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Old 18th October 2017, 08:05   #46681  |  Link
ttnuagmada
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Forgive me if this has been discussed.

How would I go about creating a 3dlut for 4K HDR videos, that would take advantage of my SDR television's (panny st60) native color gamut? I have a colorimeter/spectro/calman and have played around with it some, but i can't figure out what the correct way to do this would be. Any ideas?
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Old 18th October 2017, 08:28   #46682  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The type of blocking its designed for is not quite common with HEVC. HEVC is more likely to blur on low bitrate encodes then block. Of course you could transcode a low-quality mpeg2 source to HEVC, but you only have yourself to blame if you do that =p
no question. HEVC and AVC both have a very effective deblock filter and both will rarely if ever generate blocking at least in the hands of an "good" encoder. that doesn't change that AVC broadcast has usually blocking in it don't know if the professionals that disable the in loop filter for broadcast are to blame or if it comes from signal errors both should apply to HEVC too.

never underestimate the skills of a professional encoder I can show you a relative new BDs with ~20 mbit that has unbelievable blocking in it and no they are not using mpeg2 and i can show you even worse things on older discs...
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Old 18th October 2017, 08:35   #46683  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
Forgive me if this has been discussed.

How would I go about creating a 3dlut for 4K HDR videos, that would take advantage of my SDR television's (panny st60) native color gamut? I have a colorimeter/spectro/calman and have played around with it some, but i can't figure out what the correct way to do this would be. Any ideas?
set it to native gamut. try displaycal with the setting "video 3D LUT for madVR HDR..."
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Old 18th October 2017, 08:37   #46684  |  Link
ttnuagmada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
set it to native gamut. try displaycal with the setting "video 3D LUT for madVR HDR..."
Im sorry, i should have explained; I have no issues with generating 3Dluts for MadVR using Calman Enthusiast. It created an excellent 3Dlut for SDR content. I am just confused on what what my targets should be for HDR, should I be trying to created a 3dlut for rec 2020?

I have used DisplayCal in the past for 3dluts, but it seems to have trouble with nailing down near-blacks on a plasma. Calman does a better job, i am just not entirely sure how this all needs to be configured to get a 3dlut that will take advantage of the extended gamut for HDR videos.

Last edited by ttnuagmada; 18th October 2017 at 08:40.
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Old 18th October 2017, 08:40   #46685  |  Link
huhn
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i don't know if calman supports a HDR -> SDR conversation 3D LUt.

madVR support both HDR -SDR 3D LUT and HDR-> HDR 3D LUt's.

but what i know is selecting a different target is not enough.
edit: well you could create a SDR bt 2020 3d lut and run this but madVR can do better HDR->SDR 3DLUT.

Last edited by huhn; 18th October 2017 at 08:51.
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Old 18th October 2017, 09:44   #46686  |  Link
wushantao
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hi @madshi

there is a crash report here

v0.92.7 & v0.92.6 crash

v0.92.5&v0.92.4&v0.92.3 unknow,not test


crash step:
1、play a movie file
2、full screen
3、pause play back(don’t touch anything,just stop)
4、auto close screen(by power management setting)
5、wait 1 minute more
6、open screen(move mouse or touch any keyboard)
7、you can see crash now

other info:
win10 x64 15063、mpc be x64 v1.5.2、lav x64 v0.70.2、16G ram、i7 4760HQ、iris 5200

there is a crash report and settings.bin

madVR - crash report.txt
settings.7z
i hope this information is useful for bug fix

Last edited by wushantao; 18th October 2017 at 12:32.
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:33   #46687  |  Link
HomeY_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyago123 View Post
I can't get HDR switching to work in 1709 after upgrading from 1703 + nVidia 387.92 (was working last night). I tried a clean re-install of the last nVidia driver (385.69) and made sure my settings were nVidia color, but still doesn't work.

I'm going to rollback to 1703 unless someone here can confirm it's working for them.
I've been struggling with several combinations the last week, since (all of a sudden, probably a TV FW upgrade) switching to HDR resulted in a purple video image. I can work-around this problem by toggling the TV OFF & ON again.

Here's my results with several drivers on Win 1709 with an 1050Ti card:

378.92-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
No HDR option in windows, unusable.

