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Old 10th April 2009, 13:41   #81  |  Link
Matching_Mole
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madVR is really interesting and if you succeed to improve its smoothiness at the level of HR or EVR CP customized by Beliyaal, it will be the best renderer on Windows.

Just a question, do you plan to handle the subtitles like doing VRM9 and EVR?

Thanks.
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Old 10th April 2009, 14:40   #82  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Well, I've retested and I get ugly chroma upsampling with ATI when using NV12, too. However, Beliyaal has sent me a screenshot of his ATI card which looks a lot nicer. We're not sure yet why he gets different results than I do. Might be due to different OS, driver version or graphics card...
Try with other renderers, in Vista if you use NV12 and EVR Custom, you get bad chroma upsampling. However if you use plain EVR instead you get good chroma upsampling. Weird.
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That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
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Old 10th April 2009, 16:47   #83  |  Link
Mike5
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XP SP3
Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB
Catalyst 9.1

I can't have madVR working. I tried MPC-HC (special version) and ZP6 with or without the last reclock and get audio but no video for several second, then both players freeze.

I checked YV12 in decoder output (both internal MPC-HC and ffdshow tried) and in Reclock.

Finally I tried Graphedit, changing the video renderer to madVR and get the same behaviour: audio, no video, after a few seconds Graphedit freezes.

Perhaps the video card is too old (it's my workplace PC and dates back to 2002).

Tonight at home I'll try on a recent PC.
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Old 10th April 2009, 17:21   #84  |  Link
Xorp
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I get some wackiness trying to play VC1 content:



None of those color issues with AVC, but playback is very choppy on higher bitrate stuff, get about 15fps. But CPU is at 100% (C2D @ 3.4ghz)

No issues with MPEG2 stuff it seems.

Graphics card is a 8800GTS 640MB, its the original G80 version so no DXVA or CUDA.

Also, madVR didn't work for me at all with v0.1, just got a black screen.

Last edited by Xorp; 10th April 2009 at 17:38.
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Old 10th April 2009, 17:47   #85  |  Link
Keiyakusha
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After installing version 0.2, in settings it still shows ver 0.1. Thats normal?
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Old 10th April 2009, 19:14   #86  |  Link
Mike5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike5 View Post
Tonight at home I'll try on a recent PC.
Tried on a E8500, ATI HD 4650 (my HTPC)

XP SP3 Catalyst 9.1
Now it works fine with HD content, quality appears excellent to me. As for smoothness, I need to watch a whole movie.

As for DVD on Hard Disk, if I open the .IFO file, MPC-HC hangs. No problem with single .VOB files.

Windows 7 7048 Catalyst 9.3
Perfect with HD content.

As for DVD on Hard Disk, if I open the .IFO file, I get the error: DVD: Macrovision Fail. No problem with single .VOB files.

So, probably the problems in the workplace PC were due to the old video card, but there is still a problem on DVD.

What's this Macrovision Fail that I have seen reported by others above,too ? It reminds me old analogic stuff.

P.S. Both in XP and Windows 7 madVR needs d3dx9_35.dll to be present in C:\Windows\System32. I downloaded it from the Internet.
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Old 10th April 2009, 20:28   #87  |  Link
Brazil2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorp View Post
I get some wackiness trying to play VC1 content:

I got the same but only when the MPC-HC internal VC-1 decoder is used. It's Ok with the Microsoft VC-1 decoder (wvc1dmod.dll).

However I have a 1920*1080 VC-1 video in a MKV container (demuxed from the M2TS with TsMuxer and muxed in a MKV with MKVToolNix) that doesn't want to be displayed with the correct aspect ratio with MadVR and only with MadVR. Aspect ratio is correct with other renderers (VMR and EVR).

Code:
Video
ID                               : 1
Format                           : VC-1
Format profile                   : AP@L3
Codec ID                         : WVC1
Codec ID/Hint                    : Microsoft
Duration                         : 1h 37mn
Bit rate                         : 26.8 Mbps
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16/9
Frame rate                       : 23.976 fps
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.539
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Old 10th April 2009, 22:49   #88  |  Link
Egh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matching_Mole View Post
madVR is really interesting and if you succeed to improve its smoothiness at the level of HR or EVR CP customized by Beliyaal, it will be the best renderer on Windows.
Oh, someone really started doing the right job! HR is the best, let's see if this renderer can match it

16bit per channel per design is the way to go!!!! I just love it!

