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Old 29th May 2018, 14:56   #51041  |  Link
Magik Mark
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madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

Thanks a lot! That did it. However, I noticed in MPC BE, when you fast forward or jump from scene to scene. The color becomes pale again. You need to restart the player

Same thing happens when switching different refresh rates
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Last edited by Magik Mark; 29th May 2018 at 15:15.
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Old 29th May 2018, 16:32   #51042  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Magik Mark View Post
Thanks a lot! That did it. However, I noticed in MPC BE, when you fast forward or jump from scene to scene. The color becomes pale again. You need to restart the player

Same thing happens when switching different refresh rates
Ok this side, I use MPC-HC and KODI with Dsplayer, dont think I have seen any issues like that this side, on Nvidia 1050 and using 390.77 drivers.
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Old 29th May 2018, 17:07   #51043  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by x7007 View Post
Does it matter for us with HDR if it's D3D11 Exclusive (10bit) ? where would it matter ?
Using LG OLED C6 TV
Windows 1803
If I want the movie using the windows HDR which is 8 bit + Dithering will it be ok to watch HDR movies using D3D11 Full Windowed (8 bit) ?
It only matters if you can spot the difference with your eyes. You likely aren't missing anything with 8-bits with dithering. Many new UHD displays are still 8-bit with dithering. There are other more important things to worry about. Watch something at 8-bits and see if you notice the difference.
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Old 29th May 2018, 17:24   #51044  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Yoshi View Post
However, bear in mind the unfortunately (and I don't wanna blame madVR on this as apparently it seems to be quite a complex issue) neither madVR will give the same look as if it would be a native SDR source. Had to learn my lesson where I dared to raise a stink about how overblown Starship Troopers looks on UHD here.
Tone mapping and color accuracy don't really go together as well as you'd like. The paper below describes the challenge of correcting saturation and contrast after luminance reduction (how to desaturate after tone mapping):

https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rkm38/pdfs/mantiuk09cctm.pdf

If you look at the color corrected images of the apples towards the end of the paper, you'll notice they don't look too bad but don't match the original at all. And this paper limited luminance reduction to 33% of the original, so it didn't have to deal with out-of-gamut colors, which require further correction, even after proper desaturation.

I think most current HDR content is being mastered to be tone mapped by dimmer displays. I saw a side-by-side of the 2018 flagship Samsung QLED (with a peak brightness over 1,000 nits) with an LG OLED (peak brightness of 540 nits) playing the same frames from HDR sources. The LG OLED has a better black level, but not by much. However, the slight boost in contrast and saturation provided by tone mapping made the OLED look like it had a much better black level and more overall punch in the image. The only area where the Samsung excelled was in shadow detail, also likely due to the tone mapping of the OLED. And the dumb gamut mapping of the OLED made the extreme highlights stand out more. The combination of the perceived boost in contrast with the enhanced highlights made the OLED look better even if it was less true to the director's intent. The difference in detail in the two images was very striking. Tone mapping can lead to very different images in some scenes depending on how the content is mapped.

Things would likely move in Samsung's favor if you tried to tone map the same sources to something as low as 100 nits. But moderate tone mapping doesn't look that bad if the source is graded for it.
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Old 29th May 2018, 18:55   #51045  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Magik Mark View Post
Thanks a lot! That did it. However, I noticed in MPC BE, when you fast forward or jump from scene to scene. The color becomes pale again. You need to restart the player

Same thing happens when switching different refresh rates
If you're using xysubfilter, try to use the internal subtitle renderer. I have reported to Madshi an issue with xysubfilter in pixel shader that causes such issues. Hopefully it will be fixed at some point, along with the unnecessary forced 8bits in pixel shader with nVidia in windowed mode.
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Last edited by Manni; 29th May 2018 at 21:44.
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Old 30th May 2018, 00:15   #51046  |  Link
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Thanks Manni! That did it.
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:13   #51047  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
madVR v0.92.11 released
Code:
* fixed: "display" profile variable didn't work properly
Yes. Now it's working as expected. Thanks.
Now you can even have different renders (DX9/DX11) on different displays. The only thing which is not functioning when you change display on the fly is overlay if it is enabled on one display and disabled on other.

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I'm not sure how near frame blending would have to be done, it might require dozens of frames to be blended to be totally invisible. I think a better idea might be to try to detect two frames where motion is minimal and then drop one of those. But this is relatively hard to implement. So not planned any time soon.
>it might require dozens of frames to be blended to be totally invisible
Yes, dozens. So we will have hours of "bit perfect" video and few seconds of blended (and user can manually set length of this (blended) area if you will do such setting).

