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Old 6th January 2006, 08:03   #1  |  Link
Richard Berg
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documentation help requested for new mediawiki

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki

I'd like to eventually phase out the current wiki. It's inferior in basically every way. Some features I think will be especially helpful for us:
- multiple languages of the same page
- file uploading (for images AND scripts)
- categories
- subpages (will make huge pages like the FAQ much easier to edit)
- discussion pages

This is a big undertaking, of course. If we decide to drive it to completion it will require everything from high-level doc reorganization to a logo that fits in the upper left correctly. Let me know what I can do to help. For instance, it wouldn't be too hard to write a webpage similar to http://www.richardberg.net/bin/convert.html that converts 'TaviWiki formatting to MediaWiki.

Nevertheless, there are a lot of conceptual differences in MediaWiki that don't translate directly and will influence the structure of the new site. User's Guide: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_User's_Guide

edit: Wilbert

We are looking for volunteers to port (copy and paste plus some small changes) the documentation from the old wiki on avisynth.org to our new mediawiki. If you want to help, please respond to this article.

Another thread with some info: ttp://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=105417.

edit Wilbert:

login questions + answers:
Code:
        "What does AVI stand for?" => "audio video interleaved",
        "What does CODEC stand for?" => "coder decoder",
        "What does CSS stand for?" => "content scrambling system",
        "What does DCT stand for?" => "discrete cosine transform",

Last edited by Wilbert; 7th January 2015 at 19:51.
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Old 6th January 2006, 11:15   #2  |  Link
Wilbert
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I think it would be nice. Too bad it's much work I think we just need a bunch of volunteers (say 4-6 people) who are willing to help me.
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Old 6th January 2006, 11:47   #3  |  Link
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I'm willing to help out. I had been wanting to do some reorganization anyway but never had gotten around to doing it.

BTW, is there anything different that would make it easier to keep the offline AviSynth documentation synchronized with the online wiki pages?
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Old 6th January 2006, 12:32   #4  |  Link
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I'd been wanting to make a 'Didee's scripts' section, now I can just make a category for them.

It will be so nice to have tables of contents generated automatically!

If you want I have several eye-pleasing themes. (Not mine, culled from mediawiki's site mostly and modified for mine.) Or I could throw something together matching the current documentation's style, but I was hoping that would get an update from the new site rather than vice versa.

If you want my help I'll be available.
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Old 6th January 2006, 18:12   #5  |  Link
Richard Berg
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Quote:
BTW, is there anything different that would make it easier to keep the offline AviSynth documentation synchronized with the online wiki pages?
Maybe. Some ideas here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Alternative_parsers

For all I know it could be done just by clever scripting of wget. (edit) The idea would be to enumerate just the article pages, append "&printable=yes" to each, then download being sure to grab necessary CSS & images.

Quote:
If you want I have several eye-pleasing themes...
Sounds nice. Anywhere we can preview them?

----

Note: in addition to images, I've enabled "avs" "avsi" and "dll" as valid extensions for file uploads. I may need to restrict this permission to certain people in the future, but for now it's wide open. Speaking of which, once I configure the permissions model, Wilbert won't need to ask me every time a link in the left frame needs to be updated

Last edited by Richard Berg; 6th January 2006 at 18:29.
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Old 11th January 2006, 13:52   #6  |  Link
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Wilbert,

Can I ask how you are thinking of going about things? Is the idea to move all the old content and then start editing, or to use it as source material in creating something a bit better organised? Is it okay to add things to the new Wiki, or should that wait till more framework is in place? Is it okay to start discussion page(s)?

I don't have any experience with Wikis. In principle I'd like to help, but I'm not sure how much use I'll be. I don't have a keyboard and everything is done through speech recognition; maybe it'll work fine with Wikiing, maybe not... I'd have to play with it for several hours to tell.
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Old 11th January 2006, 21:28   #7  |  Link
Wilbert
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I propose we discuss about a possible reorganization first. I would like to hear the ideas that stickboy has. Perhaps other people have ideas too. After that we can divide the work and start copy-paste-and-correct-it Perhaps using one of Richard's parsers is easier, but i didn't look at that yet.

@mg262,
Quote:
I don't have a keyboard and everything is done through speech recognition
Really? That's incredible. If you can code this way, and think you can also edit wikis this way Of course you can just try and see.
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Old 11th January 2006, 22:17   #8  |  Link
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I'd definitely like to try. Is it okay if I try to create a page (maybe my user page) and play with it?

Thoughts...

It would be nice to have a page for each category of filters... e.g. Denoisers, Deinterlacers, Inverse Telecine Filters, Derainbowing Filters, Sharpeners. (IMO, the idea of including both scripts and filters is great... but I'll use the word filter for simplicity.) They could include a description of the nature of that kind of filter, small before/after pictures, a comprehensive list of filters of that type, and maybe a short discussion of the kind of artefacts that can arise from the filter. We could also organise filters by author, but that seems less pressing. Then a main 'Filters' page could link to the summary pages for each category?

I would say the FAQ contains too much in its current format. Better to move as much information as possible to pages with descriptive names... including the suggestion above, but also e.g. a page on YV12, a page on audio, a page on colourspaces, etc.
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Old 12th January 2006, 01:16   #9  |  Link
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if you need help send me e-mail or pm, mail better

bye
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Old 12th January 2006, 02:07   #10  |  Link
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I'm torn on whether to use categories or not. On the one hand, you don't have to bother keeping separate pages in sync with any new stuff you add, but on the other hand, category implementation is kind of lame (3-column format only, no descriptive text). In the end lists like we have now is probably a better way to go, although if we do try to catch up and add more filters/scripts the filter categories will definitely deserve their own page.

