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Old 19th November 2008, 06:03   #1  |  Link
DrinkLyeAndDie
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Regarding AnyDVD AI technology versus other rippers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_Undone View Post
Is MKBv9 Handled by Slysoft???
Yes, AnyDVD HD has handled MKBv9 since v6.4.6.5 (September 3, 2008).

Last edited by DrinkLyeAndDie; 19th November 2008 at 06:06.
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Old 19th November 2008, 08:42   #2  |  Link
setarip_old
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(I know AnyDVD is a "favorite" here - I'm just trying to make an unbiased comparison)

From the AnyDVD History:
Quote:
AnyDVD History
6.4.8.5 2008 11 16
- New: Added option to enable/disable creation of .dvd file to image ripper
- New (DVD): Added support for new protections
Does this refer to the specific protection of the "WALL-E" DVDs? If so, I would once again question the true Artificial Intelligence of the AnyDVD "A.I." engine vis-a-vis that of DVDFab HD Decrypter's "PathPlayer" Artificial Intelligence engine. After all, I used a version of DVDFab HD Decrypter released way back in April to make a good rip of this DVD...

Last edited by setarip_old; 21st November 2008 at 03:34. Reason: Changed "Pathfinder" to "Path Player"
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Old 20th November 2008, 22:07   #3  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
(I know AnyDVD is a "favorite" here - I'm just trying to make an unbiased comparison)

From the AnyDVD Historyoes this refer to the specific protection of the "WALL-E" DVDs? If so, I would once again question the true Artificial Intelligence of the AnyDVD "A.I." engine vis-a-vis that of DVDFab HD Decrypter's "Pathfinder" Artificial Intelligence engine. After all, I used a version of DVDFab HD Decrypter released way back in April to make a good rip of this DVD...
Are you claiming that there has been no improvement to the "AI" in DVDFab HD Decrypter since it was first introduced? That the "AI" from the very first version can handle any and all titles? Then why release updates if that's the case? I seem to recall reading that the latest beta seems to have an issue with this particular disc in Clone mode. That would appear to be a bug. As Peer said the last time you made this "unbiased" comparison, bugs do happen from time to time. NO software product ever written is immune from that. That most definitely includes DVDFab HD Decrypter and AnyDVD both.
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Old 21st November 2008, 00:23   #4  |  Link
setarip_old
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@SamuriHL

Hi!
Quote:
Then why release updates if that's the case?
With regard to DVDFab HD Decrypter, from what I saw, the "update" to v.5.0 was intended to bring users closer to having to buy the "full" version ("Platinum", I believe)

I find it humorous that you put the word "unbiased" in quotes, as I've never been (and likely, never will be) a supporter of the publisher of the DVDFab Decrypter programs.

My approach to ripping standard DVDs has been and continues to be - If a program I'm using continues to successfully rip DVDs, I continue to use it WITHOUT updates, thereby avoiding the possibility of any newly introduce bugs. That's precisely why I never updated "RipIt4Me" past v.1.6.4, well past the program's being "shut down".

Similarly, that's why I continue to use v.4120 of (freeware) DVDFabHD Decrypter - and have no way of knowing of any problems regarding "Clone mode", which is not an available function/feature of the freeware program (Only the payware "Platinum" version)...
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Old 21st November 2008, 00:31   #5  |  Link
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I think we have very different philosophies on this one then. I don't see updates as a bad thing. Updates tend to improve a product over time. Would you, if you were a windows user for example, forgo windows updates and service packs under the same principle that it could introduce new bugs? I don't find that concept to be overly valid, but, that's simply a matter of opinion I guess. The fact remains that DVDFab HD Decrypter, RipItForMe, and AnyDVD all have their pros and cons. And not one of them is without bugs. What matters more to me is whether those bugs get fixed in a timely fashion. I'm assuming they probably do with DVDFab HD Decrypter...I don't really know as I don't keep up with it these days. I do know that Slysoft updates AnyDVD when necessary and the updates are usually very timely. If you're happy using an older version of a product, that's fine with me. But there's going to come a time when it fails on some disc or another and at that point you'll have to decide whether to update or not. As for me, I'd rather just keep current knowing that any bugs that do crop up will be fixed quickly.
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Old 21st November 2008, 00:50   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
But there's going to come a time when it fails on some disc or another and at that point you'll have to decide whether to update or not.
Yes - But, as I've now stated several times previously, that time has not yet come regarding the April 2008 release of the freeware ripper DVDFab HD Decrypter...

BTW - You'll notice that, regarding "WALL-E", I was not able to report successful ripping by what IS my favorite (payware) one-click program, DVD95Copy Pro - because the most recent version (and all previous versions, as well) can't successfully rip it. So, just like AnyDVD was apparently "hardwire"modified, I guess DVD95CopyPro will need another "plugin" (which obviously has nothing to do with adaptable, self-changing, Artificial Intelligence) to deal with this latest version of Disney's copy protection. I can only speculate that, based on its continued success, the Artificial Intelligence ("PathPlayer") in the freeware DVDFab HD Decrypter v.4120 is closer to true A.I than anything else presently available.

