Radium Codec and Lame

Corrado · 10th December 2001, 11:00

Hi,

I currently use LAME 3.89b to encode VBR MP3 audio for my DivX AVIs.

Somebody suggested me (in the player forum) to use Radium MP3 codec to improve audio quality, because in WMP6.4 the audio isn't so good (while it plays very well in WMP7.1 and I don't know why there's this difference).

I already have the Radium codec installed.

Is it possible (and useful) to encode with Radium codec or does Lame use only its internal routines for the purpose?

Do I have to use Radium codec for the playback and, if yes, how can I force it (I have different MP3 codecs installed, also the Fraunhofer standard). Is it a matter of priority in control panel | multimedia?

TIA
Corrado

pacohaas · 10th December 2001, 19:20

if you want to increase quality you could go with the latest lame build which is getting very close to being released as a "stable" version.

MaTTeR · 10th December 2001, 22:04

I'd have to agree with pacohaas here. LAME hands down is the way to go if your looking for quality. Do the listening test and you to will see the light as I did

LigH · 12th December 2001, 10:27

You say you have different codecs installed... you mean more than one ACM codec for the same audio format? Then you may get a big problem: Windows will then always chose the same codec for compression or decompression. I think it may be possible to prefer one ACM codec over another by setting up its priority in the "Audio codecs" treeview branch of the "Sound and Multimedia" control panel. But I would suggest you to use the standalone CLI version of LAME for encoding, instead of using the ACM.

A similar setup problem may be for the DirectShow decoder filters - the "Moonlight Odio Dekoda" from Elecard might bring better quality (because it uses the MAD library, as sfist2_2 recently found out - read this thread). But this may require to unregister the Fraunhofer filter first; I'm not sure how to prefer DS filters which are made for the same purpose, for that you might need a manual filter graph definition like in ZoomPlayer.

Corrado · 12th December 2001, 11:06

Quote:

Originally posted by LigH
I think it may be possible to prefer one ACM codec over another by setting up its priority in the "Audio codecs" treeview branch of the "Sound and Multimedia" control panel.

Nope

I set the Fraunhofer Pro codec to top priority, followed by the Fraunhofer advanced, but WMP6.4 still uses a third one (that's marked as "DirectDraw filter" while the others aren't)

Quote:

But I would suggest you to use the standalone CLI version of LAME for encoding, instead of using the ACM.

That's why I do usually, encoding with lame from AzidLameGUI. If I use VirtualDub, I can select the codec I want (usually the Fraunhofer Pro).

Quote:

the "Moonlight Odio Dekoda" from Elecard might bring better quality (because it uses the MAD library, as sfist2_2 recently found out - read this thread). But this may require to unregister the Fraunhofer filter first; I'm not sure how to prefer DS filters which are made for the same purpose, for that you might need a manual filter graph definition like in ZoomPlayer.

Thanks, I've seen the thread (and already posted in it

). I'm also trying to figure out how to set-up the new zoom player to use a specified codec (it seems quite complex...)

Corrado

LigH · 12th December 2001, 11:27

ACM codecs and DirectShow filters are different technologies.

ACM was already used in Windows 3; it is a technology to store compressed audio in RIFF media files (like AVI and WAVE). To create a compressed audio from an uncompressed PCM waveform (in VDub or audio editors), an ACM encoder is used. To play such a file with older AVI players or load WAVE files into audio editors, an ACM decoder is used. These files are located in the SYSTEM directory, have file extensions like *.ACM or *.DLL and are sometimes still listed in the SYSTEM.INI for 16bit compatibility.

Modern media players use DirectShow filters, they support accelerated hardware. Such files have the extension *.AX and must be registered with REGSVR32.EXE - you can't find them in the "Sound and Multimedia" control panel.

So you have both the Pro and Advanced versions of the Fraunhofer codec - that's no problem; one can encode with more than 56 kbps, the other won't. If you had installed the LAME ACM codec as well, then it would depend on the priority if the LAME or the Fraunhofer codec is used for encoding e.g. in VDub. But the playback in modern media players will still prefer a DirectShow filter.

Now I'm still curious: If you have more than one DS filter for MP3 playback (e.g. Fraunhofer, LAME, and Odio Dekoda), how can I set up which one is to be used for media playback? Would I need to unregister the others? Does anyone know this?

Corrado · 12th December 2001, 12:48

Quote:

Originally posted by LigH
ACM codecs and DirectShow filters are different technologies.

Ok, now I understood, had some suspect of this difference when I saw "DirectDraw" on the MPEG decoder properties in WMP6.4, but you clarified the point, thanks.

Quote:

Now I'm still curious: If you have more than one DS filter for MP3 playback (e.g. Fraunhofer, LAME, and Odio Dekoda), how can I set up which one is to be used for media playback? Would I need to unregister the others? Does anyone know this?

Now, this is the right question

I know how to control compression and ACM codecs, but don't know how to select the DirectShow filter. I think I'll make a trip into my registry to find it out...

