madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

I wouldn't say that his statement said "removed deliberately", it could also mean "it didn't work, hence disabled". He does state that its not clear how future support is going to look, he doesn't say its never coming back.
madshi should totally just switch everything to D3D11.

but older WDDM 2.0 driverhad this extension.

DX9 interop is not supported on win10 so that is why the file was removed from driver 353.62. Not clear what the plan for support for this is as I am still researching this with the software team.

hard to believe. amd and intel use magic?


and about DX11. a wise men once said: "..., but D3D11 decoding API is complicated and annoying."

doesn't this count for rendering too?

[Sunset1982]

Hmmm... Sounds bad for the next weeks / months. Changed my gtx970 in my htpc with my r9 380. gtx is now doing his job in my gaming machine. Amd is doing his work in my htpc now.

[nevcairiel]

It just doesn't make any sense to assume the worst intentions from everyone, what would they have to gain by removing this deliberately, and not for technical reasons?

It's far more likely that "not supported" means it just didn't work properly, and was therefore disabled. Which could simply mean it can get fixed later if they care enough.

It's weird how on the internet everyone assumes a company is doing the worst they usually can and every statement is either a lie or legally binding, depending on what it says

TL;DR: don't jump to conclusions without any facts.

PS: updating a PC you rely on everydat to Win10 right away is kinda silly anyway. Everyone should expect hiccups in driver and software support for the first month or two.

[madshi]

They make it sound as if Windows 10 by design cannot do D3D9 interop, which is AFAIK untrue. D3D9 interop still works with AMD and Intel, no? It seems that NVidia is not aware of that pretty much every HTPC playback software (except maybe PowerDVD, I don't know) out there is still using D3D9 DXVA. Nobody I know of uses D3D11 DXVA. Of course nobody besides madVR uses OpenCL for real time video playback (except MPDN), either, so NVidia removing D3D9 interop support basically means it's only madVR which is screwed.

I'm almost tempted to "stick it to them" and refuse to do anything about it. But then, that would probably hurt users much more than NVidia. Anyway, I will still not change my time schedule. So for now NNEDI3 won't work with NVidia, when using newer drivers.

I guess that means I'll be recommending AMD GPUs from now on. I hope AMD releases next generation GPUs with HEVC DXVA, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 soon.

P.S: Of course nevcairiel is right and I might be jumping the gun here. But my experience with GPU companies is not exactly promising...

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by madshi

I guess that means I'll be recommending AMD GPUs from now on.

I don't think this would be a good idea, or has anyone proven that PCIe 3.0 is fast enough for 1080p60 NNEDI3 doubling?
This is not an uncommon task, since many YT videos now have 60fps and 4k displays are becoming popular.
And with PCIe 2.0, OpenCL NNEDI3 is totally useless either on AMD. And there's probably a bug in the drivers regarding PowerPlay which makes the interop performance even randomly worse for some users.
Bigger AMD GPUs (Hawaii, Fiji) are probably very fast with NNEDI3 SM5.0, I suppose Fiji might even could do already 1080p60 64 neurons.
Sorry, but that OpenCL implementation has become very useless now that NV is going nuts.

[madshi]

LAV Video Decoder seems to be able to easily do 4Kp24 10bit copyback via PCIe 3.0, without breaking into a sweat, and that requires more bandwidth than 1080p60.

[aufkrawall]

Is the frame not already doubled to 4k when PCIe copyback happens?

[madshi]

Ooops, yes, that's true... Anyway, I think 1080p24 is the most important, and at least that should work fine. Not sure about 60p.

[aufkrawall]

Yes, it should work, since PCIe can transfer ~190fps 1080p.
But it's still vulnerable to driver quirks, here someone only has 115fps:
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulle...8&postcount=62

And crazy AMD drivers can interfere even worse, only 36fps with PCIe 2.0:
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulle...3&postcount=12

Some weird PowerPlay behavior:
http://www.forum-3dcenter.org/vbulle...4&postcount=63

I don't think a copyback solution would ever be "clean" and thus stable for everybody. AMD still doesn't seem to have fully fixed flawed performance after 13.12 driver or it was never really stable.

With SM5.0, results would be totally reliable. Either GPU ist fast enough or it's not and the driver hardly has any opportunity to interfere.
Maybe peformance can be further improved for SM5.0? e.g. Prefer Vector is much faster on Maxwell than other options.

[huhn]

there are cards that doesn't get 24 fps.

and 13.12 is just faster in term of openCL performance the number of frames that can be copied is the same.

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by huhn

there are cards that doesn't get 24 fps.

I'm not sure I'm getting what you mean.
Copyback performance can even be worse with smaller Radeons?
This would be bad. Then probably NNEDI3 could be used on more cards in general if done via SM5.0.

Btw: 300 Radeon series refresh introduced much improved cooling systems like already known from Maxwell cards. Very good for "highend" HTPCs with enough compute power for NNEDI3.

Originally Posted by huhn

and 13.12 is just faster in term of openCL performance the number of frames that can be copied is the same.

This wouldn't be an issue anymore with SM5.0 either. ^^

You may already guessed it, but I'm extremely sad that I can't use NNEDI3 anymore, since I watch videos on my gaming system which profits by new drivers.
I'm really missing madshi's deband filter in MPDN...