382.33-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
Toggle HDR ON/OFF on Video Start/Stop works fine, but purple video / wrong colorspace

384.76-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
Toggle HDR ON/OFF on Video Start/Stop works fine, but purple video / wrong colorspace

385.41-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
Toggle HDR ON/OFF on Video Start/Stop works fine, but purple video / wrong colorspace

387.92-desktop-win10-64bit-international-rs3-whql
HDR doesn't turn OFF after video stop, but this is the only driver that gives me good colors. Unfortunately unusable because it doesn't switch HDR ON/OFF properly.

So i'm sticking with 385.41 for now

As a sidenote: After installing the 1709 update, my desktop colors were really dark. I got this solved by running Display Color Calibration.

Last edited by HomeY_; 18th October 2017 at 11:38.
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:33   #46688  |  Link
ABDO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
that doesn't change that AVC broadcast has usually blocking in it ... should apply to HEVC too.
thats true.
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Old 18th October 2017, 14:58   #46689  |  Link
el Filou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwalker View Post
- change the nvidia power setting to adaptive, same thing...shuttering
- checking GPU-Z if the PCIe speed is at least x16 2 yes, but when play all gpu ram is used, maybe this is the problem?
- reduced the render queue to 6 and 4, same thing...shuttering
Other tips:
- Try reducing your decode ('CPU') queue too. When using DXVA Native, the decode queue is kept in graphics RAM, so setting it lower could help. Hardware decoding on the Pascal cards is so fast that you don't really need a very high decode queue anyway, it fills up nearly instantly. Try something like 10.
- Close all other programs when playing a movie. Any open program uses video RAM for its application windows textures.
- If it still doesn't work, try this with DXVA Native: Present queue 4, Render queue 6, Decode queue 8.
- Did you try Windowed mode? It works quite well on my 1050 Ti on Windows 10.
(Edit) - Probably not linked to your issue, but I see you have not enabled VP9 hardware decoding. Is there a reason for this? Your 1050 can decode VP9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xabregas View Post
You know what would be great? For Madvr to support audio rendering and some enthusiast start developing it by making it optimized for all the different audios out there. Im frustrated by having to change audio decoders and settings because the different audios are becoming worst every day.
What do you need to change? What is becoming worse? I find audio decopding to be pretty bulletproof these days.
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Last edited by el Filou; 18th October 2017 at 15:01.
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Old 18th October 2017, 15:17   #46690  |  Link
chros
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
I am just confused on what what my targets should be for HDR, should I be trying to created a 3dlut for rec 2020?
As huhn suggested, you don't have to do anything else: leave your native gamut 3dlut configured in madvr and it will take care of the rest!
Thanks Madshi!
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Old 18th October 2017, 15:19   #46691  |  Link
xabregas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeY_ View Post
I've been struggling with several combinations the last week, since (all of a sudden, probably a TV FW upgrade) switching to HDR resulted in a purple video image. I can work-around this problem by toggling the TV OFF & ON again.

Here's my results with several drivers on Win 1709 with an 1050Ti card:

378.92-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
No HDR option in windows, unusable.

382.33-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
Toggle HDR ON/OFF on Video Start/Stop works fine, but purple video / wrong colorspace

384.76-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
Toggle HDR ON/OFF on Video Start/Stop works fine, but purple video / wrong colorspace

385.41-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql
Toggle HDR ON/OFF on Video Start/Stop works fine, but purple video / wrong colorspace

387.92-desktop-win10-64bit-international-rs3-whql
HDR doesn't turn OFF after video stop, but this is the only driver that gives me good colors. Unfortunately unusable because it doesn't switch HDR ON/OFF properly.

So i'm sticking with 385.41 for now

As a sidenote: After installing the 1709 update, my desktop colors were really dark. I got this solved by running Display Color Calibration.
I assume you are using Nvidia Control Panel to change colors right?

You change color in Resolution tab?

I wonder if none of you had trouble trying to switch from RGB to Ycbcr before?

I needed to do some weird rituals for the drivers to assume RGB FULL color. Restarting OS. Changing other options in Nvidia Control Panel. And as i never trust this driver i always check if RGB Full is selected on my Nvidia Control Panel before i watch a movie.

I remember AMD was worst.