Corrado

Rhaegar Targaryen · 12th December 2001, 16:40

the so-called "radium" codec is outdated and outmoded by today's standards. even last year's immensely popular LAME 3.87b was superior to the one in the radium release.

haven't played yet with the latest FhG Pro VBR codecs (is that the one thats available as a CEP plug-in?) so I cant say for sure about that.

LigH · 13th December 2001, 09:02

Yes, the newer Fraunhofer Encoder (version 3, if you want to continue the L3Enc numbering) is available e.g. as CEP plugin, also in other wave editors, or as MP3 plugin for Nero 5.0.x (5.5.x now has Thompson mp3Pro, too).

Fraunhofer was known to have "a good hand at" encoding to very low bitrates with acceptable quality, compared to many other MP3 codecs, but LAME is getting closer, e.g. with --nspsytune. A final decision would require a listening test, though...

10th December 2001, 11:00	#1 \| Link
Corrado Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 82	Radium Codec and Lame Hi, I currently use LAME 3.89b to encode VBR MP3 audio for my DivX AVIs. Somebody suggested me (in the player forum) to use Radium MP3 codec to improve audio quality, because in WMP6.4 the audio isn't so good (while it plays very well in WMP7.1 and I don't know why there's this difference). I already have the Radium codec installed. Is it possible (and useful) to encode with Radium codec or does Lame use only its internal routines for the purpose? Do I have to use Radium codec for the playback and, if yes, how can I force it (I have different MP3 codecs installed, also the Fraunhofer standard). Is it a matter of priority in control panel \| multimedia? TIA Corrado

10th December 2001, 19:20	#2 \| Link
pacohaas Audio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 699	if you want to increase quality you could go with the latest lame build which is getting very close to being released as a "stable" version. __________________ {-n24-} The Old Fair Use Homepage

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10th December 2001, 22:04	#3 \| Link
MaTTeR AC3 5.1 Addict Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Big Blue Nation_USA Posts: 2,036	I'd have to agree with pacohaas here. LAME hands down is the way to go if your looking for quality. Do the listening test and you to will see the light as I did

12th December 2001, 10:27	#4 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, Gardelegen Posts: 1,464	You say you have different codecs installed... you mean more than one ACM codec for the same audio format? Then you may get a big problem: Windows will then always chose the same codec for compression or decompression. I think it may be possible to prefer one ACM codec over another by setting up its priority in the "Audio codecs" treeview branch of the "Sound and Multimedia" control panel. But I would suggest you to use the standalone CLI version of LAME for encoding, instead of using the ACM. A similar setup problem may be for the DirectShow decoder filters - the "Moonlight Odio Dekoda" from Elecard might bring better quality (because it uses the MAD library, as sfist2_2 recently found out - read this thread). But this may require to unregister the Fraunhofer filter first; I'm not sure how to prefer DS filters which are made for the same purpose, for that you might need a manual filter graph definition like in ZoomPlayer.

12th December 2001, 11:27	#6 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, Gardelegen Posts: 1,464	ACM codecs and DirectShow filters are different technologies. ACM was already used in Windows 3; it is a technology to store compressed audio in RIFF media files (like AVI and WAVE). To create a compressed audio from an uncompressed PCM waveform (in VDub or audio editors), an ACM encoder is used. To play such a file with older AVI players or load WAVE files into audio editors, an ACM decoder is used. These files are located in the SYSTEM directory, have file extensions like .ACM or .DLL and are sometimes still listed in the SYSTEM.INI for 16bit compatibility. Modern media players use DirectShow filters, they support accelerated hardware. Such files have the extension *.AX and must be registered with REGSVR32.EXE - you can't find them in the "Sound and Multimedia" control panel. So you have both the Pro and Advanced versions of the Fraunhofer codec - that's no problem; one can encode with more than 56 kbps, the other won't. If you had installed the LAME ACM codec as well, then it would depend on the priority if the LAME or the Fraunhofer codec is used for encoding e.g. in VDub. But the playback in modern media players will still prefer a DirectShow filter. Now I'm still curious: If you have more than one DS filter for MP3 playback (e.g. Fraunhofer, LAME, and Odio Dekoda), how can I set up which one is to be used for media playback? Would I need to unregister the others? Does anyone know this?

12th December 2001, 16:40	#8 \| Link
Rhaegar Targaryen Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 46	the so-called "radium" codec is outdated and outmoded by today's standards. even last year's immensely popular LAME 3.87b was superior to the one in the radium release. haven't played yet with the latest FhG Pro VBR codecs (is that the one thats available as a CEP plug-in?) so I cant say for sure about that.

13th December 2001, 09:02	#9 \| Link
LigH German doom9/Gleitz SuMo Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Germany, Gardelegen Posts: 1,464	Yes, the newer Fraunhofer Encoder (version 3, if you want to continue the L3Enc numbering) is available e.g. as CEP plugin, also in other wave editors, or as MP3 plugin for Nero 5.0.x (5.5.x now has Thompson mp3Pro, too). Fraunhofer was known to have "a good hand at" encoding to very low bitrates with acceptable quality, compared to many other MP3 codecs, but LAME is getting closer, e.g. with --nspsytune. A final decision would require a listening test, though...