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Old 5th November 2018, 05:14   #53581  |  Link
ryrynz
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I have a GTX 960 and you'd be wasting your money.
Just as you saw the value in purchasing a ~$2000 USD TV many of us that actually have better graphics cards than the 960 see the value in using them.

When you consider what some hardware does in terms of upscaling and postprocessing in years gone by and even today and how much people can spend on these products to get that, $800USD is a small price to pay to unlock some of, if not the best upscaling and post processing options available in real time "on the market". To have the benefit to render 3D at the highest possible details as well at high frame rates? A bargain really, and a far cry from a "waste of money".

For the record I've used extensively with madVR a 750Ti 2GB, 960 2GB, 1060 6GB and a 1080 8GB. and I wouldn't trade my NGU doubling, NGU chroma and SSIM 2D downscaling on general content for anything.
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Old 5th November 2018, 07:33   #53582  |  Link
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what?

your card can do that (well 12 bit and 8 bit only cause nvidia is special.) so check your cable. RGB at 23 hz should be an option no matter what.


you create a normal DCI P3 3D LUT with a gamma of 2.2
Can someone with a gtx 960 and windows 10 show me where I can set 10 bit 4:4:4 I have no option in windows or in driver to set this up. There is no way overall refresh rates in native 4k at my pc. Also a driver version working with 10 bit will be nice to know.

Dci-p3 and bt2020 to calibrate and measure with PC in hdr mode is impossible. Due to tone mapping and drift of TV. Maybe different to try it in sdr mode with maximum gamut and maximum light without hdr meta data. I will give it a try.

Many thanks for all the interesting and good input.
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Old 5th November 2018, 07:45   #53583  |  Link
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Amen! I too have a GTX 1080 card, and it is not overkill for MadVr use at all! In fact I will be buying a faster card next year (7nm).
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Old 5th November 2018, 08:10   #53584  |  Link
HDR
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Well to be fair he didn't say it was. But yeah coming from a 1060 and a 1080 I can tell you the extra headroom the 1080 offers comes in very helpful for displaying downscaled 4k hdr on an HD screen. With an actual 4k screen though the demands are lower but a 960 just doesn't really cut it and especially if you want the best hdr experience from the soon to be released version. It doesn't feel right to be using anything other than NGU and SSIM AFAIC but to each their own, I would never use lanczos now except on the lowliest of machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz
Just as you saw the value in purchasing a ~$2000 USD TV many of us that actually have better graphics cards than the 960 see the value in using them.

When you consider what some hardware does in terms of upscaling and postprocessing in years gone by and even today and how much people can spend on these products to get that, $800USD is a small price to pay to unlock some of, if not the best upscaling and post processing options available in real time "on the market". To have the benefit to render 3D at the highest possible details as well at high frame rates? A bargain really, and a far cry from a "waste of money".

For the record I've used extensively with madVR a 750Ti 2GB, 960 2GB, 1060 6GB and a 1080 8GB. and I wouldn't trade my NGU doubling, NGU chroma and SSIM 2D downscaling on general content for anything.
It does cut it though. I just checked and I can do NGU Sharp Medium for chroma, although just barely at 40ms. NGU Low is easier.

There's no downscaling on a 4k screen so no need for SSIM.

If you guys want to suggest to the guy he needs to upgrade to a $600 card to run madVR in 4k at good settings I'm going to disagree, having had this setup for several years.

I wouldn't recommend buying a 960 now, but you absolutely do not need to upgrade to something better at this point, and I think anyone who does thinking there is going to be some magical improvement is going to be disappointed.

It will give you more headroom, that's about it.
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Old 5th November 2018, 08:29   #53585  |  Link
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It does cut it though. I just checked and I can do NGU Sharp Medium for chroma, although just barely at 40ms. NGU Low is easier.
For you, for me it wouldn't. Just barely? No thanks.

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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
There's no downscaling on a 4k screen so no need for SSIM.
I'm well aware, however I do downscale.

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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
If you guys want to suggest to the guy he needs to upgrade to a $600 card to run madVR in 4k at good settings I'm going to disagree, having had this setup for several years.
A 1060 6GB can be had for $250 USD and offers considerable performance improvement unlocking higher quality settings and without the "just barely" GPU loading and fan noise that accompanies it.