[XRyche]

Originally Posted by XRyche

I'm having a similar problem as oddball with Windows 10 Pro. Only real difference is that i have an MSI AMD R7 265 OC using Catalyst 15.7.1 , Driver version 15.20.1062.1002(The latest driver specifically for Windows 10 directly from the AMD website not from Windows update.) and I'm getting a black screen, audio is fine. I tried switching to EVR custom with the same MPC-HC and the video shows perfectly fine. So I'm pretty sure it's madVR and not MPC-HC or the built-in LAV filters, for me anyway.

Here's an update: I disabled any Nnedi3, whether image doubling or chroma scaling, and use super-xbr instead. Video was just fine. I was using Nnedi3 for image doubling upto 720p and was using Nnedi3 for chroma upsampling with 1080p before going to Windows 10.

[aufkrawall]

NNEDI3 doesn't work for you anymore on Windows 10?

[XRyche]

No sir/mama. I either get a brownish image or no image at all. Also it takes about 2 to 5 seconds for the image to initialize in windowed mode, even without Nnedi3. I'm not using delay playback either.

Update: I used Nnedi3 32 neurons luma and chroma doubling and if I wait about 20 to 30 seconds I get a brownish tinted image. When I try to take a .jpg screenshot with MPC-HC's F5 the screenshot appears normal. I guess I wasn't waiting long enough. But 20 to 30 seconds seems like an inordinately long time, doesn't it?

Further update: It seems the long wait time happens with super-xbr as well. The image is okay but its a long wait for the screen to show an image. I actually drop over 500 frames before I get an image on screen. Although the wait time for an image is almost instantaneous with EVR Custom.

Edit: The excessive wait times were all in FS or FSE.

[aufkrawall]

That sounds like a driver bug. As usually, OpenCL seems to be more broken than the rest.

[XRyche]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

That sounds like a driver bug. As usually, OpenCL seems to be more broken than the rest.

I'm going to try and do a complete clean install of the driver and see if that helps.

[BloodySword]

For me, madVR works just fine in MPC-BE on Windows 10, upgraded in-place from Windows 8.1 Pro 54. Well, partially. As soon as I switch to full screen, the player starts to react slowly. When I resize the window of the player, it is really really slow and stuttery. I updated madVR to the latest version 0.88.21 and still no luck, but the video is played back smooth now and there is no video stutter anymore, but the UI of the player is still acting very very slow... Also moving random windows of random applications around is stuttery and has micro glitches...

I may try the exclusive full screen mode instead and see if that makes any difference.

Edit: Exclusive mode does not make ANY difference.

Edit2: As long as I don't go into fullscreen mode, everything is like it was on Windows 8.1 Pro 64. After closing MPC-BE when I was in fullscreen mode, it goes back to normal.

Edit3: The same phenomena CAN occur when opening another video while MPC-BE is still open.

Edit4: It's ShadowPlay! When active, it screws up madVR! When I disable it, then it's not a problem anymore. Everything is then solved... But it would be nice if this problem would be investigated and fixed if possible and if it is a problem on madVR side.

Edit5: Oddly enough: Problem is gone. When I activate ShadowPlay again, the problems does not occur anymore. Seems that there was something hanging from the upgrade procedure to Windows 10.

Edit6: Sorry it came back. Disabling ShadowPlay solved the problem again.

Machine:
ASUS X99-E WS
GeForce GTX Titan X 12 GByte with NEC MultiSync EA244WMi over DisplayPort
32 GByte Kingston ValueRAM reg ECC DDR-2133 (Micron Chips)
Intel Xeon E5-2637v3
Intel 750 Series PCIe NVMe SSD 400 GByte
Hitachi DeskStar 4TB 7200 RPM HDD
Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit
MPC-BE x64 1.4.5 beta (build 501) with madVR 0.88.21 x64 renderer.

[XRyche]

Originally Posted by XRyche

I'm going to try and do a complete clean install of the driver and see if that helps.

No, a clean install using Display Driver Uninstaller (in Safe Mode) didn't change a thing.

[a11599]

Originally Posted by madshi

Nobody I know of uses D3D11 DXVA.

Kodi was upgraded for full-DX11 decoding and rendering just recently.

[XRyche]

Originally Posted by XRyche

No sir/mama. I either get a brownish image or no image at all. Also it takes about 2 to 5 seconds for the image to initialize in windowed mode, even without Nnedi3. I'm not using delay playback either.

Update: I used Nnedi3 32 neurons luma and chroma doubling and if I wait about 20 to 30 seconds I get a brownish tinted image. When I try to take a .jpg screenshot with MPC-HC's F5 the screenshot appears normal. I guess I wasn't waiting long enough. But 20 to 30 seconds seems like an inordinately long time, doesn't it?

Further update: It seems the long wait time happens with super-xbr as well. The image is okay but its a long wait for the screen to show an image. I actually drop over 500 frames before I get an image on screen. Although the wait time for an image is almost instantaneous with EVR Custom.

Edit: The excessive wait times were all in FS or FSE.

I also notice when playing 1080p (my display is 1080p) there is no wait times at all. This is going from Windowed player to FS and/or FSE. So I guess the excessive wait times are only when upscaling.