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Old 23rd December 2004, 22:50   #161  |  Link
Gabriel_Bouvigne
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I'd vote for the hint if users want to be informed of matching presets names.
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Old 23rd December 2004, 23:53   #162  |  Link
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Yes, I put some info into the hints. I think it's the more clearly. Tell me if it's ok ...

So, I made a new beta : 0.21 beta 2.

changelog:
- Improvements concerning the mp3 tab, as Gabriel asked.
- Bug correction for the overwrite (the last beta bOrked with this).
- Quick update of the doc concerning the new mp3 part. Read 1st before to use it.

That's all...
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Old 24th December 2004, 05:17   #163  |  Link
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is it possible to have mp3 options like cdex uses? if not, that's cool, I still love this new gui
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Old 24th December 2004, 10:00   #164  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by SiXXGuNNZ
is it possible to have mp3 options like cdex uses?
Nope...If I managed the new mp3 tab with these betas, it's not to change once again.

BTW, It seems that the link for this last beta is temporary dead. If someone can host it, contact me by MP or here...

Last edited by Kurtnoise; 28th December 2004 at 02:38.
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Old 24th December 2004, 11:06   #165  |  Link
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I'd have voted for the label, but that may be not wanting to let go of the presets. So I'll be content having a preset hint.
Unfortunately both links are not working at the moment, so I can't test beta2 right now.
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Old 24th December 2004, 11:37   #166  |  Link
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Try once again...
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Old 25th December 2004, 03:28   #167  |  Link
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Re: Re: bugs in v0.20 final

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurtnoise13
Maybe your plugin is outdated...
Bingo. But strange indeed, that the plug-in packed with winamp is THAT ...retarded.
thx.

You're damn fast, testing 0.21 beta 2 now, hope your X-Mas-evening was fun so far! Hoho...
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Old 26th December 2004, 00:44   #168  |  Link
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Hi, Kurtnoise13.

Merry Christmas!
While playing around with BeLight 0.21 beta 2 I found a bunch of issues. Please check if it's bugs or features or me doing something wrong.
  • On startup, when input/output files already had been selected, logfile name is reduced to its file extension. Also when changing encoder tabs, output file name gets reduced to its file extension.
  • When disabling azid's dynamic compression and then checking any other option, "-c" reappears in the command string, but the GUI checkbox stays unchecked.
  • Boost: For DSPguru's algorithm "/l=0.95" is not written to command string. Is this intentional?
  • When switching from a different language back to English, the "recommanded" typo on Vorbis tab still exists.
  • For dialog normalization reduction "-n" is written to command string, which doesn't enable DNR. The switch needs a nonzero number as an argument: "-n 1" or "-n1". It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes.
    Note: Should you consider implementing rear channel filtering into BeLight at some time, it works the same. "-f 1" or "-f1" are needed to enable the function properly.
  • AAC: When switching from vbr to cbr, "-vbr_..." remains in the command string in addition to "-cbr".
  • When AAC tab was selected before closing BeLight, on startup no bsn-section is written to command string.
  • AAC: When switching from Stereo to 5.1 (or vice versa) every checkbox on the tab gets unchecked. The command string is emptied accordingly.
  • When "Profiles" checkbox is not checked and you chose a vbr preset or cbr bitrate, "-aacprofile_he" is always added to command string.
  • When mp3 tab is selected on startup, an empty lame section "-lame( )" appears in the command string.
  • MP2: When you switch encoder engine to MP2enc and then check anything on that tab, command string goes back to "-toolame(...)".
  • MP2: When you choose a different "Encoding Mode" than "Joint Stereo" and then check anything else on the tab, command string changes back to "-m j".
  • MP2: Is it ok that "Total bitrate" and "VBR mode" can be selected together? I thought the -b switch was only for cbr.

Things related to "LFE to LR" and "Output mode" on Advanced settings tab.
  • In 5.1 mode both options cannot be checked. Imo disabling the checkboxes completely would be clearer.
  • When you switch from Stereo to 5.1 mode, both options are removed from command string but not unchecked unless you click on them.
  • When switching from Stereo to 5.1 on one encoder tab, then changing to another encoder tab where Stereo is selected (or no 5.1 possible), both options stay disabled. You have to go back to the tab where you switched to 5.1 channels and switch back to Stereo there. Even switching to 5.1 and back to Stereo on a different tab does not enable the two options.
  • When switching from 5.1 back to Stereo on Vorbis tab, both options get enabled and checked in the GUI again but no change to the command string occurs.
  • In 5.1 mode when both options are disabled, clicking on "LFE to LR" does not change the GUI but puts "-s" into the command string and deletes "-L" from it. When clicking on "Output mode" it's the other way round.
  • When "LFE to LR" is unchecked and "Output mode" checked, unchecking "Output mode" removes "-s" but adds "-L" to command string.
  • When selecting 5.1 output on WAV/PCM tab, you can still check both options.
  • When both options are unchecked, checking "LFE to LR" adds both "-L" and "-s" to command string.
All this makes me believe the on/off automatic for the two functions might need some fine tuning.


