Request: Help with MCF-CD DShow filter - Page 8

spectra · 3rd May 2002, 15:39

Quote:

Originally posted by avih

@others:
i've heard more than one person complaining that the 800M cd doesn't work on dvd drives (or on plain cd-rom drive) (obviously peter shown that it is possible to play from, at least some, dvd drives), so i would ask to report about the following scenario if possible:

regarding BOTH standard CD-ROM drives and DVD drives:

1. does the drive play the 800M file?
2. if not, can it read cd-r from the same manufacturer and type that were burned 'normally'? (i.e. using easy cd creator or other software for making a 'standard' compilation)
3. any cd-rw experience (media) is welcome as well (we had reports it was working for some).

thanx
avi.

so my former sucess report was a
791 MB Dat file (782MB DivX5 avi) burned on a
Verbatim 700MB CD-RW 10x (No.43147) using a PlexWriter 40/12/40 writing with 12x speed (CDR-Win 3.8).

Reading:
PlexWriter 40/12/40 > perfect
Plextor UltraPlex32 > perfect
PioneerDVD 105slot over network > perfect

Teegedeck · 6th May 2002, 10:53

You seriously want to collect test results in this thread? Here is some from my first test:

796 MB .avi-file -->
804 MB .dat file

Burned OK with Nero on a LiteOn 24102B (writing at 24x),using no-name-brand 700-MB-media.

The resulting XCD was readable on my Toshiba SD-M1212 DVD-ROM (EDIT:...and on the LiteOn-CDRW,too). The .avi (XviD + VBR MP3) plays perfectly.

BTW, thanks to all of you developers on that XCD-project.

EDIT: model- & firmware nrs.(I had a typo in the LiteOn model-nr before):
Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1212, Firmware"1R14"

The Toshiba is from 2000, I believe, never did a firmware-update, the LiteOn's is about half a year old.
LiteOn LTR24102B, Firmware "5S07"

DeXT · 6th May 2002, 14:15

Let me summarize all the reports we have got so far.

80 min media:

Success:

Creative 1240E DVD
Hitachi GD-8000 DVD
LG DVD (model?)
Lite-On 12101B (LS3J) CD-RW
Lite-On 16101B CD-RW
Lite-On 16102B CD-RW
Lite-On 24102B (5S07) CD-RW
Phillips 4801 CD-RW
Pioneer 105S DVD
Pioneer 116 DVD
Pioneer 305S DVD
Plextor UltraPlex32 CD-ROM
PlexWriter 40/12/40 CD-RW
RICHOH MP7163A CD-RW
Samsung CD-ROM (model?)
Toshiba SD-M1212 (1R14) DVD
Yamaha 2100S (1.0N) CD-RW
Generic 32x CD-ROM (several brands)

Failure:

Acer 50x CD-ROM
I/O Magic 8x DVD
Mitsumi CR-4804TE CD-RW
Samsung 16x DVD
Toshiba 12x DVD

90 min media:

Success:

Lite-On 12101B (LS3J) CD-RW (with difficulty)
LG CRD-8400B

Failure:

Yamaha 8424e CD-RW
Pioneer 116 DVD
Pioneer CD-ROM (model?)
Samsung SC-148C

It's pretty strange we have two antagonic reports regarding the Toshiba 12x DVD drive. I wonder if they are the same model or not. If that's the case it could be due to different factors such as the media type used or the burning speed. Oh and about the 90 min reports it seems the failures are not really related to the m2f2 reading but mostly to the media compatibility.

[Edit]

New information regarding this issue. I had an old 24x CD-ROM which was not able to read ANY kind of S/VCD under XP. But when I tested it under Win98 I had no problems at all reading the same CDs. So it seems this could be due to some kind of OS issue (probably a "bug" or a "feature" in NT/2K/XP CDFS.SYS), and not really a hardware issue.

So perhaps this Toshiba 12x antagonic report could be due to this (i.e. the same drive under different OS).

MaTTeR · 6th May 2002, 14:35

Perhaps it would be good if those that are submitting reports might also mention which firmware revision they have on the drive. I would always suggest having the latest firmware installed.

