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3rd December 2002, 12:42 | #1 | Link |
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C'T: DVD±R media test!
Summerization:
The following media is crap (i.e. error rate turned out higher than allowed by specs): DVD-R: Princo 1x, DataTrack, RitekG01 (HiSpace), CMC, Vivastar DVD+R: Ricoh (!!), Ritek Good media: DVD-R: Maxell, RitekG01 (Emtec), Pioneer, Mitsui, Matsushita, TDK, Mitsubishi DVD+R: Mitsubishi When writing Ritek/CMC at 2x (with or without hacked firmware), error rate increased by 5x - 25x. The PI sum 8 error rate of 2x certified DVD-R media was at 30-80 (Verbatim, TDK, Pioneer, Matsushita about 30, Mitsui 80) while 280 are allowed. Ritek media at 2x showed up to 1600, as well as CMC. Ritek G01 was between 100 and 800 at 1x speed. Princo 1x got 500. Last edited by alexnoe; 3rd December 2002 at 13:10. |
3rd December 2002, 21:04 | #4 | Link |
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That article is *really* long, and I can't decribe that all.
7 of 10 tested DVD+R disc were made by Ricoh, however, they had very different quality: The numbers are: PI sum 8 / PIF / POF / HF PI sum 8 (number of PI errors over the last 8 sectors) PIF: PI Faults: First error correction level failed for this number of bytes POF: Hard read errors HF: quality of HF signal (from -2 to 2) max allowed values: PI sum 8: 280 PIF: 4 (not specified for DVD-R) POF: 0 Ricoh (Emtec): 734/30/1/-2 (total crap) Ricoh (Fuji): 124/11/0/-1 Ricoh (HP): 122/11/0/-1 Intenso (mo manuf. spec.): 730/18/0/-2 (total crap) Ricoh (Memorex): 209/10/0/-1 Mitsubishi (Philips): 57/8/0/0 Ricoh (Platinum): 167/9/0/-2 Ricoh (Ricoh): 325/8/0/-1 Ricoh (TDK): 257/10/0/-1 Verbatim (Mitsubishi): 87/8/0/0 As you can see, no disc got better than 0 for HF signal quality. They've measure *much* more, but I can't describe that all here. As a comparision, the best DVD-R media are Matsushita: 30/4/0/2 TDK: 25/6/0/0 Verbatim: 29/7/0/1 Pioneer: 31/5/0/2 None of DVD+R media reached that. The worst DVD-R media are however Imation CMC: 1664/208/1/-2 (no english word available to describe this) The quality of the tracking signal was better for DVD+R than for DVD-R, but a good tracking signal alone isn't worth much... Last edited by alexnoe; 3rd December 2002 at 21:08. |
16th December 2002, 14:32 | #11 | Link |
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That test confuses me a little bit, i have thought all Ritek brands would be the same.
For a little explanation the "Gewerbeschein" means that you`ve got wholeseller conditions.
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16th December 2002, 19:03 | #14 | Link |
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They did only test 1x and 2x DVD-R media, but not 4x media.
They had one Ritek G03 disc and wrote it at 1x. The PI sum 8 error rate increased in the outer regions and went up to 128 (which is OK). Although 128 is OK, the error rate should not increase towards the outer portion... Tracking and HF signal both got "average" (compared to Princo, which got "very bad" for both ). Assuming that the quality of Ritek G03 is constant, these discs would be pretty good generic media for 1x writing. With the error rate increasing towards the outer portion, 2x writing must give very low quality there (they did not check that though). |
18th December 2002, 06:02 | #15 | Link | |
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Alexnoe, any comment on the quote from our friend Trilight
Quote:
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18th December 2002, 13:49 | #16 | Link |
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A bit agreesive to me, but not totally false.
can you give us reference to the original article ? Do you have more info about "how" they did measurements ? On the other side, I feel this post useful, as it's a forum, to discuss and it's a lot more scientific and precise than thousand of post I read (and wrote at the beginning hughh) " blublu brand is the best of the world, I just burned one DVD-R and it's playing perfectly in the 5 first min on my PC. (not mentionned : 5 min is enough to test I want to post first on this fantastic result I am so happy I finally burned a DVD !!) We spoke a lot about "How the hell can we test a media quality ?" and this is the first time we see the beginning of an answer. |
18th December 2002, 14:25 | #17 | Link |
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well.. people who don't know c't should let the judging to the ones who know the mag. It's about the only computer magazine that I still trust in. The article is called "Scheibenwahl" by a Hartmut Gieselmann, it was published in c't issue 25 on pages 124-133 and it's not available online or in English anywhere. It would be way too much work to come up with a halfway decent translation as the article is very scientific explaining the various things that have been measured. For your reference a CATS-SA300-DVD-PRO Analyzer by AudioDev (www.audiodev.com) has been used. Drives used were Pulstec SDP-1000. If you can afford a testing system it would be no problem at all to perform these tests on your own.
Now c't itself stated that the test have to be taken with a grain of salt as qualities can change a lot in short periods - but to to call it worthless is almost an offense of rule4. If any computer mag doesn't publish bs it's c't. Period!
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18th December 2002, 16:26 | #18 | Link |
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About trilights comment:
I agree on that being able to perform these tests on ones own (as C1/C2 measurements for CD-R) would be veeeeery helpful (and LiteOn, whose CD-R drives are the only ones which currently allow customers to do proper C1 measurements, don't officially support it, but don't seem to be annoyed, since we use WSES for our reviews on cdfreaks), but Pioneer doesn't want us to do these tests. Please send all your complaints to their support address The C'T seems to be the only hardware magazine at all which has an open ear for constructive critique btw...assuming that Trilight only knows BS writing magazines, such as Computer Bild, PC-Welt, etc (i'm sure there are lots of them in english and french as well as in german), his comment is...understandable. It's the first media test of all I saw which makes sense I could scan these pages...but publishing them here would probably violate copyright , and I'm sure that not all of you can read German well enough What I can tell you is that they've burned discs of 4482 MB. Although 4489 MB would have been nice, 4482 should also suffice. |
22nd December 2002, 13:21 | #19 | Link |
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> PIF: PI Faults: First error correction level failed for
> this number of bytes You mean frames I guess (wrong bytes cannot be counted in case of an uncorrectable PI frame) ? By the way, was the HF quality score calculated on jitter measurements ? |
22nd December 2002, 13:30 | #20 | Link |
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Jitter has been measured, too (12% for Princo is a lot, isn't it...)
HF was mainly scored according to the amplitude of the generated signals for the shortest and longest pits/lands. About PI: Could also be the number of frames in which PIs occured. Problem: I haven't got that C'T here at the moment , and I could not memorize everything. |
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