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Old 23rd January 2016, 10:56   #35581  |  Link
madshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmone View Post
Spoke to soon on the 2nd Issue - here is a log: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20-%20log3.zip that should show playback in D3D9 no D3D11 (3D) mode with some seeks where post seek you see a bit of SBS then it goes into a std 2D image.

I think this is also related to my observation of "If move or right click the mouse to go into madVR settings and more often I get a visual effect like when leaving "Exclusive" mode" is actually it falling out of 3D to 2D
Ok, found one more potential issue. Please retest with the next build, whenever it occurs.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 10:57   #35582  |  Link
hubblec4
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Can you please double check v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue introduced with v0.90.x? That's quite important.
Ok, I will test it then.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
That 99,9% is that with 0.88.21 or 0.90.x? If it's with 0.88.21 and 0.90.x is clearly worse for you, then please try 0.89.19 as a test to see whether the new issue was introduced between 0.88.21 and 0.89.19, or between 0.89.19 and 0.90.0.
The 99,9% is with 0.88.21. In very very rare case the video is stuttering and only for a half second.
I will try 0.89.19 (Nevcairiel said you had change a lot of DVD playback in 0.89x thats why I try 0.88x)
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Old 23rd January 2016, 11:49   #35583  |  Link
a8213711
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How come for some files I see in ctrl+j 'DXVA' in chroma upscale instead of the chosen Bilinear?
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Old 23rd January 2016, 12:24   #35584  |  Link
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do you use DXVA image upscaling?
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Old 23rd January 2016, 12:43   #35585  |  Link
leeperry
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Maybe when using Reconstruction, you can turn off chroma SuperRes instead to avoid the EE?
Oh no, I cannot live without SR anymore as I find motion blur very distracting and I now become a RS believer but I can't use both in combination with NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling because 1) RS is very detailed and unforgiving 2) SR adds chroma EE 3) NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling ring, especially the latter so the ringing+EE combo give a cartoon look to every moving object.

SR+RS is pretty much all dandy without chroma doubling on HD or with NEDI chroma doubling on SD as the latter doesn't appear to ring nearly as much as sxbr for instance. Sorry to ask again, but would it be technically possible to allow luma doubling only for NEDI/sxbr? I'm not in the market for chroma ringing, especially when it gets the merciless RS+SR treatment

BTW it's quite fun to play videos at half-speed in combo with FRC
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Old 23rd January 2016, 13:12   #35586  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
When you test this, can you please compare image quality to PowerDVD to see if madVR is better/same/worse? Also one thing that I would find very interesting: When PowerDVD does 3D playback, does your display know that it's doing 3D?
Image quality is the same, i don't see diference. About my TV - it do not show any information about 3D. I just start playback, take 3D glass and enjoin
And what cool - that i can see 3D only in window(with TMT/madVR). PoweDVD do not show 3D in window.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 13:33   #35587  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by a8213711 View Post
How come for some files I see in ctrl+j 'DXVA' in chroma upscale instead of the chosen Bilinear?
When using DXVA decoding or deinterlacing, madVR uses DXVA chroma upscaling, unless you change the "trade quality for performance" settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Oh no, I cannot live without SR anymore as I find motion blur very distracting and I now become a RS believer but I can't use both in combination with NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling because 1) RS is very detailed and unforgiving 2) SR adds chroma EE 3) NNEDI3/sxbr chroma doubling ring, especially the latter so the ringing+EE combo give a cartoon look to every moving object.
I think motion blur is more of a luma thing, and less chroma. I didn't mean to suggest to turn luma SuperRes off, just chroma SuperRes. Which shouldn't affect motion blur much, I think.

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Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
Sorry to ask again, but would it be technically possible to allow luma doubling only for NEDI/sxbr?
Technically possible: Yes. Coming any time soon: No, sorry. You're the only one who's asked for that yet, and it would complicate the rendering pipeline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleksoid1978 View Post
Image quality is the same, i don't see diference. About my TV - it do not show any information about 3D. I just start playback, take 3D glass and enjoin
And what cool - that i can see 3D only in window(with TMT/madVR). PoweDVD do not show 3D in window.
Ok, good to hear!