My tip is if you get a driver that works wonderful for what u do daily u should avoid any updates. And as for windows 10 updates i have it turned off by default on services.msc. When i remember i turn on. See the info about the update and Update or not. Then OFF again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
What do you need to change? What is becoming worse? I find audio decopding to be pretty bulletproof these days.
It depends. Dolby Digital Plus from amazon prime streams is awfull and very badly mixed most of the times.

Last edited by xabregas; 18th October 2017 at 15:26.
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Old 18th October 2017, 16:01   #46692  |  Link
KeVe1983
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Hopefully someone can help

Following:

HTPC running Kodi 17.4 DSPlayer + madVR

Intel i3
Nvidia GT 1030
4GB RAM

Connected to Denon AVR X1200
Beamer Acer M550 4K HDR connected to Denon
Used HDMI cables are fine and support all i need

I can set 4k resolution in NVCC
60Hz but only RGB Full @8Bit

HEVC Playback works fine but HDR seems very dark
Beamer is switching to 4K 60Hz and recognize HDR automatically
I can stop a video file and start another one without issues.

I can also set 1080p 60Hz RGB Full with 12Bit in NVCC
I can play one HEVC 4K HDR file
Beamer is switching to 4K 60Hz and recognize HDR automatically
I can stop the file but i can't play another one

If i start another file Beamer is Switching to 4K 60Hz HDR, but i get back on the desktop and there is just a black square about 25% over my desktop. Have to kill Kodi with Taskmanager.

It seems there is a problem while switching the resolution after playing one file. I also played around with exclusive full screen, but that did not help.


Is there a resolution for dark HDR image quality if Desktop is set to 4k resolution?

Is there a way to fix the second playback issue for 4K files if desktop resolution is set to 1080p?
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Old 18th October 2017, 16:39   #46693  |  Link
mzso
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@madshi

These new algorithms pretty darn good for image processing:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121039

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121038

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/121040


I think you should release a tool or even better a paint.net plugin for these, they're worthy of it. I couldn't get a palatable result result for these images with paint.net filters ( even including some third party plugins)

Ironically I don't find them very practical for video, because even these photos took several minutes of trial and error, videos would take even longer and I'd have to optimize for ever video (or at least ones that are not related to each other). Also my GPU is not beefy enough to run these too in real time.

Last edited by mzso; 19th October 2017 at 09:23.
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Old 18th October 2017, 18:19   #46694  |  Link
Blackwalker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackwalker View Post
- change the nvidia power setting to adaptive, same thing...shuttering
- checking GPU-Z if the PCIe speed is at least x16 2 yes, but when play all gpu ram is used, maybe this is the problem?
- reduced the render queue to 6 and 4, same thing...shuttering


if someone confirm that my hardware is ok, i'll continue to try, if no my hardware need an upgrade!
maybe "EVGA GTX1060 Scheda Grafica da 6 GB" + "new CPU and motherboard"!


PS:
On my tv, lg 65b6v i set "HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour" option
when HTPC start is already in HDR mode.
When mpc-hc start playing UHD HDR video, using madvr in window mode it say "HDR", but when i double click and use full windows/exclusive mode, the "HDR" vanish, go out, bye bye.....this is normal?
I try with madvr, native, copy back, etcc...same thing.
If i dont use madvr, then HDR is used in full windows/exclusive mode too!

Same with powerdvd.



suggestions?
thx all for your help

Someone?


Quote:
Originally Posted by KeVe1983 View Post
Hopefully someone can help

Following:

HTPC running Kodi 17.4 DSPlayer + madVR

Intel i3
Nvidia GT 1030
4GB RAM

Connected to Denon AVR X1200
Beamer Acer M550 4K HDR connected to Denon
Used HDMI cables are fine and support all i need

I can set 4k resolution in NVCC
60Hz but only RGB Full @8Bit

HEVC Playback works fine but HDR seems very dark
Beamer is switching to 4K 60Hz and recognize HDR automatically
I can stop a video file and start another one without issues.

I can also set 1080p 60Hz RGB Full with 12Bit in NVCC
I can play one HEVC 4K HDR file
Beamer is switching to 4K 60Hz and recognize HDR automatically
I can stop the file but i can't play another one

If i start another file Beamer is Switching to 4K 60Hz HDR, but i get back on the desktop and there is just a black square about 25% over my desktop. Have to kill Kodi with Taskmanager.