Suggestions
  • Boost: On the German Doom9 forum LigH suggested for his LigH algorithm a boost factor of 3 and for DSPguru's algorithm a boost factor of 4 as appropriate and safe settings. Maybe change BeLight's values accordingly?
  • When BeSweet.exe is not there in BeLight's directory the "Start" button simply does nothing. A little note on the reason for the error would be nice.

Lame question: (Gabriel, you might know best)
Is a lame command line of "-m j -v --vbr-old -V 2" equivalent to "--preset standard"? At least that is BeLight's command line for the quality slider's "preset standard" position (similar for the other presets). The answer is especially important for Lame 3.90 because that's the version shipping with latest BeSweet 1.5b29.

Before I forget: Kurtnoise13, could you provide an updated translation file? With the new mp3 tab translations will need updating.

P.S.: The overwrite dialog is great. I've always missed that in BeSweet/BeSweetGUI. Oh, and now that I see the mp3 quality hint: it's definitely better than a label.
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Old 26th December 2004, 09:32   #169  |  Link
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
On startup, when input/output files already had been selected, logfile name is reduced to its file extension. Also when changing encoder tabs, output file name gets reduced to its file extension.
Yes I know...I must fix it right now.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
When disabling azid's dynamic compression and then checking any other option, "-c" reappears in the command string, but the GUI checkbox stays unchecked.
ok...I'll fix it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
Boost: For DSPguru's algorithm "/l=0.95" is not written to command string. Is this intentional?
No, sorry. It's not intentional.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
When switching from a different language back to English, the "recommanded" typo on Vorbis tab still exists.
Yes I know...It's fixed now.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
For dialog normalization reduction "-n" is written to command string, which doesn't enable DNR. The switch needs a nonzero number as an argument: "-n 1" or "-n1". It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes.
Are you sure ? When I checked Azid documentation, I saw -n function for DNR. Maybe I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
Note: Should you consider implementing rear channel filtering into BeLight at some time, it works the same. "-f 1" or "-f1" are needed to enable the function properly.
Ok, I can add it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
AAC: When switching from vbr to cbr, "-vbr_..." remains in the command string in addition to "-cbr".[*]When AAC tab was selected before closing BeLight, on startup no bsn-section is written to command string.[*]AAC: When switching from Stereo to 5.1 (or vice versa) every checkbox on the tab gets unchecked. The command string is emptied accordingly.[*]When "Profiles" checkbox is not checked and you chose a vbr preset or cbr bitrate, "-aacprofile_he" is always added to command string.[*]When mp3 tab is selected on startup, an empty lame section "-lame( )" appears in the command string.[*]MP2: When you switch encoder engine to MP2enc and then check anything on that tab, command string goes back to "-toolame(...)".[*]MP2: When you choose a different "Encoding Mode" than "Joint Stereo" and then check anything else on the tab, command string changes back to "-m j".
aa yes...stupid bugs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
MP2: Is it ok that "Total bitrate" and "VBR mode" can be selected together? I thought the -b switch was only for cbr.
The -b switch works for vbr too.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
In 5.1 mode both options cannot be checked. Imo disabling the checkboxes completely would be clearer.[*]When you switch from Stereo to 5.1 mode, both options are removed from command string but not unchecked unless you click on them.[*]When switching from Stereo to 5.1 on one encoder tab, then changing to another encoder tab where Stereo is selected (or no 5.1 possible), both options stay disabled. You have to go back to the tab where you switched to 5.1 channels and switch back to Stereo there. Even switching to 5.1 and back to Stereo on a different tab does not enable the two options.[*]When switching from 5.1 back to Stereo on Vorbis tab, both options get enabled and checked in the GUI again but no change to the command string occurs.[*]In 5.1 mode when both options are disabled, clicking on "LFE to LR" does not change the GUI but puts "-s" into the command string and deletes "-L" from it. When clicking on "Output mode" it's the other way round.[*]When "LFE to LR" is unchecked and "Output mode" checked, unchecking "Output mode" removes "-s" but adds "-L" to command string.[*]When selecting 5.1 output on WAV/PCM tab, you can still check both options.[*]When both options are unchecked, checking "LFE to LR" adds both "-L" and "-s" to command string.
Some of these bugs are known but thanks to point me out the others. I'm fixing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
Boost: On the German Doom9 forum LigH suggested for his LigH algorithm a boost factor of 3 and for DSPguru's algorithm a boost factor of 4 as appropriate and safe settings. Maybe change BeLight's values accordingly?
Ok, no problem.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
When BeSweet.exe is not there in BeLight's directory the "Start" button simply does nothing. A little note on the reason for the error would be nice.
Yes, for sure.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John