As for Beliyaal's or even not customized EVRCP, I love your sarcasm. Just in case you didn't know, both Beliyaal's and SVN versions output junk instead of video on EVRCP on my system. If not Haali or now madVR I'd be stuck with VMR9 on a system with pulls Crysis in medium settings easily....

As for DXVA with modern systems it is not a priority for mainstream PCs, only for nettops and stuff, and even that realistically is a bit too early as first nettop with integrated GeForce 9400M has just been announced.

I will choose CPU&Quality over "Fast, unreliable and limited in functionality" DXVA anytime...

Besides, due to GPU usage on HR and on madVR, much of the quality improvement is achieved on GPU anyway.

I will probably start saving for true 10bit capable LCD panel
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Old 10th April 2009, 23:30   #89  |  Link
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Laptop with a Merom Core 2 Duo T5800 (800 Mhz FSB), 2GHz and Nvidia GeForce 9600M GT with 512MB DDR3 dedicated memory graphics.

Media files are played with ZoomPlayer. No ReClock or other similar filters. Using latest "official" notebook drivers from Nvidia's website, no "modded" ones (so no CUDA for video, either).

Good things:
- playback is good, colors seem to be appropriate, no tearing that I was aware of
- loading time is low enough, but it's true it causes a litle desync at the beginning of playback, with sound going on and video playing catch up. However, catching up happens very fast, even with 1080p files. In comparison, Haali's renderer, once it loses sync, it keeps on widening it as playback goes, and never catches it up (well, unless you pause the video and let the buffer fill in, then resuming playback and pausing it again, to allow the buffer to fill in some more, and so on untill you get to around 4 ms, after which Haali's renderer seems to be able to keep sync). madVr catches up sync very fast and keeps it, so this is a great improvement over Haali's behavior. This is most noticeably on laptops, where power management might keep the CPU running at a lower frequency when starting playback, until it figures out the load went sky high and it needs to increase the clock speed.
- subtitles work perfectly with VSFilter. The issues people are reporting are either related to filter management issues on their system, or MPC random bugs (if they're using MPC).
- CPU load is light, however the GPU load is not. I notice that when I look at the temperatures monitor: CPU temps stay low, but GPU ones rise.
- regarding playback smoothness, there are issues, but I don't know if they're ZoomPlayer related or madVR related. Let's explain:

I start a file in ZoomPlayer and playback seems smooth. I stop playback, without closing the player. I start another file, and now playback might be smooth, or it might be jerky (visible on long pans). No matter what I do, like opening another file (but still not having closed ZoomPlayer), I can't seem to get rid of the jerkiness. Now, I close ZoomPlayer. I open ZoomPlayer again and start playing the file I got jerkiness. However, this time playback is smooth...

I should say playback of one file after another in ZoomPlayer is always smooth with Haali's renderer, it doesn't randomly start to get jerky like with madVR.

Features requests:
- having the renderer remember the settings is a must. Each time playback starts, it forgets what the settings were.
- remembering the position of the settings panel on the screen, is also a good thing to have.

Questions:
- how does the filter know whjat .3dlut file to use. What if I have many .3dlut files in the folder where madvideorenderer.ax is, will it load one at random, or will it load only the out16.3dlut one ?

Issues:
- madVR accepts YUY2 input, however it can't handle it and shows a black screen. The proper behavior in this case would be to reject a connection with YUY2 input, not to accept it.
- sometimes, after changing the resizing algorithm in the settings panel, the renderer doesn't show a picture anymore, but only a black screen. This seems to happen randomly. Remember, I'm using ZoomPlayer, so it might be an issue between the two, as well.
- yes, switching from fullscreen to windowed is not very visually pleasing, but we can live with that.
- wrong AR on some anamorphic video mkv files, in conjunction with the "Derived" aspect ratio option in ZoomPlayer. Haali's renderer shows proper behavior.

