eac3to - audio conversion tool

[Wilbert]

@xkodi and others,

I'm using this version:

3) CinemasterAudio.dll v4.3.0.169, SonicHDDemuxer.dll v4.3.0.89

When using a 5.1_96kHz_24bit MLP stream (i'm sure it's 96kHz by looking at the MLP header), the stream is "converted" to (passed through as ?) 88.2kHz:



MLP header info:



Do you also have this problem? (When playing the graph the audio seems fine, so it's not mangled up ...) When loading the graph in AviSynth with directshowsource.dll the samplerate is also reported as 88.2kHz.

[ACrowley]

Originally Posted by xkodi

i don't have experience with DD+, so someone else should tell.

SonicCinemasterAudioDecoder applies DRC on EAC3 Decoding.
NeroAudioDecoder2 not
So its recommend to use only Nero Decoder to decode EAC3

Which is the default decoder on the eac3to command-line for DD+, Sonic or Nero?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Wilbert

When using a 5.1_96kHz_24bit MLP stream (i'm sure it's 96kHz by looking at the MLP header), the stream is "converted" to (passed through as ?) 88.2kHz

That's a bit strange, but it's not completely without sense, as 48khz and 44.1khz are the usual frequences and 88.2khz happens to be exacty 2 * 44.1khz. Personally, I don't have any MLP files with 96khz, so I can't reproduce the problem. My only MLP sources are movie tracks and they seem to be 48khz only at this point in time.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by honai

Which is the default decoder on the eac3to command-line for DD+, Sonic or Nero?

Sonic is currently the default decoder. You can force nero with a switch (see first post of this thread).

[xkodi]

Originally Posted by madshi

That's a bit strange, but it's not completely without sense, as 48khz and 44.1khz are the usual frequences and 88.2khz happens to be exacty 2 * 44.1khz. Personally, I don't have any MLP files with 96khz, so I can't reproduce the problem. My only MLP sources are movie tracks and they seem to be 48khz only at this point in time.

i will test that in a few hours and post back the results ...

[hristoff2]

Nero filters seem to apply DRC though...need to compare Sonic Decoder and Nero output first but I'm kind of disappointed after comparing DVD and Nero output. (dvd center wav vs. nero center wav)

[arty]

thank you xkodi, ACrowley, hristoff2!

this means we should NOT convert/playback DD+ or TrueHD with any codec because of the DRC bad news ... really bad.

even if we'll have a hdmi audio output we can not enjoy the HD discs with our PC the whole industy s*cks we are forced to use expensive set-top-hddvd/bd/players 'coz maybe intervideo/cybelink decoders also produce bad output we just don't know ...

An old dvd will sound better with its low bitrate ac3 track than a DRC'ed TrueHD track

[hristoff2]

Actually my version current version of Nero (and it's filters) could be corrupt. (7.9.6.0)

Trying 7.8.5.0 now...latest test I did (30mins before) I encountered that Sonic @ "quiet environment" was even more dynamic than the output of my Nero 7.9.6.0 and it's filters.
Nero's DRC can be turned off in Nero Showtime though...but until now I thought this would be directed to TrueHD decoding only...I wonder if anyone actually made tests like this:

Sonic vs. Nero
Nero vs. DVD
Sonic vs. DVD



I could provide all this stuff (the ac3 files) and the eac3 file with the correct timecodes if someone can explain how to cut an eac3 file.

I encountered that Sonic @ "quiet environment" was even more dynamic

Do you mean it was "more dynamic" or "more compressed"? (compression as in dynamic range compression) EDIT: Never mind, just took a look at the screenshot and saw what you mean.

@arty, hristoff2

Thanks for your investigation. I've made a post in the other forum summarizing the situation.

[madshi]

Wow, that looks really bad. It's about time we get a useful ffmpeg E-AC3 decoder. Hopefully Google Summer of Code will help!

[ACrowley]

Mh.... i thought too Nero will not apply DRC on DD+ ?
But Sonic does surely

Sonic Decoder Output sounds always louder...on AC3 too compared to AC3 Filter

Mhh i dont think we can 100% compare a DVD AC3 with EAC3 .Shouldnt EAC3 sound mor dynamic so the Waveform is different...
But Sonic shows no differenc between quite and normal..it was reported in few Threads

But no doubt....the comaprisons Screens show Nero is more Flat

However, encoded AC3 from DD+ sounds good imho. Also i usually mux the untouched EAC3 into my reencodes, so....

This is a sample from EAC3 ( Serenity HDDVD 1536kbps)
Both Center waves are loaded into Audacity
1st in Nero 2nd Sonic

[hristoff2]

Originally Posted by madshi

Wow, that looks really bad. It's about time we get a useful ffmpeg E-AC3 decoder. Hopefully Google Summer of Code will help!

It gets worse o_O
...
Just saw it and thought it's relatively comparable...take a look at this huge shit:



...so we've got 2x shit, but nero is even shittier because it's 1/2 loud. (compare overall volume from Nero to DVD and Sonic to DVD...Sonic has at least the correct "overall" volume)

As long as the range remains the same as in the original it's no big deal, you just turn up the volume knob. From the screenshot it looks as if Nero's output is really just quieter but not less dynamic than Sonic's.

[hristoff2]

Originally Posted by honai

As long as the range remains the same as in the original it's no big deal, you just turn up the volume knob. From the screenshot it looks as if Nero's output is really just quieter but not less dynamic than Sonic's.

Sure, but that means it's 1:0 for Sonic because it has one issue less than Nero.

[ACrowley]

Originally Posted by hristoff2

Sure, but that means it's 1:0 for Sonic because it has one issue less than Nero.

yeah..but what is the Reference ? As i say i dont know i f we can compare EAC3 and AC3 so easy..dont think so

However..most reencodes from EAC sound better as DVD AC3

most reencodes from EAC sound better as DVD AC3

... in your own humble opinion.

Maybe it's time for another double-blind listening test: DRCed EAC3->AC3 vs AC3 from DVD.

[ACrowley]

Originally Posted by honai

... in your own humble opinion.

Maybe it's time for another double-blind listening test: DRCed EAC3->AC3 vs AC3 from DVD.

Hey Kollega..."humble opinion" ? Cool down!
Sometimes a reencode from a 1536Kbps EAC3 sounds better as a 384Kbps 5.1 from DVD

Sorry if it came across as offensive, it wasn't meant to be. I was just trying to point out that the general claim "most reencodes from EAC sound better as DVD AC3" shouldn't be made without more empirical data.

[ACrowley]

Originally Posted by honai

Sorry if it came across as offensive, it wasn't meant to be. I was just trying to point out that the general claim "most reencodes from EAC sound better as DVD AC3" shouldn't be made without more empirical data.

No Problem....
Ofcourse you can say it Generally..
But for example a reencode from 1.5Mbps EAC3 to 640Kbps AC3 or to 768kbps 24Bit WMA 5.1 (when i encode WVC1) sounds better ,compared with a standard 384kbps DVD AC3..not always, but often.
Thats what i mean

And about the AC3-EAC3 Comparison .. How was the Wave decoded from AC3 ?
I mean there can be a huge difference between the Methods how the wave was decoded from AC3
Example :
Source is AC3 (untouched) 448kbps.
Decoded with :ffdshow raw dump(no DRC)/ SteinbergNuendo(no DRC)/ Tranzcode 0.4(no DRC)/ Besweet(no DRC in Command)

Example :




You can see there the Waveform is different. All without DRC.
I would say Steinberg Nuendos AC3 Decoder is Refernce because its a off. Pro. Dolby Decoder/Encoder ( same Result with Digigram,Softencode Decoder)