Last edited by setarip_old; 21st November 2008 at 03:36. Reason: Change "Pathfinder to "PathPlayer"
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Old 21st November 2008, 01:10   #7  |  Link
DrinkLyeAndDie
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setarip_old, I suggest that you reread Peer's reply to you in the Leatherheads thread because you either never understood what he wrote or you have forgotten. No one has ever claimed the A.I. Scanner was self-changing other than you. It confuses me that you still hold onto this false belief.

Last edited by DrinkLyeAndDie; 21st November 2008 at 01:42.
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Old 21st November 2008, 02:08   #8  |  Link
SamuriHL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
Yes - But, as I've now stated several times previously, that time has not yet come regarding the April 2008 release of the freeware ripper DVDFab HD Decrypter...

BTW - You'll notice that, regarding "WALL-E", I was not able to report successful ripping by what IS my favorite (payware) one-click program, DVD95Copy Pro - because the most recent version (and all previous versions, as well) can't successfully rip it. So, just like AnyDVD was apparently "hardwire"modified, I guess DVD95CopyPro will need another "plugin" (which obviously has nothing to do with adaptable, self-changing, Artificial Intelligence) to deal with this latest version of Disney's copy protection. I can only speculate that, based on its continued success, the Artificial Intelligence ("Pathfinder") in the freeware DVDFab HD Decrypter v.4120 is closer to true A.I than anything else presently available.
I don't know the specifics, but, I don't think the fundamentals of the AI scanner have changed. But, I do believe several bugs have been fixed in this area. Usually, and again I could be wrong, it's a matter of AnyDVD detecting when to use the AI scanner, not a problem with the scanner itself. I'd be curious, for example, if the default setting was changed to "always enable" if an older version of AnyDVD would be able to deal with these new titles. Again, I don't know. But it's an interesting question. As I haven't bought a DVD in over a year, I am not really the one to answer that question. Nonetheless, I still don't see the point of sticking with potentially buggy software. Sure, it works for you, but, who's to say it hasn't been improved to be more efficient or fix hard to notice bugs (is it dropping titlesets it shouldn't be, for example? Because it falsely thinks it's an invalid titleset or whatever). It may "successfully" rip the title, but, is it a flawless rip? I don't have to question that when using the latest version of my chosen software.
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Old 21st November 2008, 02:50   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
is it a flawless rip?
Yes...
Quote:
I don't have to question that when using the latest version of my chosen software.
Not any more or less than I do...
Quote:
As I haven't bought a DVD in over a year, I am not really the one to answer that question.
Then, respectfully, you are also not the one to bring forth such a hypothesis...
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Old 21st November 2008, 02:55   #10  |  Link
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Hmmm, that's interesting. I wasn't aware that being an expert in a subject was a prerequisite for positing a theory. Clearly you must be an expert by your "log analysis" of AnyDVD's AI scanner technology and are in a much better position than I am to create a hypothesis based on....um, nothing, really. I simply posed the question as to whether or not an older version of AnyDVD with AI scanner always enabled could handle these newer discs. I didn't realize that in order to ask that question I also had to be able to also answer it.
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Old 21st November 2008, 03:14   #11  |  Link
setarip_old
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@DrinkLyeAndDye
Quote:
No one has ever claimed the A.I. Scanner was self-changing other than you.
I'd suggest to you that you are very much mistaken. By definition (The following one is from "Wikipedia"):
Quote:
Artificial intelligence (AI) is the intelligence of machines and the branch of computer science which aims to create it. Major AI textbooks define the field as "the study and design of intelligent agents,"[1] where an intelligent agent is a system that perceives its environment and takes actions which maximize its chances of success.[2] John McCarthy, who coined the term in 1956,[3] defines it as "the science and engineering of making intelligent machines."
Perhaps if an avid supporter of AnyDVD, or anyone else for that matter, could explain how an UNCHANGED 6 month-old program (DVDFab HD Decrypter v.4120)with claimed A.I. ("PathPlayer") IS apparently able to adapt a brand new protection scheme on a just-released DVD, while the very current version of another program with claimed A.I. required additional modification in order to rip the identical DVD, I'd be all ears.

The fact that you and others (SamuriHL and Wombler, etc.) are avid supporters of AnyDVD is admirable (especially since the publishers are presently the only ones with a handle on BluRay) and should ne appreciated by the publishers. Actually, I'm looking forward to the day they "go public" and make a public stock offering ;>} This doesn't, however, alter the facts.

Perhaps, I should have simply asked:

How is it possible that a 6 month old version (4120) of (freeware) DVDFab HD Decrypter is capable of perfectly and properly ripping a DVD that, at first, no other (freeware or payware) ripping program could rip? Is it possibly the only program that has a true Artificial Intelligence engine?

