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Old 9th February 2017, 14:18   #1  |  Link
tablerocker
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Lame XP 4.14: Single improvement of german translation

Sorry, german board down, don't know where to post.

The buttons add, delete and clear are translated as hinzufügen, entfernen and löschen.

This is very misleading for beginners, as delete actually means löschen and löschen sounds a lot like moving the files into the trash.

A better solution would be using "leeren" for "clear".

Last edited by tablerocker; 19th February 2017 at 00:59. Reason: title edited
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Old 9th February 2017, 14:42   #2  |  Link
Groucho2004
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablerocker View Post
Sorry, german board down, don't know where to post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tablerocker View Post
The buttons add, delete and clear are translated as hinzufügen, entfernen and löschen.
What buttons?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tablerocker View Post
The buttons add, delete and clear are translated as hinzufügen, entfernen and löschen.
According to the Microsoft glossary which is commonly used as a standard, the translations should be:
Code:
Add - Hinzufügen
Delete - Löschen
Clear - Aufheben, Löschen, Deaktivieren (depending on context)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablerocker View Post
A better solution would be using "leeren" for "clear".
No.
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Old 10th February 2017, 17:50   #3  |  Link
tablerocker
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What buttons?
Ok sorry I was not exact enough. We're talking about Lame XP Version 4.14 Final-1 Build 1934.
I tested it and the buttons are actually called "Add File(s)" "Remove" and "Clear" at the bottom of the "Source Files" tab in the english version.

The complain is only about the translation of the "Clear" button.

The functionality of the button "Clear" is exactly like "Remove", but for all files. So "Remove all" would also be appropiate.
Accordingly in german "Entfernen" and "Alle entfernen" would fit.

Now "Alle entfernen" is a bit long. As alternative translation "Leeren" would be ok. It is comparable to the english "Clear" in the meaning of "to empty".

I don't know if you are a german native speaker, but "Löschen" is definitive a wrong translation in this context, as "Löschen" always means something like "remove it from your harddisk" if you're speaking about computer files. It is stronger than "Entfernen". Yes, they often can be interchanged (e.g. clear cache - which actually deletes files), but in this context it is confusing. I was always hesitating to use that button because of unclear functionality.


By the way it is inconsistent anyway. If you click the File menu, the menu item with the same functionality as the "Clear" button has another icon and is named "Clear all". Why not the same?


Summary:
1. Rename "Löschen" to either "Leeren" or "Alle entfernen"
2. Rename the corresponding file menu item exactly the same and give them the same icons.


Greets,
tablerocker


p.s.: If you look at the suggested translations from the Microsoft Glossary and translate them back, they all do not fit here:
Aufheben - unset
Löschen - delete
Deaktivieren - deactivate
If you're really into this Glossary you may name it "Alle aufheben". But honestly, would you name it "unset all" in english?

p.p.s.: If that's not enough, look at the translations for the verb "clear". The first one (=most used) fitting in the right meaning in the sense of "to empty" is the german "Leeren".

Last edited by tablerocker; 10th February 2017 at 17:55. Reason: Added Info
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Old 10th February 2017, 18:14   #4  |  Link
Groucho2004
 
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I'm not going to install the software but if you post a screen shot and tell me what exactly the buttons are supposed to do I can recommend translations. However, judging from your post above I guess "Alle entfernen" would be the best match.

Alternatively, post in the correct thread and tell Mulder what you think the buttons should read.

Edit: Yes, I'm a German native and I have been working in the software localisation business for 20+ years.

Last edited by Groucho2004; 10th February 2017 at 18:17.
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Old 12th February 2017, 09:03   #5  |  Link
tablerocker
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Thanks, I would appreciate a translation recommendation from you.

Could you give me a hint where the right place to post is? I clicked through several pages and ended up here.

Screenshots are attatched, pretty self-explanatory. The clear button removes all files from the list of source files; The remove button only the ones selected.
The trashcan icon contributes to the confusion.


/edit
Regarding the right place:
You can look at the sticky thread and see that all three german links provided are not helpful.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by tablerocker; 12th February 2017 at 09:53.
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Old 12th February 2017, 11:35   #6  |  Link
Groucho2004
 
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Originally Posted by tablerocker View Post
Could you give me a hint where the right place to post is? I clicked through several pages and ended up here.
LameXP thread
Wouldn't it make more sense to post this on the German Gleitz board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tablerocker View Post
Screenshots are attatched, pretty self-explanatory. The clear button removes all files from the list of source files; The remove button only the ones selected.
It may take a while before a mod approves the attachment.
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Old 12th February 2017, 13:04   #7  |  Link
tablerocker
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Ok so here's an external Link:


for the Link to the LameXP thread. I had to choose from subforums either Development or Translations, guess what I chose instead of Development