Lame question: (Gabriel, you might know best)
Is a lame command line of "-m j -v --vbr-old -V 2" equivalent to "--preset standard"? At least that is BeLight's command line for the quality slider's "preset standard" position (similar for the other presets). The answer is especially important for Lame 3.90 because that's the version shipping with latest BeSweet 1.5b29.
Gabriel should know that better than me, but check this post on HA. BeLight is based on these equivalences.


Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
Before I forget: Kurtnoise13, could you provide an updated translation file? With the new mp3 tab translations will need updating.
Not for the moment coz I need to rewrite the language support in my code. I'll post some info on this subject as soon as it will be ready.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
The overwrite dialog is great. I've always missed that in BeSweet/BeSweetGUI. Oh, and now that I see the mp3 quality hint: it's definitely better than a label.


Anyway, thank you for the bugs report.
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Old 26th December 2004, 10:20   #170  |  Link
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One other issue with the last beta : the new mp3 CBR Mode doesn't works properly.
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Old 26th December 2004, 16:58   #171  |  Link
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BeLight is hosted on CoreCodec now.


Many thanks to CC.org team especially Dan Marlin, Toff and BlackSun. Thanks guys.
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Old 26th December 2004, 17:38   #172  |  Link
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I updated now from 0.19 to 0.21. beta2.

Why did you delete the quality profiles in the AAC tab?
It was so functional & clearly.
I don't see any disadvantage if you would let it in the AAC tab.

edit: sorry, I forgot to look at the top, where the presets are listed.It's more clearly in this way THANKS!



Btw. what's the progres with VOBinput?


...really great work!

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Old 26th December 2004, 19:35   #173  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by filewalker
Btw. what's the progres with VOBinput?
under construction...I've a bunch of errors to fix before to add new thing.

BTW if your VOB contains only one audio stream and you have VOBInput.dll in BeLight folder, all should work fine by choosing "All Files" from the input list normally...
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Old 27th December 2004, 00:05   #174  |  Link
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Quote:
Is a lame command line of "-m j -v --vbr-old -V 2" equivalent to "--preset standard"?
With 3.94 and upper, yes.
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Old 27th December 2004, 15:48   #175  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel_Bouvigne
With 3.94 and upper, yes.
Unfortunately latest BeSweet archive contains Lame dll 3.90. That's why I think it would be a good idea to use --preset command line for preset slider positions. At least until BeSweet comes with a more recent Lame dll.
Thanks for the HA link, Kurt. Interesting read!

Concerning DNR: Yes, I'm sure it has to be "-n1". BeSweet documentation gives "-n BOOL" as syntax. I also tested this command line:
Code:
besweet.exe -core( -input "Audio eng.ac3" -output Test.m4a ) -azid( -n ) -bsn( -6chnew )
BeSweet tells me:
Code:
[00:00:00:000] |  Dialog normalization: No
When changing Azid section to "-azid( -n1 )" DNR is active. In fact any nonzero value will do.

Another 3 things I found:
  • Vorbis: BeLight's CBR mode actually produces an ABR file, e.g. "-b 128 -m 96 -M 256" and "-b 128" result in bit-identical files. Encoder version was 1.1.0.
    From oggenc's documentation: "-b n, --bitrate=n. Sets encoding to the bitrate closest to n (in kb/s)." Does Vorbis even have a CBR mode?
  • Lame: CBR bitrate slider should be restricted to valid cbr bitrates. BeSweet aborts otherwise ("Error 47: Error with Lame dll"). Did you mean that when saying "the new mp3 CBR Mode doesn't works properly"?
  • Lame: Minimum allowed bitrate for "--abr" is 77 for v3.90 and 72 for v3.96. "Error 47" will occur when lower.
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Old 27th December 2004, 16:10   #176  |  Link
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Quote:
Lame: Minimum allowed bitrate for "--abr" is 77 for v3.90 and 72 for v3.96. "Error 47" will occur when lower.
For 3.96 the minimum abr bitrate is 8.
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Old 27th December 2004, 16:12   #177  |  Link
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BeSweet and BeLight are using the Lame dll or the Lame exe?
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Old 27th December 2004, 16:23   #178  |  Link
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BeSweet uses lame dll.