6th May 2002, 19:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Teegedeck
796 MB .avi-file -->804 MB .dat file
The .avi (XviD + VBR MP3) plays perfectly.

AVI ? .. time for a change old friend, dont you agree

?

Teegedeck · 6th May 2002, 22:18

I'm still waiting for MCF, dear! :b

Sygma21 · 6th May 2002, 23:34

I report success about 799 Mo OGM/Xvid/vorbis 128knps.

Burner : Yamaha 2100S (1.0N)
DVD : Pioneer 305S
OS : W2K SP2
Soft : CDRWIN 4.0a (with CUE)
CDR : Samsung 80mn 16X
Player : WMP6.4, Zoomplayer
Last mode2cdmaker & CDXAtest5

Nota: My previous CD made with old versions works fine with new CDXA DS filter

Regards

spyder · 6th May 2002, 23:39

@DeXT: You can add Lite-On 16101B to that list. My Creative 12x DVD drive (1240E) has no problems reading either.

philippas · 7th May 2002, 00:31

Success also on several cd's
Write:RICHOH MP7163A, burned with Nero
Read: LG DvD-Rom, Samsung Cd-Rom
Os: winXp

DeXT · 7th May 2002, 00:45

Ok, stuff updated, thanks guys.

BTW read my new comment about the XP issues with some drives. This may bring new light to this problem.

ErMonnezZa · 7th May 2002, 09:11

Ok here my results:

cd 80 min media:

Lite-On 12101B firmware LS3J--------------->ok
Pioneer DVD-ROM DVD 116-------------------->ok

CD 90 min media

Lite-On 12101B firmware LS3J------------->sometimes work with difficulty

Pioneer DVD-ROM DVD 116------------------>Doesn't work

DeXT · 8th May 2002, 20:04

For those interested, here you have the theoretical max. capacities for each type of media:

Code:

            +--------+--------+--------+--------+
            | 74 min | 80 min | 90 min | 99 min |
+-----------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
| Mode 1    | 650 MB | 703 MB | 791 MB | 870 MB |
+-----------+--------+--------+--------+--------+
| Mode 2    | 738 MB | 798 MB | 897 MB | 987 MB |
+-----------+--------+--------+--------+--------+

Of course this depends on media, since many CD brands has sightly more capacity than the "standard" one.

(moved from the XCD thread since it fits better in this one)

kxy · 8th May 2002, 21:47

It will be useful if we can burn the extra files(subtitles, images, etc) on to the CD. I tried adding the subtitle files (*.idx, *.sub) to the cd, but it didn't work, the cd turn out to be unreadble. This is what I did. First I burn the extra files first with (DAO leave the session not closed), then I burn the image file using CDRDAO, it reported the writing successfully, but it won't read. I also tried session at once, it didn't work either.

Is this cause by the padding zeroes at the end?

Has anyone tried that with success?

EDIT: My burner is LTR-24102B, winxp

DeXT · 8th May 2002, 23:31

You cannot add files to an existing session this way. You must activate Multisession and create an open session after writting the first one ("Open New Session"). Then you can add a second session with a Multisession-aware program (I guess CDRDAO isn't; use Nero or the like). Anyways I haven't tried this and I'm not sure if it can be done with VCD-like images.

In any case this isn't needed once I add Form1 files support to mode2cdmaker (soon to come). Meanwhile you can mux the subtitles along with your movie in an OGG media file and burn it with my tool.

mustaneekeri · 9th May 2002, 00:46

I must say that I would like to have form1 files in XCD. I have done my earlier rips so that they also contain external sub files, player(BSPlayer), CDautorun program, DVD-cover .jpg. When this possibility becomes available i will start using XCD. Anyway im using 99min CDs and im really waiting to put 980Mb .ogm file in to one.

kxy · 9th May 2002, 01:34

Quote:

Originally posted by DeXT
You cannot add files to an existing session this way. You must activate Multisession and create an open session after writting the first one ("Open New Session"). Then you can add a second session with a Multisession-aware program (I guess CDRDAO isn't; use Nero or the like). Anyways I haven't tried this and I'm not sure if it can be done with VCD-like images.

You can't, because Nero or other Multisession-aware programs would only take 700mb for a 80min CD. That is why I burn the misc files first.