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho2004
Wouldn't it make more sense to post this on the German Gleitz board?
Yes. But if you look at the second thread in Translations subforum it looks like it is down since 2014 and that's what I can confirm follwing the links from my last post (see edit at the bottom). Either down or different site without support/forum.
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Old 12th February 2017, 13:07   #8  |  Link
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Just posted an answer to the screenshot as image, but this apparently also causes the need of an action of a moderator. To make it faster, please take this link by now:
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4...2u964l_png.htm
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:05   #9  |  Link
LoRd_MuldeR
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tablerocker,

I just noticed your post. Please understand that a lot of different tools are discussed on Doom9 forum, so you must give at least some indication of what what tool you are referring to, especially in your thread title

As far as LameXP translations are concerned, please have a look at the translator's guide:
http://lamexp.sourceforge.net/doc/Translate.html

(BTW: I see that "Löschen" is not perfect here, but "Entfernen" is already taken and also wouldn't fit. "Aufheben" or "Deaktivieren" are clearly wrong in this context. I'm not entirely happy with "Leeren" either, but it may be the best compromise)
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Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 19th February 2017 at 00:17.
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:44   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRd_MuldeR View Post
(BTW: I see that "Löschen" is not perfect here, but "Entfernen" is already taken and also wouldn't fit. "Aufheben" or "Deaktivieren" are clearly wrong in this context. I'm not entirely happy with "Leeren" either, but it may be the best compromise)
I understand that "Remove" removes the selected item from the list and "Clear" removes all items from the list.
If this is the case, I would suggest "Entfernen" and "Alle entfernen".
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Old 19th February 2017, 00:54   #11  |  Link
tablerocker
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@Lord_Mulder
Thank you for the link, I will see if I can go through every step of that manual. It's quite a long way for just changing one word
But first I think I'll post at the german gleitz forum to discuss which solution is the best. As you can see in my summary (bold font), I prefer "Leeren" or "Alle entfernen" and getting rid of the trashcan icon.

You are absolutely right, I will edit the title. I was simply a bit confused about this forum and that all things concerning LameXP simply go into one thread. I thought "a LameXP Support Forum can't be just one thread", didn't feel right to me

@Groucho2004
As you could see, posts containing plain links also need moderation, so even the second post took a while... nevermind.
As posted before, I thought the german gleitz forum was down because of three wrong links here[/url] and a big thread about the forum being down here[/url].
In the meantime I found the new correct address.

If you are not registered to the german gleitz forum I would still appreciate your translation recommendation here. I don't want to rule over everybody and need confirmation if my opinion is right.

p.s.
Removed the links to prevent delay by moderation.

/edit
@groucho2004
Didn't see your new post. You are right about the functionality.
I also like "Alle entfernen" but it is almost 200% longer than "clear"

Last edited by tablerocker; 19th February 2017 at 00:56.
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Old 19th February 2017, 01:00   #12  |  Link
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@groucho2004
Didn't see your new post. You are right about the functionality.
I also like "Alle entfernen" but it is almost 200% longer than "clear"
There seems to be plenty of space to move things around a bit.
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Old 19th February 2017, 14:01   #13  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tablerocker View Post
Thank you for the link, I will see if I can go through every step of that manual. It's quite a long way for just changing one word
If you want to contribute translation updates, it's best to download and edit the latest translation file and then send me the updated version.

That way, things are done in an orderly fashion and I won't miss your contribution. Note that I get a lot of email every day, so I just don't have the time to answer everything and things can get lost.

Anyway, if it's really just those two strings you want to have changed, I can do it quickly for you.
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Old 20th February 2017, 20:35   #14  |  Link
tablerocker
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Anyway, if it's really just those two strings you want to have changed, I can do it quickly for you.
That would be very nice since the program looks like it already is translated 100% to german and those were the only two issues I have regarding translation.

Maybe you just change it to whatever you like better - "Alle entfernen" or "Leeren". You are the Lord
- If you do so, please leave a note here, then I won't start a discussion at the german gleitz forum.
"Alle entfernen" is long but Groucho2004 recommended it and he seems to have lots of experience in translating programs.
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Old 20th February 2017, 22:06   #15  |  Link
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That would be very nice since the program looks like it already is translated 100% to german and those were the only two issues I have regarding translation.
So, here we go:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/lam...2.exe/download
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Old 20th February 2017, 23:09   #16  |  Link
tablerocker
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Thank you, looks much better!

Although there is still some inconsistency left:
File --> Clear all
has the same functionality like the Clear button
and should be named exactly the same (also in the german translation).

Another point is the icon, they should also be the same for the button and in the file menu. By now one has a bomb and one a trashcan. I think they are both not optimal, a bit more intuitive would be the red minus of the "remove" button as a stacked, slightly shifted version. Or simply three minuses in one red circle. See my suggestions in the attachment.
But that's another problem, I am already happy with the new translation.
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