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Old 13th February 2006, 23:53   #21  |  Link
ursamtl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfsn
I have changed the the sampling rate to 44.1 kHz but now when I open the file it looks like an ordinary PCM audio file with the same amplitude/frequency modulations as the original stereo files. Instead, shouldn't I expect to see bursts of data separated by spaces (zeros) when I visualize the file?
Unless you stretched the data out tremendously in the app you're using to view it, no you shouldn't see spaces. How does the file sound when you play it back?
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Old 14th February 2006, 16:22   #22  |  Link
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AC3 encoder problem

I'm definitely able to create all three WAV files FLFR, CLFE, SLSR in 32-bit floating-point and play them without any problem. Then I run wavewizard on these files and it indicates a successful conversion, generating the merged WAV file.

However, when I open the logging window from the Conversion Batcher checkbox and display the "Jobs log", I get the following message:

Starting CB
***** Starting ac3 encoder dll *****

***** ac3enc.dll is missing or invallid, skipping current job *****


I am using the ac3enc.dll that came with BeSweet and I just copied it into the ..\WAVEWIZARDV0.54B\CONVERSIONBATCHER subdirectory. Any idea why this is happening?

Thanks.
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Old 14th February 2006, 17:34   #23  |  Link
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Did you set up the path to ac3enc.dll in wavewizard's configuration?
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Old 15th February 2006, 16:10   #24  |  Link
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AC3 encoding successful!!!!

Hey,

I was finally able to encode the 5.1 WAV file from 6 WAV files using BeSweetv1.5b31 with BeLight-0.22beta9 GUI and it worked painlessly. It's very nice too.

I did set up the path to ac3enc.dll correctly in the Wavewizard configuration but I think my old ac3enc.dll had a problem so I just decided to reinstall everything from scratch.

I'm now interested in finding out the formulas to extract FL, FR, C, LFE, SL, and SR channels, I basically know that C=(FL+FR)/2 gives a boost on vocals but don't isolate it totally, perhaps some extra band-pass filtering would help.

For the surround channels, SL=SR=(FL-FR) will cut the vocals out, but the result is not very clean. A 120 Hz low-pass filter for the LFE should be ok, I just don't know what to do with the FL and FR. Keeping them just like the originals doesn't make much sense to me.

Anyway, if someone knows of any good literature on this subject, it would be very helpful.

Thanks a lot.
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Old 15th February 2006, 19:53   #25  |  Link
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I'm glad you got it working. It can be a really cool feeling to get these conversions working and discover all the sound information that's seemingly "hidden" in a stereo mix.

As for the formulas, there are no exact rules, but many stereo to surround conversions are based on some sort of manipulation of the sum and difference signals in the stereo signal. In V.I and its related plugins, the formulas are a bit more complex: over 300 connections among software modules, a dozen virtual speaker positions superimposed over an ITU 5.1 layout, bandpass filtering plus phase inversion for Movie Mode, 60Hz lowpass filtering for the LFE channel, and some other stuff.

If you want some references, check the "General Reading and Information" part of the Additional resources section of the guide list. There are some really good resources there. Certainly the Sursound mailing list is a wealth of information.

Enjoy!
Steve.
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Old 16th February 2006, 07:12   #26  |  Link
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Quote:
I am using the ac3enc.dll that came with BeSweet and I just copied it into the ..\WAVEWIZARDV0.54B\CONVERSIONBATCHER subdirectory. Any idea why this is happening?
wrong version
see wavewizard thread or follow the links at needfulthings
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Last edited by daphy; 20th January 2009 at 10:25.
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Old 16th February 2006, 13:38   #27  |  Link
aichan
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nice guide, stereo to surround for free..
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Old 27th February 2006, 19:59   #28  |  Link
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i think there must be a fault somewhere in the final ac3 encoding
the sound channels have the woring order and cant be re mapped.
And the settings for the ac3.dll cant be changed...
I ended up with converting the audio into 6 mono channels and do the final encodning with besweet....

stars....
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Old 28th February 2006, 00:08   #29  |  Link
ursamtl
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You're right. However, if you use wavewizard with the correct configurations for ac3enc.dll, it should take care of that for you.
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Old 28th February 2006, 18:00   #30  |  Link
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"I am using the ac3enc.dll that came with BeSweet and I just copied it into the ..\WAVEWIZARDV0.54B\CONVERSIONBATCHER subdirectory. Any idea why this is happening?"

Wavewizard is only tested with ONE version of ac3enc. I also have had problems once with ac3enc which was supplied with a particular version of headac3he which somehow did not work. I asked DA and he gave me a newer version which can be downloaded from the ww thread here on doom9.