Waiting for the new form 1 files.

avih · 9th May 2002, 03:48

Quote:

Originally posted by mustaneekeri
I must say that I would like to have form1 files in XCD. I have done my earlier rips so that they also contain external sub files, player(BSPlayer), CDautorun program, DVD-cover .jpg. When this possibility becomes available i will start using XCD. Anyway im using 99min CDs and im really waiting to put 980Mb .ogm file in to one.

There is no XCD yet ok?. dext's tool and the filter are completely general, therefore i would refrain from calling anything XCD atm simply because it will confuse ppl. To have a look at the initial XCD specifications, check out http://xcd.sf.net (and do keep in mind 1. it's not final, 2. we have more plans that we didn't put into the page yet (this page was last modified few days ago).

about the arbitrary binary files: there would be such thing. i'm not sure though , that it would be able to store subtitles that way since the playback bay be skippy if the player has to use two different streams throughout the entire clip. copying it to the HD is an option, but then stand alone players may have problems with it. i'd suggest using subtitles that are embeded into the main stream, like in ogg (or mcf when it's ready).

cheers
avi

spyder · 9th May 2002, 03:59

avih & DeXT:

I have nearly completed a prototype of a reader for the XCD header files to splice in backup sectors when reading from an XCD stream file(Don't worry it's completely open to modification not final). In the process I noticed that in the spec you used UINT64, I'm assuming that means an unsigned 64 bit integer. Why such extreme size? It's only 8 bytes I know but 8 bytes could make a huge difference in a hardware player. 64-bit numbers can reference up to 17179869184 GB of data. I don't think we will have a disc of that capacity in the life span of XCD. Why use 64-bit?

avih · 9th May 2002, 04:20

spyder, do you know what 'initial' and 'draft' means? it means it's the 1st version, and that's it's far from beeing finalized. i just wrote this document so we can have a framework to work with. there won't be probably a single definition that will stay till the 1st minimal spec.

i suggest not writing XCD readers yet since the XCD header format is REALLY REALLY REALLY far from beeing finalized. (i.e. we'll add support for a situation where the whole file is a backup, so the stream file itself won't be there at all (there'll be a bit in the header somewhere), and an offset of the 1st actual backup to the header such that if we decide to add 'content' to the header before the actual backups, players that were designed today will still be able to play files that will be recorded next year.

the work on the tools and filters so far (mode2cd) is completely general and the lessons learned will be implemented in XCD, but it's not xcd.

regarding 64Bits: my initial thought were not to limit the size of the file or the media type. 32 bits give us 4G, but tomorows media might contain 100G. these 64 bit values are very sparse throughout the cd, so there's no space problem if storing as 64 instead of 32 bits.

spyder, i suggest that instead of start programming a 'compliant' reader, start to think how to imrove the spec. pls especially keep in mind the last paragraph from the main xcd page:

Quote:

XCD is currently in it's planning stage. Our 1st priority task is finilizing a minimal specification that will be sufficient to play the files, while beeing extensible, such that future versions of the specifications won't break compatibility with players that support only this minimal specifications.

cheers
avi

avih · 9th May 2002, 04:30

spyder: i'm not trying to de-motivate you here. i just think that the minimal spec should be finalized before we 'jump' into implementations. start implementations while the minimal spec is not finalized is doing efforts in vein. i'm just trying to focus the development.

the work we're doing now with the filter and tool is essenitial to learn more about filter and image issues.

so i think the only help needed atm with regard to xcd is to think how to achieve the main goal of minimal spec.

ok? sorry if i seemed too harsh on you. i appologise.

cheers
avi

6th May 2002, 10:53	#142 \| Link
Teegedeck Moderator, Ex(viD)-Mascot Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,564	You seriously want to collect test results in this thread? Here is some from my first test: 796 MB .avi-file --> 804 MB .dat file Burned OK with Nero on a LiteOn 24102B (writing at 24x),using no-name-brand 700-MB-media. The resulting XCD was readable on my Toshiba SD-M1212 DVD-ROM (EDIT:...and on the LiteOn-CDRW,too). The .avi (XviD + VBR MP3) plays perfectly. BTW, thanks to all of you developers on that XCD-project. EDIT: model- & firmware nrs.(I had a typo in the LiteOn model-nr before): Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-M1212, Firmware"1R14" The Toshiba is from 2000, I believe, never did a firmware-update, the LiteOn's is about half a year old. LiteOn LTR24102B, Firmware "5S07" __________________ It's a man's life in Doom9's 52nd MPEG division. "The cat sat on the mat." ATM I'm thoroughly enjoying the Banshee - a fantastic music player/ripper for Linux. Give it a whirl! Last edited by Teegedeck; 6th May 2002 at 15:10.