One question: If you enable the Ctrl+J OSD, it is being rendered a little bit differently, depending on whether playback is paused or running (you can see that very clearly when looking at your TV without the 3D glasses on). Without the glasses on it's pretty clear which rendering method looks better (= when paused). But I'm wondering how it is with glasses on? I can't change the way the OSD looks like in paused state, but I could change it during playback. The same thing applies to all kinds of OSD, so it's not unimportant.

Last edited by madshi; 23rd January 2016 at 13:35.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 14:04   #35588  |  Link
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for line/column alternative is the picture for both image shifted by half a pixel? so the image has kind of the same position.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 14:09   #35589  |  Link
madshi
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It's shifted by 0.25 pixels each. 0.5 would be too much. You can see that in the Ctrl+J OSD. It looks nice and smooth in 3D playback. With 0.0 or 0.5 pixel shifting it would look quite ugly.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 14:13   #35590  |  Link
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i guess i did the math wrong but you have thinked about it so it is fine.

and i can't test it.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 15:07   #35591  |  Link
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Are you using Windows 10 build 11102? Also, can you please recheck with v0.89.19 to make sure it's really a new issue with v0.90.x? That's *very* important for me to know.
My Windows 10 says version 1511 (OS Build 10586.63)

I ran 0.89.19 for a long time with no issues, and the second I installed the first 0.90 build, without touching a single setting, I was getting the crashes.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 15:59   #35592  |  Link
madshi
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Ok, for all those of you who have new problems with v0.90.x which you didn't have in v0.89.19, here's a collection of test builds which are all intermediate steps between v0.89.19 and v0.90.x:

http://madshi.net/zzz - builds.rar

Some notes for optimal testing:

1) These are all 32bit builds, so please use a 32bit media player. You can switch builds simply by replacing the "madVR.ax" file. No need to uninstall/install madVR.
2) Please don't use any of the new features of v0.90.x. Make sure you have them all deactivated (e.g. all the 3D options/checkboxes, chroma "Reconstruction" etc).
3) Please make sure you have 3D deactivated in the OS settings (only applies if you have a 3D capable display).
4) Build 1 is the most likely to still show the problem. Build 10 is the least likely to still show the problem.
5) In order to save time, I'd suggest to start with build 5. If the problem occurs with build 5, it will also occur with builds 1-4. In that case try build 7 or 8. If the problem does not occur with build 5, then it will also not occur with builds 6-10. In that case try build 2 or 3. Etc... This way you should be able to find the exact build which introduced the problem pretty quickly.

Thanks!
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Old 23rd January 2016, 16:01   #35593  |  Link
madshi
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i guess i did the math wrong but you have thinked about it so it is fine.