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I wouldn't recommend buying a 960 now, but you absolutely do not need to upgrade to something better at this point, and I think anyone who does thinking there is going to be some magical improvement is going to be disappointed.
What is it? You can't recommend it or it's perfectly suitable?
Having jumped from a 960 myself to a 1060 I can tell you as far as upgrades go it was pretty magical. You're using medium quality settings and only just scraping by on 24fps content which given how close you are to the frame time will likely lead to frame drops.
Suitable for you perhaps, plenty of users of 1060's and above would disagree with you there, we've all run lower tier cards in the past.

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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
It will give you more headroom, that's about it.
We don't buy beyond low tier cards to just "gain headroom"
Like huhn said, you can't do 60fps at those settings and you won't get the highest quality HDR processing either. It suits your viewing habits only. Not good advice, sorry.
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Old 5th November 2018, 08:33   #53586  |  Link
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NGU Sharp Very High is worth buying a $600+ dollar GPU for in my mind, but not a $1000+ one though (like the current price for 2080Ti).
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Old 5th November 2018, 09:15   #53587  |  Link
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ryrynz has to be trolling at this point.

The guy has a 4k OLED and you're talking about 1080p downscaling - irrelevant.

Quote:
Like huhn said, you can't do 60fps at those settings and you won't get the highest quality HDR processing either. It suits your viewing habits only. Not good advice, sorry.
You can get the highest quality HDR processing as I've already stated.

There are no tv shows or movies shot at greater than 25 fps. Only sports, soap operas, and talk shows which are generally not available in HDR.

Not good advice, sorry.

All of this is funny coming from someone using a 1080p screen.

If you actually cared about quality you'd have a 4k OLED by now. But you don't, so you like to argue on the internet to justify your purchases.
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Old 5th November 2018, 09:37   #53588  |  Link
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All of this is funny coming from someone using a 1080p screen.
Well I have a 75" Samsung Q9FN. I have a lot of 720p and 1080p content that I upscale to 4K, and I want the best PQ possible. I also want to keep the render stats below 30ms to avoid frame drops. If you let the render stats to go just below ~40ms, then you can get frame drops because of the max stats that sometimes jump higher. I prefer to have headroom.
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Old 5th November 2018, 09:48   #53589  |  Link
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1080p->2160p NGU Sharp High gets 19ms on a 960.

Quote:
NGU Sharp Very High is worth buying a $600+ dollar GPU for in my mind, but not a $1000+ one though (like the current price for 2080Ti).
Sorry, but this is placebo. Even madshi agrees.
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Old 5th November 2018, 10:08   #53590  |  Link
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ryrynz has to be trolling at this point.
Think I'll ignore you from now on, it's relevant to me. I'm not "talking about it"

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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
The guy has a 4k OLED and you're talking about 1080p downscaling - irrelevant.
Personally I feel your opinion on what constitutes as "good enough" is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
You can get the highest quality HDR processing as I've already stated.
Tried the test build?

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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
There are no tv shows or movies shot at greater than 25 fps. Only sports, soap operas, and talk shows which are generally not available in HDR.
And yet you're still maxing your low tier card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDR View Post
All of this is funny coming from someone using a 1080p screen.
With a motion resolution that blows your OLED out of the water I might add.

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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
Sorry, but this is placebo. Even madshi agrees.
If it had zero benefit he wouldn't have added it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDR View Post
If you actually cared about quality you'd have a 4k OLED by now. But you don't, so you like to argue on the internet to justify your purchases.
And you were talking about irrelevancy.. You should really research your display technologies before making such wild remarks. I have nothing more to say to you.

Last edited by ryrynz; 5th November 2018 at 10:11.
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Old 6th November 2018, 14:50   #53591  |  Link
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@Ampallang
https://abload.de/img/outputformatu8ej2.png

@HDR
Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk

the problem is you can't easily cheap out on HDR settings like other settings.

and because you are so into a 960 2GB can you go make a screen with a file that has subtitles that use madVR subtitle API and up scale it to UHD with NGU high?
and because of this comment:
Quote:
If you actually cared about quality you'd have a 4k OLED by now. But you don't, so you like to argue on the internet to justify your purchases.
don't forget the 3D LUT there is no way someone caring about image quality doesn't have/use that too.

this is "doable" with a 960 but good luck.

and about the topic what people need and what not you can kill every card with upscale refinement or super sampling. does this mean i agree with that no but i'm not going to say you don't need that only that i disagree with that.

if you think someone is wasting his money on a more powerful card ask him what he wants todo with that don't tell him you are wasting your money.
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Old 6th November 2018, 15:12   #53592  |  Link
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Originally Posted by HDR View Post
1080p->2160p NGU Sharp High gets 19ms on a 960.