I know it would be more easy if the ac3enc was downloadable from within CB but for a couple of reasons i cant do it unfortunatly. Once i get the okay from DA i willl host it myself immediately.
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Old 28th February 2006, 18:05   #31  |  Link
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http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...0&postcount=49

link to the ac3enc
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Old 28th February 2006, 20:03   #32  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursamtl
You're right. However, if you use wavewizard with the correct configurations for ac3enc.dll, it should take care of that for you.

do you the mean the options in the channel mapping menu..

i will config for ac3enc and give it a try....

stars.....
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Old 1st March 2006, 04:23   #33  |  Link
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@ursamtl
I think your method to encode with WaveWizard-ac3enc need this correction:

4. Choose Conversion Batcher from the Edit menu and uncheck Sends Jobs to Batcher.

5. Click the Convert button to obtain a wav 6 channels Surround test 4 fLfR_Merge.wav (with channels in correct wav order).

6. Clear_List and load the wav 6 Surround test 4 fLfR_Merge.wav. Now you need:
- Edit menu Channel Mapping, select ac3 order for SoftEncode or ac3enc
- Edit menu Preferences, check Enable Channelmapping and uncheck Stream manipulation.
-Edit menu Conversion Batcher and check Sends Jobs to Batcher and Start batcher when finished.

7. Click the Convert button to obtain the encoded ac3.

@Johnman
Seems that Stream manipulation and Channelmapping don't work together, the merged file in pass 5 is always in correct wav order with Channel mapping enabled or disabled.
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Old 2nd March 2006, 01:24   #34  |  Link
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tebasuna51,

Thanks for the feedback. I'll check it out but I did test the guide as it's written and the resulting surround files all had the same correct channel order as well. You might double-check your settings from the beginning, perhaps there's something you did differently earlier on that made it necessary for you to modify the method at the end to get good results.

Regards,
Steve.
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Old 2nd March 2006, 02:15   #35  |  Link
tebasuna51
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@ursamtl
If you load into WaweWizard:
Test_fLfR.wav
Test_CLFE.wav
Test_sLsR.wav
when you click Convert, WaveWizard make a intermediate wav 6 file with correct wav order FL_FR_C_LFE_SL_SR, and is send to ac3enc, but ac3enc need a wav ordered FL_C_FR_SL_SR_LFE then only the FL channel is in the correct place.

Maybe Johnman can confirm you this issue.
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Old 3rd March 2006, 01:02   #36  |  Link
ursamtl
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Ok, thanks for bringing this up tebasuna51. In fact, after testing this evening, I discovered that I had forgotten to add the step about enabling channelmapping to my guide. Do not disable sending the jobs tro the batcher as you suggest. Simply choose Channel mapping (F2) from the Edit menu. Be sure that the box for "6 -> 6 Softencode and ac3enc" is checked as well as the box for "Enable channelmapping." This ensures the final ac3 file will have the right channel order. I tested this with three stereo waves loaded into ww in the ITU 5.1 order (fLfR, CLFE, sLsR) and the resulting ac3enc-encoded ac3 file had the right channel order when I played it back through a 5.1 system. I've edited the guide and added a new screen grab.

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
Steve.
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Old 3rd March 2006, 02:24   #37  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursamtl
Simply choose Channel mapping (F2) from the Edit menu. Be sure that the box for "6 -> 6 Softencode and ac3enc" is checked as well as the box for "Enable channelmapping." This ensures the final ac3 file will have the right channel order.
Yes, I tried this first time, but don't work for me.

In my previous post I say to Johnman:
"Seems that Stream manipulation and Channelmapping don't work together, the merged file in pass 5 is always in correct wav order with Channel mapping enabled or disabled."

For that I think we need 2 pass, first generate the wav 6 (always in correct wav order), and after open this wav 6, apply the remapping and encode.

Sorry.
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Old 3rd March 2006, 13:45   #38  |  Link
ursamtl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tebasuna51
Yes, I tried this first time, but don't work for me.

In my previous post I say to Johnman:
"Seems that Stream manipulation and Channelmapping don't work together, the merged file in pass 5 is always in correct wav order with Channel mapping enabled or disabled."

For that I think we need 2 pass, first generate the wav 6 (always in correct wav order), and after open this wav 6, apply the remapping and encode.

Sorry.
2 passes is exactly what it does for me. First it create the merged file, then it sends it to Conversion Batcher.; If you set it up the way I explain in the guide, you will end up with a correctly encoded AC3 file.