and i can't test it.
Well, if you think about it, the image needs to be downscaled vertically by 2x first. After that a 0.25 pixel shift is the same as a 0.5 pixel shift before downscaling. So we're probably both right, depending on whether we talk about the pixel shift before or after downscaling. Anyway...
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Old 23rd January 2016, 16:15   #35594  |  Link
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Quote:
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JRiver MC21 is a bit of a different, albeit weird, story. When I play my 3D mkv's in MC21, they're 2D. Until, that is, I move the mouse and bring up the OSD for the player. Then it pops everything into 3D properly until the OSD hides, then back to 2D. WTF? LOL I won't have time to mess with it again til this weekend but I thought that was rather peculiar.
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Will look into that.
Thanks. If that gets fixed I'm golden on 3D. We gave a bit more information on this situation in the JRiver thread as you know. Basically if the disable for 2D, enable for 3D, and restore settings options on the 3D options page are set, we get this messed up behavior with the MC21 UI and it switching in and out of 3D. With those options unset, and only the option to enable 3D turned on, then it plays 3D just fine. I can't replicate this in MPC-HC, so, it's some weird issue that seems specific to MC21. If you need any testing, let me know.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 16:16   #35595  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
I wish there was something that just aced it all.
Imho that's still NNEDI3.
It's not perfect, but: it has the least ringing problems, it is a good compromise between sharp and soft and never fails in an obvious way (at least with chroma).
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Old 23rd January 2016, 16:42   #35596  |  Link
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Any ideas why present queue shows 2 as the max value, regardless of what is set in madVR's settings? Previously everything has worked fine. Sometimes the OSD shows the correct present queue number at first but quickly changes to 2 and is then stuck there.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 16:58   #35597  |  Link
madshi
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Any ideas why present queue shows 2 as the max value, regardless of what is set in madVR's settings? Previously everything has worked fine. Sometimes the OSD shows the correct present queue number at first but quickly changes to 2 and is then stuck there.
That's most probably the low latency mode, which the media player activates when drawing any kind of OSD that needs quick reaction times (madVR's Ctrl+J OSD does *not* activate it, though). It also gets activated when the madVR exclusive mode seekbar is visible.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 17:04   #35598  |  Link
hubblec4
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Hi madshi

here are the test pictures.
(MPC-HC with LAV 0.67.30 all 64bit)

I have reset the settings, install madvr0.89.19 and deactivate the exclusive mode -> video is stuttering.
Then I set all to Bilinear (disabled deinterlace funtion) -> video looks better but also stuttering.
Activate the Smooth motion -> 99,9% works (stuttering barely perceptible)

Then reset the settings again, installed madvr0.90.03, only set the devices (Pinoeer VSX-930-s -> Sony50W805C) and it looks very good.
Then I do the same procedure, no exclusive mode, Bilinear, then smooth motion activate. With smooth motion 99,9% works.

It seems to me that it works with the exclusive mode but without the video is stuttering.
I have yet not tested madvr0.88.21 with exclusive mode but I thinks it works.

mmh, but i don't like the exclusive mode(sorry).

Last edited by hubblec4; 23rd January 2016 at 17:07.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 17:36   #35599  |  Link
madshi
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Originally Posted by hubblec4 View Post
I have reset the settings, install madvr0.89.19 and deactivate the exclusive mode -> video is stuttering.
Then I set all to Bilinear (disabled deinterlace funtion) -> video looks better but also stuttering.
Activate the Smooth motion -> 99,9% works (stuttering barely perceptible)

Then reset the settings again, installed madvr0.90.03, only set the devices (Pinoeer VSX-930-s -> Sony50W805C) and it looks very good.
Then I do the same procedure, no exclusive mode, Bilinear, then smooth motion activate. With smooth motion 99,9% works.

It seems to me that it works with the exclusive mode but without the video is stuttering.
I have yet not tested madvr0.88.21 with exclusive mode but I thinks it works.

mmh, but i don't like the exclusive mode(sorry).
Hmmmm... I'm not sure about the conclusion of your test? It seems all of them can be smooth or stuttering, depending on settings? I'm not clear about which version is best now, because you seem to have tested different things with different versions.

Hmmmmm... Which OS is that? If you don't like exclusive mode, then try activating Aero, that might improve the situation. Or try Overlay in the madVR settings, if you have an NVidia or Intel GPU.
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Old 23rd January 2016, 17:59   #35600  |  Link
leeperry
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I think motion blur is more of a luma thing, and less chroma. I didn't mean to suggest to turn luma SuperRes off, just chroma SuperRes. Which shouldn't affect motion blur much, I think.
Both help IME, together they work on the same EE as far as I can see and it sure looks like a winning combo to my eyes but eventually the GIGO principle very much applies with RS and both SR's engaged all together

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Technically possible: Yes. Coming any time soon: No, sorry. You're the only one who's asked for that yet, and it would complicate the rendering pipeline.
Figured thanks, no sweat as it's hard to deny that NNEDI3 luma-only and NEDI are fully usable. I believe some ppl don't like sxbr due to its ringing, I can see some truth to that.
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