6th May 2002, 14:15	#143 \| Link
DeXT Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 307	Let me summarize all the reports we have got so far. 80 min media: Success: Creative 1240E DVD Hitachi GD-8000 DVD LG DVD (model?) Lite-On 12101B (LS3J) CD-RW Lite-On 16101B CD-RW Lite-On 16102B CD-RW Lite-On 24102B (5S07) CD-RW Phillips 4801 CD-RW Pioneer 105S DVD Pioneer 116 DVD Pioneer 305S DVD Plextor UltraPlex32 CD-ROM PlexWriter 40/12/40 CD-RW RICHOH MP7163A CD-RW Samsung CD-ROM (model?) Toshiba SD-M1212 (1R14) DVD Yamaha 2100S (1.0N) CD-RW Generic 32x CD-ROM (several brands) Failure: Acer 50x CD-ROM I/O Magic 8x DVD Mitsumi CR-4804TE CD-RW Samsung 16x DVD Toshiba 12x DVD 90 min media: Success: Lite-On 12101B (LS3J) CD-RW (with difficulty) LG CRD-8400B Failure: Yamaha 8424e CD-RW Pioneer 116 DVD Pioneer CD-ROM (model?) Samsung SC-148C It's pretty strange we have two antagonic reports regarding the Toshiba 12x DVD drive. I wonder if they are the same model or not. If that's the case it could be due to different factors such as the media type used or the burning speed. Oh and about the 90 min reports it seems the failures are not really related to the m2f2 reading but mostly to the media compatibility. [Edit] New information regarding this issue. I had an old 24x CD-ROM which was not able to read ANY kind of S/VCD under XP. But when I tested it under Win98 I had no problems at all reading the same CDs. So it seems this could be due to some kind of OS issue (probably a "bug" or a "feature" in NT/2K/XP CDFS.SYS), and not really a hardware issue. So perhaps this Toshiba 12x antagonic report could be due to this (i.e. the same drive under different OS). Last edited by DeXT; 7th May 2002 at 11:17.

6th May 2002, 14:35	#144 \| Link
MaTTeR AC3 5.1 Addict Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Big Blue Nation_USA Posts: 2,036	Perhaps it would be good if those that are submitting reports might also mention which firmware revision they have on the drive. I would always suggest having the latest firmware installed. __________________ Need AC3 & SPDIF setup info?

6th May 2002, 22:18	#146 \| Link
Teegedeck Moderator, Ex(viD)-Mascot Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 2,564	I'm still waiting for MCF, dear! :b __________________ It's a man's life in Doom9's 52nd MPEG division. "The cat sat on the mat." ATM I'm thoroughly enjoying the Banshee - a fantastic music player/ripper for Linux. Give it a whirl!

8th May 2002, 20:04	#152 \| Link
DeXT Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 307	For those interested, here you have the theoretical max. capacities for each type of media: Code: +--------+--------+--------+--------+ \| 74 min \| 80 min \| 90 min \| 99 min \| +-----------+--------+--------+--------+--------+ \| Mode 1 \| 650 MB \| 703 MB \| 791 MB \| 870 MB \| +-----------+--------+--------+--------+--------+ \| Mode 2 \| 738 MB \| 798 MB \| 897 MB \| 987 MB \| +-----------+--------+--------+--------+--------+ Of course this depends on media, since many CD brands has sightly more capacity than the "standard" one. (moved from the XCD thread since it fits better in this one)

6th May 2002, 23:34	#147 \| Link
Sygma21 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 28	I report success about 799 Mo OGM/Xvid/vorbis 128knps. Burner : Yamaha 2100S (1.0N) DVD : Pioneer 305S OS : W2K SP2 Soft : CDRWIN 4.0a (with CUE) CDR : Samsung 80mn 16X Player : WMP6.4, Zoomplayer Last mode2cdmaker & CDXAtest5 Nota: My previous CD made with old versions works fine with new CDXA DS filter Regards

6th May 2002, 23:39	#148 \| Link
spyder Matroska Developer Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 315	@DeXT: You can add Lite-On 16101B to that list. My Creative 12x DVD drive (1240E) has no problems reading either.

