Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - DXVA!

[racerxnet]

Hi Everyone,

I have loaded the files for EVR on XP and EVR is selectable in MPC. It will play the movie, but functions are very limited.

I have read through many pages, and have a problem with menu selection at the beginning of a SD DVD. As the mouse pointer is moved over the selection, I get no action on the click event. Also, there is no seek or skip function when clicking the icons.

Is there a solution other than using VRM9? Not sure how many of you are using EVR on XP, but I thought to give it a try and compare picture quality. I disabled the external filters because from what I read, EVR will not use a external decoder.

WinXP SP2 with EVR files registered
C2 Duo 6320
ATI 3850 8.4 drivers
2 Gigs ram
MPC HC latest update

Any help is appreciated.

MAK

[burfadel]

Originally Posted by rack04

I bought a copy of Vista that I'm going to dual boot with XP. Is there a way to have two copies of MPC-HC running with different settings, i.e. VMR9 on XP and EVR Custom on Vista?

Why run with different settings? If you have XP fully updated that means you'd have to download the latest directx (it updates every couple of months) and NET framework on top of sp3. Microsoft doesn't include new versions of stuff with service packs. sp3 still updates it as IE6, which is why there's a separate IE7 refreshed download you have to install in addition to sp3! stupid I know.

If you complain about having to install net framework (get 3.5), you shouldn't. Its going to become a lot more common place in the future. Vista includes framework 3, and is quickly updated to 3.5.

Net framework 3 and above have the EVR renderer built in to it, its actually a Net framework based renderer! So it applies for both XP and vista. Once installed, evr custom presenter works just as well on XP as it does on vista.

Most of the problems (not all) with evr and other renderers is people don't have their computer updated.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by burfadel

the EVR renderer built in to it, its actually a Net framework based renderer!

do you have any link that backs up this statement please ?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

tearing is because of CCC it seems.

you could also try to uninstall all your ATi software, then use Driver Cleaner, restart again and only install the 8.4 drivers....not CCC

CCC introduces tearing!?

Originally Posted by Leak

I would hazard a guess that setting VSync to "Always on" in Catalyst Control Center should do the trick, since Haali uses D3D as well...

Unfortunately it doesn't help much. With VSync set to "Always on" I still have tearing. It's always at the same place, though, which is at the very bottom of the screen. With 2.35:1 movies the tearing is hidden by the black bars. But with 1.78:1 movies the tearing is very visible...

[Shinigami-Sama]

Originally Posted by leeperry

do you have any link that backs up this statement please ?

its included with .net 3 for one

[neoufo51]

I'm running XP with .net3 installed and both of my EVR settings are selectable.

I have a question though. Is anybody else running FFDShow or CCCP? I thought MPC-HC's ffmpeg based decoder was a better alternative? I assumed that one of the advantages of MPC-HC was to never have to download another codec pack again since it plays pretty much every file I need by itself and Haali's renderer. Plus, its ffmpeg based internal decoder is faster than Mplayer at playing 1080p Quicktime trailers.

I think I'll try and compare each renderer when I get home to see overall playback quality and how much RAM it uses up using only the built-in decoder, then I'll post my findings.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

Originally Posted by neoufo51

I have a question though. Is anybody else running FFDShow or CCCP? I thought MPC-HC's ffmpeg based decoder was a better alternative? I assumed that one of the advantages of MPC-HC was to never have to download another codec pack again since it plays pretty much every file I need by itself and Haali's renderer. Plus, its ffmpeg based internal decoder is faster than Mplayer at playing 1080p Quicktime trailers.

1. ffdshow is not a Codec Pack !!!
2. Both, MPC-HC's internal H.264 decoder and ffdshow's H.264 decoder, are based on code from "ffmpeg" project (libavcodec)
3. As long as you are using "software" mode, the performance of MPC-HC's internal decoder should be no different from ffdshow
4. The advantage of MPC-HC's internal decoder over ffdshow is DXVA support (hardware acceleration)

[mrtemp]

what about this bug?
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index...61&atid=854651
for me subtitles working only with vmr7
version MPC-HC v1.0.11.0 is ok, but next releases are bugged
actually i use VSFilter.dll added as external filter for fix this problem

where can i find language files for mpc-hc?

and sorry for my english

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

CCC introduces tearing!?

well if you check the link I gave you, noee can get regular EVR working fine on his XP SP3 box.

he doesn't have CCC installed and we have same graphic card.