Perhaps the problem is that you are looking at the merged file and expecting it to be in the remapped order. It is not. Only when it gets passed to the encoder does the channel remapping take place. If you take the merged file and try to encode it yourself manually, you will end up with the wrong channel order in your AC3s. If you let ww take care of it for you, it will do the necessary remapping. This is one reason why I like johnman's wavewizard so much. I've used it on quite a few projects and it has never let me down!

Keep trying!
Steve.
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Old 5th March 2006, 12:25   #39  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ursamtl
Perhaps the problem is that you are looking at the merged file and expecting it to be in the remapped order. It is not. Only when it gets passed to the encoder does the channel remapping take place. If you take the merged file and try to encode it yourself manually, you will end up with the wrong channel order in your AC3s. If you let ww take care of it for you, it will do the necessary remapping. This is one reason why I like johnman's wavewizard so much. I've used it on quite a few projects and it has never let me down!
Yes, I like wavewizard so much too. The remapping function "6 -> 6 ac3 order for SoftEncode or ac3enc" (and other issues about SoftEncode) is my very little contribution to Johnman's project.

But, seems you don't understand the wavewizard behavior . Wavewizard don't work sending to ac3enc the wav file in pipe mode, need always a intermediate wav file to send to encoder. And, if the last merged file is in wav order, the ac3 output is wrong mapped.

I know work in pipe mode is in Johnman's mind, but AFAIK the last beta version 0.54b don't still work so. I test this (including the last ac3enc.dll from this post) with a channel_test and can confirm you: if the last wav is not ordered FL_C_FR_SL_SR_LFE, the ac3 output is wrong mapped.

In order to avoid disk usage (the two wav6 32bit can be really big) I can propose another method using BeHappy (pipe mode) to encode the three wav (lFlR, CLFE and sLsR) to ac3 with the free encoder ffmpeg (equivalent to ac3enc).

I know, is not a easy way because BeHappy is in developing stage, but can be useful for somebody:

Software required
- Avisynth 2.5.6a installed.
- BeHappy: Download last version and unzip to a folder at your choice.
- ffmpeg: Unzip ffmpeg.exe to BeHappy folder.
- ffdshow installed and properly configurated: Audio Decoder -> Codecs -> Uncompressed -> All supported (to open 32bit float from avisynth with DirectShowSource). Check also filters and output configuration.
- AvsSource.extension: You need create a new file in BeHappy folder with the name "AvsSource.extension" and content (copy and paste to Notepad for instance):
Code:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<BeHappy.Extension xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns="http://workspaces.gotdotnet.com/behappy">
  <AudioSource Name="AvsSource" UniqueID="0aa78710-aafd-11da-a746-0800200c9a66">
    <Script>Import("{0}")</Script>
    <SupportedFileExtension>avs</SupportedFileExtension>
  </AudioSource>
</BeHappy.Extension>
For other BeHappy usage you can read Basic Help for BeHappy or BeHappy development

BeHappy usage to encode 3 stereo wav (fLfR, CLFE and sLsR) to ac3 with ffmpeg.
1) You need make a avs file, (YourName.avs) with the content (put your exact path and filenames):
Code:
flfr = DirectShowSource("g:\Test fLfR.wav")
clfe = DirectShowSource("g:\Test CLFE.wav")
slsr = DirectShowSource("g:\Test sLsR.wav")
MergeChannels(flfr, clfe, slsr)
2) Run BeHappy.exe and open (in Source section) YourName.avs. Check the source mode is "AvsSource"

3) Select the Destination method "ffmpeg AC3" and configure (Button "...") the desired bitrate. Select the Destination filename and press Add to Job Control.

4) Go to Job Control tab and press Start.

Last edited by tebasuna51; 5th March 2006 at 12:31.
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Old 5th March 2006, 16:18   #40  |  Link
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Ok thanks again for your input. You're right. The channel order was wrong when running ww with both the merging and encoding at the same time. I was using a regular 6-channel V.I-processed version of one song to test. It was difficult to really ascertain where the channels went because the ambience still seemed quite good. I did some testing this morning with completely separate songs in each channel and this way, I confirmed the channel orders. I've rewritten the guide to split the job into two passes manually. This should do the trick.

Your Avisynth, BeHappy & ffmpeg approach looks good; I'll give it a try. Another option that could work well is HeadAc3He using the latest alpha version available on daphy and @ndy's www.needfulthings.com. This includes a modified version of ac3enc.dll that seems to solve the problem with low volume that's plagued the regular ac3enc.dll that's been used with Besweet and ffmpeg. I'll try and write a guide for it sometime soon as well.

Regards,
Steve.
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