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Old 18th December 2018, 13:33   #1  |  Link
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HDR10+ General Discussion

As some of you may already know, the first UHD disc's encoded with HDR10+ have been released.

Currently only the newest Panasonic and Samsung devices support this version of 'dynamic' HDR, with the OPPO UDP-20x range of players and its clones to follow.

However, a guy over on the AVS forum has managed to back-up two of the new HDR10+ disc releases but has encountered an interesting issue that requires more analysis, help and feed-back from others.

Long story short, when the (HEVC/HDR10+).m2ts file is accessed/played outside its original UHD disc folder-set, not only is the HDR10+ meta-data/flag lost, the basic HDR10 information is lost too. Meaning no HDR at all. And, re-muxing the HEVC/HDR10+ elementary video stream into the MKV container does not work either

Can anybody here offer any help?
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Old 18th December 2018, 14:59   #2  |  Link
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Which titles use HDR10+? AVSforum didnt seem to say.
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Old 18th December 2018, 15:22   #3  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Which titles use HDR10+? AVSforum didnt seem to say.
Not many...

Here's a link to the current/proposed movies: List of UHDs that contain HDR10+


Cheers and thanks for your interest...
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Old 18th December 2018, 15:30   #4  |  Link
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Since HDR10+ wasn't in the original spec, how do they achieve backwards-compability? Or do all UltraHD Blu-Ray players receive firmware updates for it (not that many players exist)? Maybe the movie is stored twice, e.g. one SDR and one HDR10+ version and the remuxing software accesses the SDR one?
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Old 18th December 2018, 15:50   #5  |  Link
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Specs evolve over time. They may just have two discs in the package, like some 3D movies. The 3D disc never played on non-3D players, they just had to use the other one.
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Old 19th December 2018, 10:09   #6  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Since HDR10+ wasn't in the original spec, how do they achieve backwards-compability? Or do all UltraHD Blu-Ray players receive firmware updates for it (not that many players exist)? Maybe the movie is stored twice, e.g. one SDR and one HDR10+ version and the remuxing software accesses the SDR one?
HDR10 is mandatory and basically backwards compatible. In practice, the only thing a non-HDR10+ device will lose is the occasional retina-searing highlight, since the HDR10 average will be set to meet most scenes' needs.
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Old 19th December 2018, 19:51   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker_ger View Post
Since HDR10+ wasn't in the original spec, how do they achieve backwards-compability? Or do all UltraHD Blu-Ray players receive firmware updates for it (not that many players exist)? Maybe the movie is stored twice, e.g. one SDR and one HDR10+ version and the remuxing software accesses the SDR one?
HDR10+ is HDR with additional color volume metadata (in SEI messages) to enable the display device to better map the dynamic range of each scene to the display. The encoded video is exactly the same for HDR and HDR10+.
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Old 21st December 2018, 10:21   #8  |  Link
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I see. I wasn't sure what OP meant by "Meaning no HDR at all". Guess he meant the metadata was lost but the encoding is HDR (i.e. you see the washed out colors).

But if all the metadata is simply in SEI messages it would be unusual for muxers to drop them.
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Old 21st December 2018, 13:21   #9  |  Link
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I got my hands on one of those discs, and just playing the straight up m2ts file produces proper HDR10 playback. So if ripping to MKV screws that up, then the ripping tool removed something it was not meant to.
I'll peek at the HDR10+ metadata later.

The only odd thing is that the disc claims to be 60GB in size, but the main m2ts is just 22GB, I wonder if something is wrong with the decryption or reading of the disc.
But the movie seems to be all there regardless. Its only 46 minutes (A Beautiful Planet documentary), so maybe the 60GB is just a fluke in being the max size it could be.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 21st December 2018 at 13:25.
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Old 21st December 2018, 13:57   #10  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I got my hands on one of those discs, and just playing the straight up m2ts file produces proper HDR10 playback...
That's interesting. I'll report that back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
So if ripping to MKV screws that up, then the ripping tool removed something it was not meant to.
I'll peek at the HDR10+ metadata later.
Did you use MakeMKV to do the back-up to .mkv. If so, I wonder if the loss of the HDR10+ meta-data is due to limitations in their version of their Matroska muxer.

Perhaps, Mosu's Matroska muxer is able to do a better job. I have found this to be the case with regular Blu-ray and UHD disc back-ups!
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Old 21st December 2018, 17:01   #11  |  Link
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A MakeMKV MKV file of that disc also preserves the HDR10 charecteristics.
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Old 21st December 2018, 17:14   #12  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
A MakeMKV MKV file of that disc also preserves the HDR10 charecteristics.
Really... Does it trigger the HDR10 flag in your hardware player and/or supporting TV?
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Old 21st December 2018, 17:16   #13  |  Link
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I don't have such a thing. But my software PC player still reports full HDR just like normal. Hardware playback failure can have a million reasons.
But clearly enough data is preserved to indicate its at least HDR10.
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Old 21st December 2018, 17:23   #14  |  Link
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Quote:
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I don't have such a thing. But my software PC player still reports full HDR just like normal. Hardware playback failure can have a million reasons.
This is most confusing...

Which HDR10+ disc did you end up purchasing Nev, so I can buy the same one?

In the meantime... Are you able to post a short MKV and/or M2TS sample?
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Old 7th January 2019, 18:11   #15  |  Link
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I finally got around to looking at the metadata (well a couple days ago actually), and the .mkv rip from MakeMKV does also contain the HDR10+ SEI metadata. So its all there. If some player cannot play that in HDR10 or HDR10+, then its entirely up to the player.

PS:
I got the A Beautiful Planet documentary, as mentioned above already.
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Old 7th January 2019, 22:16   #16  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I finally got around to looking at the metadata (well a couple days ago actually), and the .mkv rip from MakeMKV does also contain the HDR10+ SEI metadata. So its all there. If some player cannot play that in HDR10 or HDR10+, then its entirely up to the player.

PS:
I got the A Beautiful Planet documentary, as mentioned above already.
Thanks for looking into this, I'll pass the information onto OPPO.

I recently purchased 'A Beautiful Planet' too (via Amazon UK). It's currently on its way from the US of A
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Old 7th January 2019, 22:22   #17  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I finally got around to looking at the metadata (well a couple days ago actually), and the .mkv rip from MakeMKV does also contain the HDR10+ SEI metadata. So its all there. If some player cannot play that in HDR10 or HDR10+, then its entirely up to the player.
Anything that doesn't change the video elementary stream should retain HDR10+ metadata.
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Old 8th January 2019, 16:12   #18  |  Link
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I wonder if MKV muxer that MakeMKV GUI uses is doing something weird?!
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Old 8th January 2019, 17:01   #19  |  Link
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Looks like we're getting a bit closer...

A new AVS forum member, going by the name avsforum2 has just posted the following: -
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsforum2
I have an MKV file and it must carry HDR10+ since when I play it directly on the internal TV player (Panasonic FZ800) it triggers HDR10+ on the TV, when I play the same file on Oppo (beta) it donīt see any HDR information and send out SDR BT.2020 to the TV.
Link: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57398770
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Old 12th January 2019, 11:05   #20  |  Link
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Anyone got a link to a HDR-10+ sample file?
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