Sorry, but this is placebo. Even madshi agrees.
very high wasn't placebo, to me. So I don't agree. The picture is pretty sharp, as sharp as you'd ever want it.

Last edited by Warner306; 6th November 2018 at 15:14.
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Old 6th November 2018, 15:34   #53593  |  Link
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@huhn many Thanks same here but when I check the signal and compare it with the oppo Grey and color ramps looks very different also the input signal tells different on a gtx 960.

@hdr could you share me per on here directly maybe some settings and profiles I now use the recommendation of Warner and Improve the settings to my machine and content. But still have the feeling to be fare away from the edge of what can be possible.

Will run some lut today and will analyze files for dynamic hdr. Will be interesting if it will be working in 4gb 960. Spottet 1070ti prices drops. So maybe end of the year I will buy one or vega. So far lucky with the 960 try to get more experience on the hdr tonemapping via madvr and without TV. Hopefully tomorrow evening I can compare.
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Old 6th November 2018, 15:51   #53594  |  Link
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@HDR
Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk

the problem is you can't easily cheap out on HDR settings like other settings.
I just bought this movie and tried it last night for the first time on my 1060 6gb. I CAN NOT get it to play properly with HDR tone mapping enabled. I can get it to play with passthrough, but, even then I have to compromise on my normal settings. Anyone saying that it's a waste to buy more powerful cards....I can tell you that's a very personal decision and not worth arguing about. I quite frankly wish I had a 1070 or 1080 right now because I will not be able to reliably do 60FPS 4K content on my 1060....not at the settings I want to use, anyway.
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Old 6th November 2018, 15:53   #53595  |  Link
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i don't know what an oppo grey has to do with that and please be more precise.
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Old 6th November 2018, 16:59   #53596  |  Link
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Greyscale and color ramps on oppo looks different than with gtx 960. On oppo it is much smoother as I can see on other bigger cards than gtx 960. So I guess the gtx 960 is limited to this. But the 960 makes a great job so far but I didn't tried the tonemapping just sdr lut and upscaling.
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Old 6th November 2018, 17:07   #53597  |  Link
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what have bigger cards to do with this and how do you even do a fair test for this?
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Old 6th November 2018, 19:55   #53598  |  Link
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Why is NGU better regarded than Jinc when there's the added addition of "other artifacts"?
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Old 6th November 2018, 20:03   #53599  |  Link
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Just a ramble here fwiw.

I've been using an EVGA full sized dual fan GTX 960 4GB card for years. I feed it to a 4k display. I don't care about downscaling so I set to the lowest Bicubic60. I've found 4k HDR titles don't require any heavy duty processing to make them come to life however I use AA medium which is more than enough chroma imo. I've used higher chroma that taxes the system and I compare. I don't see a difference tbh. I assume by pixel peeping there is a difference but my eyes simply don't see it when just watching the movie. I have no anime interests fwiw. I could use higher but with my old CPU, I don't want to hear the fan spin faster because it's tied into the processing too and I can't justify taxing the CPU for no gain in what I see. I guess it saves the GPU load too and why I've never had a problem with it. Lowering madVR settings eases CPU processing for me. I don't need to trade off any quality to increase performance.

I only use highest quality 1:1 iso rips for just about everything in my library. SDR, HDR, 3D, etc. Low resolutions to 2160p benefit using madVR to give em' a kick in the pants and the improvement is noticeable. This isn't to say I don't use some junk rips also. Junk rips absolutely require madVR or they look like the junk that they are. Period. Imo, this is the only thing that makes OLED displays shine. They are great at making junk sources look decent. But madVR does equally as good a job if not better. madVR doesn't apply for broadcast TV or anything else that can't be processed outside the displays own logic though. madVR can't cure them so the display must... or stay away from this junk and pray media isn't killed off and replaced with streams. TV broadcast, Hulu, Netflix, etc. benefit because they are no where near the actual quality of the original source we use madVR for unless bandwidth increases magically by leaps and bounds someday. Jeesh, an HDMI cable over 6' already introduces problems with actual high bitrate content at 4k. Imagine the 8k hurdles on the horizon. I've no idea yet but then and only then do I feel I might need to upgrade this GTX 960 because so far... so good.
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Old 6th November 2018, 20:21   #53600  |  Link
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@brazen: MadVR can apply to broadcast TV if you use a tuner card in a PC instead of TV's tuners.
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