lame_enc.dll
140800 bytes
08/08/2003, 14:59

When transcoding to MP3 this message appears:
"Using lame_enc.dll v1.32 (8/8/2003), Engine 3.90 <http://www.mp3dev.org/>."

You can of course use a differen lame_enc.dll, but above is the one shipped with BeSweet.

Edit:
Tested the min bitrates using stereo wave input in 44.1 and 48 kHz. My 3.96 dll is dated 07/26/2004. Downloaded from rarewares.org iirc.
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Old 27th December 2004, 18:31   #179  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
Concerning DNR: Yes, I'm sure it has to be "-n1". BeSweet documentation gives "-n BOOL" as syntax. I also tested this command line:
Code:
besweet.exe -core( -input "Audio eng.ac3" -output Test.m4a ) -azid( -n ) -bsn( -6chnew )
BeSweet tells me:
Code:
[00:00:00:000] |  Dialog normalization: No
When changing Azid section to "-azid( -n1 )" DNR is active. In fact any nonzero value will do.
That's pretty strange indeed...

I tested on my first sample (AC3_6ch 48 KHz) :
Code:
BeSweet v1.5b29 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.9 (b922) by Midas  (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using libVorbis.dll v1.0 ( Sep 24 2004 ) by John33 (www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00).

Logging start : 12/27/04 , 17:48:45.

BeSweet.exe -core( -input D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
-output D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg 
-logfile D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.log ) 
-azid( -n -s stereo -c normal -L -3db ) 
-ota( -hybridgain ) -ogg( -q 0.200 ) 

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----                          
[00:00:00:000] |  Input : D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
[00:00:00:000] |  Output: D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg
[00:00:00:000] |  Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] |  PostGain normalize to : 0.97
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------                              
[00:00:00:000] |  Input Channels Mode: 3/2, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] |  Output Stereo mode: Dolby surround compatible
[00:00:00:000] |  Total Gain: 10.000dB, Compression:  Normal 
[00:00:00:000] |  LFE levels: To LR -3.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] |  Center   mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] |  Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] |  Dialog normalization: -4dB
[00:00:00:000] |  Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] |  Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- OGG --------
[00:00:00:000] |  VBR Quality     : 0.200
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:02:17:056] Gain of 5.7dB had been asserted to file.
[00:02:17:056] Conversion Completed !
[00:02:17:056] Actual Avg. Bitrate  : 95kbps
[00:00:51:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/27/04 , 17:49:36.
Code:
BeSweet v1.5b29 by DSPguru.
--------------------------
Using azid.dll v1.9 (b922) by Midas  (midas@egon.gyaloglo.hu).
Using libVorbis.dll v1.0 ( Sep 24 2004 ) by John33 (www.inf.ufpr.br/~rja00).

Logging start : 12/27/04 , 17:51:33.

BeSweet.exe -core( -input D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
-output D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg 
-logfile D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.log ) 
-azid( -n1 -s stereo -c normal -L -3db ) 
-ota( -hybridgain ) -ogg( -q 0.200 ) 

[00:00:00:000] +------- BeSweet -----                          
[00:00:00:000] |  Input : D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ac3
[00:00:00:000] |  Output: D:\Music\CHAPTER_17.ogg
[00:00:00:000] |  Floating-Point Process: Yes
[00:00:00:000] |  PostGain normalize to : 0.97
[00:00:00:000] +-------- AZID -------                              
[00:00:00:000] |  Input Channels Mode: 3/2, Bitrate: 448kbps
[00:00:00:000] |  Output Stereo mode: Stereo
[00:00:00:000] |  Total Gain: 10.000dB, Compression:  Normal 
[00:00:00:000] |  LFE levels: To LR -3.0dB, To LFE 0.0dB
[00:00:00:000] |  Center   mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] |  Surround mix level: BSI
[00:00:00:000] |  Dialog normalization: -4dB
[00:00:00:000] |  Rear channels filtering: No
[00:00:00:000] |  Source Sample-Rate: 48.0KHz
[00:00:00:000] +-------- OGG --------
[00:00:00:000] |  VBR Quality     : 0.200
[00:00:00:000] +---------------------
[00:02:17:056] Gain of 4.9dB had been asserted to file.
[00:02:17:056] Conversion Completed !
[00:02:17:056] Actual Avg. Bitrate  : 90kbps
[00:00:46:000] <-- Transcoding Duration