I've never been able to get non customized EVR to work w/o tearing in the middle of the screen......and I've asked several friends of mine, they've never managed either, whatever on ATi or nvidia.

at some point I unchecked "use centered timings" in CCC, and my tearing was gone ?!

.....but then after I messed even further with CCC, it came back

Originally Posted by Shinigami-Sama

its included with .net 3 for one

well the way I see it, this build of EVR works fine on XP.
m$ doesn't want everyone to know that EVR can work on XP, so they've released it in a programming package and you have to manually rgvsvr32 it....and that's it, for Vista upward compatiblity.

I've ran many tests with the later versions of EVR(from Vista beta SP1 and Vista SP1), and they crap out badly on XP after 45/60 mins......they also include known bugs on XP(floating point bug, etc...) but who can blame non-XP dll's to fail on XP ?

I highly doubt that this renderer was programmed in .net language

[Shinigami-Sama]

Originally Posted by leeperry

I highly doubt that this renderer was programmed in .net language

they(MS) also released a .net based SDK to create xbox games - XNA, and is c# based
so a .net renderer doesn't sound far fetched to me

[Leak]

Originally Posted by Shinigami-Sama

they(MS) also released a .net based SDK to create xbox games - XNA, and is c# based
so a .net renderer doesn't sound far fetched to me

Ugh... the renderer isn't implemented in CLR (C#/VB.Net/etc.) but in plain C++, just like all other time-critical multimedia stuff.

The .Net 3.0 framework does come with bindings for using the EVR renderer from .Net, which the earlier renderers don't. That's why they've thrown in a version of EVR for Windows XP with the .Net 3.0 installer, so .Net applications using it also work on XP. And you don't have to register the renderer using regsvr32 if you plan to use it directly from an application.

So you could implement a media player in C# that uses EVR easier than one that uses VMR9 - that's all there is to it.

np: John Dahlbäck - Wet Summer (Speicher CD3)

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

well if you check the link I gave you, noee can get regular EVR working fine on his XP SP3 box.

he doesn't have CCC installed and we have same graphic card.

Well, ok, so one guy claims to have no tearing and his setup happens to be without CCC. But I don't think we can conclude from that that CCC introduces tearing. I find it rather unlikely that CCC can introduce tearing. After all CCC is basically just a front end.

Originally Posted by leeperry

I've never been able to get non customized EVR to work w/o tearing in the middle of the screen......and I've asked several friends of mine, they've never managed either, whatever on ATi or nvidia.

I' never been able to get *any* renderer (except maybe Overlay, not sure) to work without tearing on the secondary DVI port of my ATI 3850. The only thing that helps for me is the Direct3D Fullscreen mode. I'm very unhappy about this cause I'd really love to use the Haali Renderer...

Originally Posted by Shinigami-Sama

they(MS) also released a .net based SDK to create xbox games - XNA, and is c# based
so a .net renderer doesn't sound far fetched to me

EVR is definitely NOT written in .net. You can see that if you load evr.dll into a PE file viewer. The dlls it imports clearly show that evr.dll is not written in .net.

[iron2000]

Originally Posted by leeperry

HR is indeed the smoothest renderer on PC....but its BT709 matrix is just wrong(it's a problem on both nvidia and ati cards)

so use it in RGB32HQ if you care about smooth playback and correct colors

my colorspace comparison on EVR is valid for all ATi cards and all renderers(except HR), dunno about nvidia..

How do I set the RGB32HQ part?
And for that is it better for HR to be in TV or PC luma range?