>I think a better idea might be to try to detect two frames where motion is minimal and then drop one of those. But this is relatively hard to implement.
Yes, hard. And that's why i offered blending. IMHO you have all ready for this (Smooth Motion algorithm) except drop/repeat point detector.

Last edited by SweetLow; 30th May 2018 at 13:39.
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Old 30th May 2018, 13:59   #51048  |  Link
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What? Do you mean madshi will improve the smooth motion algorithm?
Is it the totally new algorithm?
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:14   #51049  |  Link
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What? Do you mean madshi will improve the smooth motion algorithm?
Is it the totally new algorithm?
No. It is not improvement of SM nor new algorithm. This is struggling with almost the same but not equal frequencies. Read the beginning of this discussion.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:21   #51050  |  Link
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Originally Posted by sauma144 View Post
What? Do you mean madshi will improve the smooth motion algorithm?
Is it the totally new algorithm?
With high refresh displays it makes sense to improve smooth motion at some point if it's possible.. but yeah as Sweetlow said, this is about matching refresh to display frequencies.

Last edited by ryrynz; 30th May 2018 at 14:25.
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:25   #51051  |  Link
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But Smooth Motion is completly useless when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:31   #51052  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Polopretress View Post
when you have perfect custom resolutions adapted to movie fps (or adapted to a multiple of fps)
But if it is imperfect, but so small imperfect that we can have hours of exact video and only few seconds of changed?
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Old 30th May 2018, 14:52   #51053  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SweetLow View Post
But if it is imperfect, but so small imperfect that we can have hours of exact video and only few seconds of changed?
If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:05   #51054  |  Link
Manni
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If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours.
Yes, but for many (i.e. us nVidia users) custom refresh modes give only about 50-60mn of drop-frame-free playback in 2D, and 3-5mn in 3D .

That's something that has to be improved, especially 3D (although I'm aware that 1) this is primarily nVidia's fault and 2) that's not going to be easy/possible in 3D).
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:11   #51055  |  Link
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Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:28   #51056  |  Link
Polopretress
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?

Quote:
For most purposes you don't need "perfect", you just need "good enough", which even for long movies is probably like ~3 hours
.
Agree.
my acceptance criteria for the safe side is above 10 hours before the first drop/repeat occures and i do not care about smoothing problem. In this condition, enabling Smooth Motion function does not give any added value.
The last (small) flickerings that are still existing (especialy on vertical travelings) cannot be removed by SM but only by the smooth feature of the TVs or Projectors if there are equiped with.

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Yes, but for many (i.e. us nVidia users) custom refresh modes give only about 50-60mn of drop-frame-free playback in 2D, and 3-5mn in 3D .

That's something that has to be improved, especially 3D (although I'm aware that 1) this is primarily nVidia's fault and 2) that's not going to be easy/possible in 3D).
Driver Nvidia are sometime crazy and in most of case, it is more easy to modifiy directly the settings in madVR custom modes where you can have the flexibility to adjust pixel clock. (like ATI GPU driver but not provided with Nvidia drivers)

If the scan with custom modes function does not give you the expected good timing (or blank screen) , then, a simple calculation based on the displayed data "1 frame drop/repeat every :..." helps to manually calculate the good settings for back porch H/V and pixel clock

This is what i do since custom mode scanning does not always give me a good result.
With ATI graphic display board, no issue with the driver.

Last edited by Polopretress; 30th May 2018 at 15:39.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:28   #51057  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
If you have hours of perfect video, how long are your videos that it then becomes a problem?
Hours is little exaggeration, of course. I have 40min repeat on my home system on HD4000.
But phrase "we have [tens of] minutes exact video and only few seconds changed" sounds as good as with hours

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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
you just need "good enough"
Some people are very sensitive to repeats/drops. This thread is good example. That's why this discussion take place.
P.S. "as high as possible" is the madVR slogan, isn't it?
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:32   #51058  |  Link
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Some people are very sensitive to repeats/drops. This thread is good example. That's why this discussion take place.
P.S. "as high as possible" is the madVR slogan, isn't it?
Well if you have a 3-4 hour drop interval, you're not going to see any drops unless you actually watch a movie that long. So in this case while higher is of course "better", it doesn't really benefit you either.
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:35   #51059  |  Link
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Even without madshi's tool to make custom refresh rates easier, I've been setting up custom rates with only NVIDIAs control panel for years with 2+ hours of drop time. Its really not that hard.
I do it on Intel by EDID override since 2013. But what this facts prove or disprove? We can do better even in such situations - why not?
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Old 30th May 2018, 15:36   #51060  |  Link
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Is there a way in MadVR to force resolution to switch from 4k/24 to 1080p/60 when 3D mkv is played? Right now madVR upscales all videos to 4k/24, which is what my desktop is set at and because of that 3D does not work.
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