It seems there is a problem while switching the resolution after playing one file. I also played around with exclusive full screen, but that did not help.


Is there a resolution for dark HDR image quality if Desktop is set to 4k resolution?

Is there a way to fix the second playback issue for 4K files if desktop resolution is set to 1080p?

maybe i'll give a try to Kodi 17.4 DSPlayer + madVR.
Settings are easy?
thx
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Old 18th October 2017, 19:44   #46695  |  Link
Werewolfy
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Well, seems you had the same thought as I had. Now the big question is if the expert users in this forum can agree on the best setting for each strength?
I did some tests and for my part I prefer strength 1-2 without "Don't reduce texture detail" activated because I can't see better details preservation with these low strenghts but I definitely see more compression artifacts.

For strength 3-10, I prefer when this option is activated, it does help to retain some details.

Strength 3 is quite debatable though... It depends if you value more perserving details or reducing compression artifacts. I switched on and off a lot of times but each time, I've found that I have a slight preference for "Don't reduce texture detail" activated in this case.

Strength 11-12 is so high that this option doesn't seem to make a difference so I woudn't activated if it aims very very blocky sources and if it could misses some artifacts. It's just a guess though I don't have sources to really test these extreme strengths.
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Old 18th October 2017, 23:57   #46696  |  Link
ashlar42
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Hi madshi, unfortunately I have not conducted organized tests. But, as I mentioned initially, the higher settings on RCA and RRN make wonders on badly compressed old anime (talking about less than 100MB for 20mins episode). As such, I hope that whatever setting you'll end up making available on a permanent basis will keep really low quality sources in mind.
Thanks.

Edit: also regarding Fall Windows Update... I am on Business Branch and I've opted for deferring feature updates up to 365 days. But, really, Microsoft is doing its worst nowadays to make me hate their business practices.
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Old 19th October 2017, 00:44   #46697  |  Link
ryrynz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werewolfy View Post
Strength 11-12 is so high that this option doesn't seem to make a difference so I woudn't activated if it aims very very blocky sources and if it could misses some artifacts. It's just a guess though I don't have sources to really test these extreme strengths.
Check this out, cut from a particularly low quality release of '94 cartoon, The Tick.

Personally I feel 11 and 12 are so heavy that DRTD should be enabled, I can't imagine any scenario where having it off would be beneficial. Even with the above video being almost as bad as they come I still think the absolute limit I would ever use on that is 10, above that as resemblance of lines/objects pretty much disappear. 3 and above with DRTD has my vote.
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Old 19th October 2017, 02:17   #46698  |  Link
wushantao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wushantao View Post
hi @madshi

there is a crash report here

v0.92.7 & v0.92.6 crash

v0.92.5&v0.92.4&v0.92.3 unknow,not test


crash step:
1、play a movie file
2、full screen
3、pause play back(don’t touch anything,just stop)
4、auto close screen(by power management setting)
5、wait 1 minute more
6、open screen(move mouse or touch any keyboard)
7、you can see crash now

other info:
win10 x64 15063、mpc be x64 v1.5.2、lav x64 v0.70.2、16G ram、i7 4760HQ、iris 5200

there is a crash report and settings.bin

Attachment 16093
Attachment 16094
i hope this information is useful for bug fix
update:

win10 x64 1709(10.0.16299.19)

not crash,but black screen,can‘t see any image,audio is ok
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Old 19th October 2017, 02:50   #46699  |  Link
ryrynz
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Yeah, think that's what I've been seeing. I have my screen set to 5 minutes before it blanks, if it sits there for a certain amount of time, madVR never recovers (picture is frozen) and I have to shutdown MPC-BE and start again.
A few nights ago I saw the screen blank and within a few seconds got the picture back up and madVR played fine. madshi, it looks like you may need to look at a way of re-establishing the connection for proper playback when this happens.
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Old 19th October 2017, 05:54   #46700  |  Link
leeperry
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with RCA@1 DRTD doesn't look nearly as soft but also removes less artifacts indeed so it's a mixed bag, I guess you'd need to work your magic again and refine it please
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