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

I' never been able to get *any* renderer (except maybe Overlay, not sure) to work without tearing on the secondary DVI port of my ATI 3850. The only thing that helps for me is the Direct3D Fullscreen mode. I'm very unhappy about this cause I'd really love to use the Haali Renderer...

well yeah, on some graphic cards both DVI outputs are managed by the GPU, and on some others there's a separate TMDS chip that takes care of it....badly or successfully depending on the maker

it's explained here (babelfish it up, it's in french) :
http://www.erenumerique.fr/qualite_d...art-820-9.html

MSI videocards are known to have piss poor DVI outputs(long cables won't work, bad blanking timings, etc..) and it's been measured here :
http://www.erenumerique.fr/qualite_d...rt-820-18.html

your best bet for ATi are Sapphire / HiS and Diamond(in no specific order).

I've got my HC3100 projector connected with a DVI/HDMI 8ft Monster cable to the secondary output of my PCI-E HD2600 Sapphire, and the only renderer that gives tearing is non customized EVR(on both DVI outputs anyhow).

Originally Posted by iron2000

How do I set the RGB32HQ part?
And for that is it better for HR to be in TV or PC luma range?

in ffdshow, but then you have to pick between BT601/709 whether it's SD/HD material.

leave it on TV...but it's not used if you output RGB from ffdshow anyhow

[iron2000]

I have set up autoload presets for SD and HD by differentiating the video size.

I suppose RGB32HQ is output by RGB32 only with high quality YV12 to RGB conversion?
My PC can't play the really HQ 1920x1080 BD-rip in that setting.
So I set it to use the default colorspaces for that video size.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

well yeah, on some graphic cards both DVI outputs are managed by the GPU, and on some others there's a separate TMDS chip that takes care of it....badly or successfully depending on the maker

it's explained here (babelfish it up, it's in french) :
http://www.erenumerique.fr/qualite_d...art-820-9.html

MSI videocards are known to have piss poor DVI outputs(long cables won't work, bad blanking timings, etc..) and it's been measured here :
http://www.erenumerique.fr/qualite_d...rt-820-18.html

your best bet for ATi are Sapphire / HiS and Diamond(in no specific order).

I've got my HC3100 projector connected with a DVI/HDMI 8ft Monster cable to the secondary output of my PCI-E HD2600 Sapphire, and the only renderer that gives tearing is non customized EVR(on both DVI outputs anyhow).

Mine is from Club3D.

If this is a hardware problem then how come that I've never ever in my life seen even the slightest hint of tearing when using the Direct3D fullscreen mode?

[leeperry]

@madshi:
might be hardware or BIOS dependent.

ask your mobo/graphic card manufacturers if they don't have newer BIOS.

or try to borrow a card of the brands I mentionned above

@iron2000:
yes, that's it "HQ conversion".
well I've just upgraded my CPU to be able to use RGB32HQ in any given situation

[wozio]

Originally Posted by madshi

If this is a hardware problem then how come that I've never ever in my life seen even the slightest hint of tearing when using the Direct3D fullscreen mode?

Tearing is not hardware dependent, it's windows driver/direct3d architecture that prevents precisely syncing to beam in windowed D3D mode (so VMR9, MPC in renderless, HR). That's why you never get tearing in overlay renderer which is purely in hardware.

You can read it in more detail here.

Regards
Piotr

[madshi]

Originally Posted by wozio

Tearing is not hardware dependent, it's windows driver/direct3d architecture that prevents precisely syncing to beam in windowed D3D mode (so VMR9, MPC in renderless, HR). That's why you never get tearing in overlay renderer which is purely in hardware.

You can read it in more detail here.

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense to me. But I'm still wondering: Why do I have tearing with the HR while most other people here seemingly don't?

[leeperry]

on that link Avery Lee(?) says :

One way to do this is to synchronize rendering with the output scan so that it always happens during the vertical blank

Many video display chips can report the current vertical location of the output scan, which then allows the screen to be updated during the visible portion as well.

and on that french link I gave earlier, it's said that MSI cards have bad blanking timings.

it all relates.

and the fact that HR gives tearing on your system is quite a good clue that there's sumthing funky happening in your graphic card or your motherboard that doesn't handle the transactions properly.....because I've never heard of anybody experiencing tearing w/ HR.

I guess your only option is to try with a different video card, and if it still occurs.....try it on another mobo.