7th May 2002, 00:31	#149 \| Link
philippas ∏→+∞ Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 240	Success also on several cd's Write:RICHOH MP7163A, burned with Nero Read: LG DvD-Rom, Samsung Cd-Rom Os: winXp

7th May 2002, 00:45	#150 \| Link
DeXT Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 307	Ok, stuff updated, thanks guys. BTW read my new comment about the XP issues with some drives. This may bring new light to this problem.

7th May 2002, 09:11	#151 \| Link
ErMonnezZa Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 18	Ok here my results: cd 80 min media: Lite-On 12101B firmware LS3J--------------->ok Pioneer DVD-ROM DVD 116-------------------->ok CD 90 min media Lite-On 12101B firmware LS3J------------->sometimes work with difficulty Pioneer DVD-ROM DVD 116------------------>Doesn't work

8th May 2002, 21:47	#153 \| Link
kxy Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 343	It will be useful if we can burn the extra files(subtitles, images, etc) on to the CD. I tried adding the subtitle files (.idx, .sub) to the cd, but it didn't work, the cd turn out to be unreadble. This is what I did. First I burn the extra files first with (DAO leave the session not closed), then I burn the image file using CDRDAO, it reported the writing successfully, but it won't read. I also tried session at once, it didn't work either. Is this cause by the padding zeroes at the end? Has anyone tried that with success? EDIT: My burner is LTR-24102B, winxp Last edited by kxy; 8th May 2002 at 21:49.

8th May 2002, 23:31	#154 \| Link
DeXT Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Spain Posts: 307	You cannot add files to an existing session this way. You must activate Multisession and create an open session after writting the first one ("Open New Session"). Then you can add a second session with a Multisession-aware program (I guess CDRDAO isn't; use Nero or the like). Anyways I haven't tried this and I'm not sure if it can be done with VCD-like images. In any case this isn't needed once I add Form1 files support to mode2cdmaker (soon to come). Meanwhile you can mux the subtitles along with your movie in an OGG media file and burn it with my tool.

9th May 2002, 00:46	#155 \| Link
mustaneekeri Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 149	I must say that I would like to have form1 files in XCD. I have done my earlier rips so that they also contain external sub files, player(BSPlayer), CDautorun program, DVD-cover .jpg. When this possibility becomes available i will start using XCD. Anyway im using 99min CDs and im really waiting to put 980Mb .ogm file in to one.

9th May 2002, 03:59	#158 \| Link
spyder Matroska Developer Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 315	avih & DeXT: I have nearly completed a prototype of a reader for the XCD header files to splice in backup sectors when reading from an XCD stream file(Don't worry it's completely open to modification not final). In the process I noticed that in the spec you used UINT64, I'm assuming that means an unsigned 64 bit integer. Why such extreme size? It's only 8 bytes I know but 8 bytes could make a huge difference in a hardware player. 64-bit numbers can reference up to 17179869184 GB of data. I don't think we will have a disc of that capacity in the life span of XCD. Why use 64-bit?

9th May 2002, 04:30	#160 \| Link
avih Capture, Deinterlace Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Right there Posts: 1,971	spyder: i'm not trying to de-motivate you here. i just think that the minimal spec should be finalized before we 'jump' into implementations. start implementations while the minimal spec is not finalized is doing efforts in vein. i'm just trying to focus the development. the work we're doing now with the filter and tool is essenitial to learn more about filter and image issues. so i think the only help needed atm with regard to xcd is to think how to achieve the main goal of minimal spec. ok? sorry if i seemed too harsh on you. i appologise. cheers avi Last edited by avih; 9th May 2002 at 04:32.