Clouded, you can always write the page and add formatting in another mode, or have someone else do it. Twiddling is easy, it's the content-writing that's tough. (But would that mean no more weekly new filter releases? Oh, the horror! xD)

Richard, do you have any protection against spam-bots? I don't know if mediawiki has any specialized plugins enabled. Oh, and I totally missed your question on the skins, so sorry! Meta skins has quite a few, that one links to my favorite (Fratman, although the 1.5 version is more "sanitized" into mediawiki's logo & colors). But there's other neat ones in there as well.

Ugh, I've got to clear my head so I can conentrate.
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Old 12th January 2006, 12:50   #11  |  Link
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Could we have both categories and pages with lists? So that e.g. there would be a category Denoisers, a manually written page on Denoisers, and an automatically generated page List of Denoisers. The two pages could link to each other appropriately.

I just found an example here... Category:Cultural movements contains the text

Quote:
A cultural movement is a change in the way a number of different disciplines approach their work. This embodies all art forms, the sciences, and philosophies.

The main article for this category is Cultural movements.
followed by an automatically generated list.

Edit:
foxyshadis,
other way round... I needed to relearn to code this way and for sanity's sake I needed a domain where a very short program could have a satisfying effect (small effort, big reward ). That's why I started coding AVISynth filters in the first place. But it's counterintuitive... C++ keywords (for, class, template) and STL types and methods (vector, map, iterator, begin) are English words, and the main punctuation symbols (brackets and semicolons) occur frequently in English text. Raw HTML, containing things like "</p>" is extremely hard to write. But I can definitely manage continuous prose!
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Last edited by mg262; 12th January 2006 at 16:01.
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Old 12th January 2006, 23:20   #12  |  Link
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I copy and pasted the main page to get started. Perhaps it's better to keep some of the discussion here, so that all people can give their input?

@mg262,

I'm not convinced categories are that useful. Consider the (possible) category plugins for example. Sure it's nice that lists can be automatically generated, but i think it's better if the names are accompanied by a short description (just as in the off line documentation). I'm not completely sure, but i think that's not possible in that case.

Last edited by Wilbert; 12th January 2006 at 23:23.
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Old 12th January 2006, 23:33   #13  |  Link
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I'm not attached to the auto generated lists at all... actually I forgot they existed until I read foxyshadis's post. What I was originally suggesting/asking for was that we have a manually written page for each kind of filter (e.g. Denoisers) rather than having one huge list as in the current Wiki.

[Looking back, I rather unfortunately wrote this: "It would be nice to have a page for each category of filters..." without realising the word category had a technical meaning... I just meant kind/type/etc.]
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Old 12th January 2006, 23:39   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
I'm not attached to the auto generated lists at all... actually I forgot they existed until I read foxyshadis's post. What I was originally suggesting/asking for was that we have a manually written page for each kind of filter (e.g. Denoisers) rather than having one huge list as in the current Wiki.
Yes, i agree. We should remove for example the external plugins from the faq (idem for the utilities), use the existing types (make/add new ones if necessary) and move them to separate pages. Just as in the offline documentation.
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Old 12th January 2006, 23:59   #15  |  Link
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Sounds good! I just looked at the categories in the docs... here they are for convenience:

General info
Deinterlacing & Pulldown Removal
Spatio-Temporal Smoothers
Spatial Smoothers
Temporal Smoothers
Sharpen/Soften
Resizers
Subtitle (source)
MPEG Decoder (source)
Audio Decoder (source)
Compare video quality
Broadcast Video
Misc Plugins

I think we'll probably need quite a few more categories, especially of filters designed to remove particular artefacts (e.g. spots/scratches, rainbows). I was thinking that when I had a bit of time I might grab the list of filters on WarpEnterprises and try and classify them? Incidentally, I don't know what the difference between denoisers, smoothers and softeners is (and Sharpen/Soften contains no softeners!)... if there is one, could someone please enlighten me? (Interesting related discussion)

Also, IMO it would be better to redesign the main page completely rather than trying to make incremental changes to this one... but I guess that even if everyone agrees with me it would make sense to leave that until we have a better idea of the overall organisation.

Is there an easy way to get a list of pages on the old site?
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Old 13th January 2006, 00:15   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Berg
a logo that fits in the upper left correctly.
Well its a start
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Old 13th January 2006, 00:51   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
Is there an easy way to get a list of pages on the old site?
There's a macro that can be used for this. Here, I'll put one up: http://www.avisynth.org/AllPages
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Old 13th January 2006, 01:02   #18  |  Link
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Old 13th January 2006, 01:24   #19  |  Link
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Here's how the Anime folks posted their AviSynth scripts on their Wiki.

http://www.amvwiki.org/index.php/Cat...ISynth_Scripts

http://www.amvwiki.org/index.php/Ple...%21_Processing
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Old 13th January 2006, 23:33   #20  |  Link
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I need some help

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Internal_filters

lists filters in different types. One such filter is Blur:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Blur

Making the category 'Internal filters' (adding: [[Category:Internal filters]] to all filter descriptions) a category is made with all filters (sorted on alphabet):

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wi...ternal_filters

Ok, good. The problem is Sharpen and Blur are on the same page. So, I thought let's make a redirect from Sharpen to Blur:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wiki/Sharpen

But Sharpen is still not listed in the Category page:

http://www.avisynth.org/mediawiki/wi...ternal_filters

Is this solvable?
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