Logging ends : 12/27/04 , 17:52:19.
Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
Vorbis: BeLight's CBR mode actually produces an ABR file, e.g. "-b 128 -m 96 -M 256" and "-b 128" result in bit-identical files. Encoder version was 1.1.0.
From oggenc's documentation: "-b n, --bitrate=n. Sets encoding to the bitrate closest to n (in kb/s)." Does Vorbis even have a CBR mode?
mmh yes...check the ML.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brother John
[*]Lame: CBR bitrate slider should be restricted to valid cbr bitrates. BeSweet aborts otherwise ("Error 47: Error with Lame dll"). Did you mean that when saying "the new mp3 CBR Mode doesn't works properly"?
yes...exactly.

Last edited by Kurtnoise; 27th December 2004 at 18:40.
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Old 27th December 2004, 20:05   #180  |  Link
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DNR: It works because you were doing a downmix to stereo using -c and -hybridgain. As I wrote above: "It might work nonetheless when using hybridgain or dynamic compression "-c" because those functions enable DNR automatically for 5.1 downmixes." In fact using hybridgain enables DNR automatically even if you keep the 6ch. Do a 5.1 -> 5.1 transcoding with pregain/postgain/no gain at all like in my example. DNR will stay disabled when using "-n". If you don't have Nero, try 6ch vorbis.

Vorbis: Maybe BeSweet does not support CBR Vorbis? After all it's only available since 1.1.0.
Well, to make sure I encoded the same file (16bit stereo wave) twice. libvorbis.dll used was the v1.1.0 compile from rarewares.org (P4 version) dated 2004-09-24.
Code:
besweet.exe -core( -input testin.wav -output test_cbr.ogg ) -ogg( -b 128 )
and
Code:
besweet.exe -core( -input testin.wav -output test_abr.ogg ) -ogg( -b 128 -m 96 -M 256 )
The resulting files - in contrast to my statement above - are exactly the same size but not bit-identical.
However, ogginfo tells me this for test_cbr.ogg:
Code:
Processing file "test_cbr.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 000073f8): type vorbis
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 1, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20040920
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate not set
Lower bitrate not set
User comments section follows...
        ENCODED_USING=Made with BeSweet v1.5b29
        ENCODER_URL=http://DSPguru.doom9.org
Vorbis stream 1:
        Total data length: 2353385 bytes
        Playback length: 2m:25.053s
        Average bitrate: 129,794191 kb/s
Logical stream 1 ended
129,794191 kbps looks a lot like abr to me. And the number is exactly the same for test_abr.ogg.

Then I did another test:
Code:
besweet.exe -core( -input testin.wav -output test_cbr2.ogg ) -ogg( -b 128 -m 128 -M 128 )
Even for this file ogginfo displays an average bitrate of 129,794191 kbps. However, that's always really close to true 128,000. Let's see what oggenc2.exe does (Oggenc2.3 using libVorbis v1.1.0 dated 2004-10-23; P4 compile from rarewares.org)

Command line:
Code:
oggenc2 testin.wav -b 128 -m 128 -M 128
oggenc's final output:
File length: 2m 25,0s
Elapsed time: 0m 30,0s
Rate: 4,8351
Average bitrate: 129,8 kb/s


And ogginfo output:
Code:
Processing file "test_cbr_oggenc.ogg"...

New logical stream (#1, serial: 0000092b): type vorbis
Vorbis headers parsed for stream 1, information follows...
Version: 0
Vendor: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20040920
Channels: 2
Rate: 44100

Nominal bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Upper bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Lower bitrate: 128,000000 kb/s
Vorbis stream 1:
        Total data length: 2353386 bytes
        Playback length: 2m:25.053s
        Average bitrate: 129,794246 kb/s
Logical stream 1 ended
Testing aborted. I'm confused. Are the numbers given by ogginfo and oggenc2 wrong? Is Vorbis cbr implemented with no way to use it yet? Does BeSweet support Vorbis cbr or not? Who'd want to use Vorbis cbr in the first place?
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When lost in BeSweet's options, have a look at the Commandline Reference.
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