Last edited by setarip_old; 21st November 2008 at 03:37. Reason: Change "Pathfinder" to "PathPlayer"
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Old 21st November 2008, 03:17   #12  |  Link
setarip_old
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@SamuriHL

Your debating skills are excellent, especially with regard to setting up "straw men". Keep up the good work ;>}
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Old 21st November 2008, 03:26   #13  |  Link
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LOL I have nothing further that would be constructive that I could add to this debate so I'm going to let it go now.

I do think my question is a valid one. You say that DVDFab HD Decrypter, an old version, can rip the latest titles. Is this with PathPlayer fully enabled? (I don't know how the technology works exactly. Is it always on? Does it enable itself when an issue is found?) In AnyDVD it's not enabled unless a problem is found and then it's turned on. I think a lot of bugs have happened there. Not necessarily in the scanner itself. I'd be curious if someone with one of these later discs (Get Smart, Wall-E, etc) would be able to test a version of AnyDVD from April with AI scanner set to always on doing a Rip disc to hard drive... function and doing the same thing with DVDFab HD Decrypter. I'd be curious to see if the results were the same.

Anyway, that's it. I don't have anything further to add to this discussion and don't want to get off topic.
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Old 21st November 2008, 03:47   #14  |  Link
setarip_old
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@SamuriHL
Quote:
Is this with PathPlayer fully enabled?
I have "PathPlayer" set to "Always enabled"...

Sounds like you're referring to the explanation offered by "Peer" regarding "Leatherheads", included in my response here:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...5&postcount=13

If so, I don't see that as being a satisfactory "explanation" regarding the abilities of AnyDVD's "A.I" engine...

Last edited by setarip_old; 21st November 2008 at 03:52. Reason: Additional response
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Old 21st November 2008, 03:49   #15  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setarip_old View Post
@SamuriHLI have "PathPlayer" set to "Always enabled"...
Then a fair comparison would be an older AnyDVD version with the same always enabled setting...Otherwise you can't really compare the results.
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Old 21st November 2008, 04:03   #16  |  Link
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No it wouldn't, again, if the MODIFICATION to AnyDVD on 11/16 was required regarding the copy protection of "WALL-E":
Quote:
AnyDVD History
6.4.8.5 2008 11 16
- New: Added option to enable/disable creation of .dvd file to image ripper
- New (DVD): Added support for new protections
- and a post in the Slysoft forum appears to indicate that the update was specifically regarding "WALL-E":
Quote:
version is 6.4.8.5 which is supposed to deal with Wall-E.
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Old 21st November 2008, 04:05   #17  |  Link
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Um, I hate to point this out YET AGAIN, but, that update could be related to fixing Wall-E with AnyDVD's default settings, which is NOT to have the AI scanner always enabled. But you really can't say for sure with what you've posted, now, can you?
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Old 21st November 2008, 04:18   #18  |  Link
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Just as you stated your lack of knowledge regarding DVDFab HD Decrypter, I am not a user of AnyDVD. Don't users have the ability to turn the "A.I. Scanner" on or off manually? If they can, are you suggesting that the publishers would have to modify the program DESPITE knowing that simply turning on the "A.I. Scanner" would result in a good rip - and advising users to do so? Unless I've misunderstood you, such an action would be simply silly.

On the other hand, if the program DOESN'T permit the user to turn the "A.I. Scanner" on or off, I'd ask why?
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Old 21st November 2008, 04:22   #19  |  Link
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The default is "automatic" where AnyDVD itself tries to determine when the AI scanner is necessary. As AnyDVD is an "on demand" protection remover, it doesn't have the luxury of scanning a disc for 20 minutes at a time to determine the copy protection. Users expect it to be quick. Sometimes AnyDVD guesses wrong when the AI scanner is needed. So, yes, there is an option to always enable it which will take longer to initially scan the disc. So yes, I am saying that the update may be to fix the logic that AnyDVD uses to determine whether the disc needs to be scanned by the AI scanner. Peer said this to you the last time this discussion came up. Hence, just because the history shows that AnyDVD was fixed for this particular disc, it does NOT necessarily mean the AI scanner was unable to handle it. AnyDVD was simply unable to handle it with the default settings(potentially).
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Old 21st November 2008, 04:35   #20  |  Link
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I asked:
Quote:
Don't users have the ability to turn the "A.I. Scanner" on or off manually?
You responded:
Quote:
So, yes, there is an option to always enable it which will take longer to initially scan the disc.
The question was whether a user could turn it on and off, not "always enable it".

If it can be turned on and off, I'm CERTAIN that the publishers would advise all users that as S.O.P., when confronted with a new problematic DVD, turn the scanner ON, to see if that was all that was required for a good rip. Then, if that still didn't result in a good rip, the publishers would, as they did on 11/16, respond to forum postings of the inability of the program to properly rip "WALL-E", by MODIFYING the AnyDVD program. Anything else defies logic, as surely, at least some users would know enough to turn on the "A.I. Scanner" and then post their results...

(No matter how you slice it, SOMETHING transparent to the user had to be changed in order for AnyDVD to be able to properly rip "WALL-E")

Last edited by setarip_old; 21st November 2008 at 04:38.
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