This is related to the issue haruhiko mentioned: the renderer should accept a change of the aspect ratio during playback and adapt accordingly. Why ? Well, on anamorphic video files (like the one I'm mentioning), during intial graph connection and before playback starts, the advertised biWidth and biHeight in BITMAPINFOHEADER are those of the source size (like, let's say, 688x448), and only as soon as playback starts the desired display size gets entered into biWidth and biHeight (like 768, -448). madVR doesn't catch this change, and ends up displaying the image at an aspect ratio of 688/448 (=1.53571) instead of 768/448 (=1.776785).

One more note: dwPictAspectRatioX and dwPictAspectRatoY members in the VIDEOINFOHEADER2 structure are initialized to a value that almost reflects the correct display AR even before playback, but the value is in fact not very correct (it's rounded up). In the case above, they were dwPictAspectRatioX = 0x000031bf and dwPictAspectRatoY = 0x00001c00, which gives display AR = 1.776646. This might be considered a good enough approximation or not.


Great job with this renderer, by the way. Way to go, madshi !



Finally: login management on Doom9 Forum needs some improvement. Save goodness I had the inspiration to copy to clipboard all this text before pressing the submit button, or I would have lost everything when the forum suddenly decided I was no longer logged in. I learned this behavior from previous experiences, that's why I copied everything to clipboard before trying to submit. It happens if one doesn't enable the "Remember me" option at login.


Final edit: to all the people reporting issues with madVR: try using another player than MPC. You may not like to hear this, but you might be encountering bugs in MPC instead of bugs in madVR.

Last edited by KoD; 10th April 2009 at 23:55.
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Old 10th April 2009, 23:35   #90  |  Link
Snowknight26
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I get the same thing that Xorp does except with H.264 content as well. MPC Video Decoder (YUV2) -> ffdshow video decoder (YV12) -> madVR. (Edit: Nevermind, guess it's an MPC Video Decoder issue. Blocking that filter so that only ffdshow does the decoding shows the videlo correctly.)

Also, on a laptop of mine (GM45), MPC-HC freezes and maxes out a single core while its frozen. RAM usage keeps climbing but nothing else happens.

Also, when you go to fullscreen in MPC-HC, it takes up to half a second for the video's AR to adjust to the correct AR.

Last edited by Snowknight26; 10th April 2009 at 23:38.
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Old 11th April 2009, 00:00   #91  |  Link
Egh
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This renderer potentially is top#1 choice for video elite

However some issues already: massive CPU load (independent of the videocodec or original resolution), typically uses here in between 60% and 90% CPU, that is on 7900GTX (fastest 7xxx GForce) and E8500 stock freq (3.1GHzX2) Funny enough even when I pause the video it still uses around 50% so I sense a bug here as well

For the same content but with Haali renderer overall CPU usage is typically around 10-15% for 720p AVC content.

So, does it really support older than 8xxx series of GForce of GPUs? If so, why so much CPU%? In order to be really usable here needs to be probably around half of the current load and definitely as minimal as possible whilst paused.
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Old 11th April 2009, 00:06   #92  |  Link
Mark_A_W
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Interesting.

I'm not getting any unusual CPU load watching BD's converted to 1080p MKV.

But I am getting major tearing, which I don't get with EVR/VMR9/Haali/etc.

On an ATi 2600XT (which has been fine so far, I don't game).
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Old 11th April 2009, 00:25   #93  |  Link
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perhaps it might be optimized more for ATI card, as madshi has no nvidia card (provided that optimization has to be done into that direction and cannot be generally be done for all cards/manufactors by generally optimizing direct3d stuff or something similar). so it could make sense here to have another programmer with nvidia card trying to optimze nvidia playback then?
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Old 11th April 2009, 01:23   #94  |  Link
noee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
...
But I am getting major tearing, which I don't get with EVR/VMR9/Haali/etc.

On an ATi 2600XT (which has been fine so far, I don't game).
I have the same card and the same issues here, with SD material inside MKV (AVC) and 1080P material inside MKV (AVC).

I've tried turning all of the "quality" settings off and same tearing results. Perhaps this card just doesn't have the guts?
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Old 11th April 2009, 01:27   #95  |  Link
Mark_A_W
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Originally Posted by noee View Post
I have the same card and the same issues here, with SD material inside MKV (AVC) and 1080P material inside MKV (AVC).

I've tried turning all of the "quality" settings off and same tearing results. Perhaps this card just doesn't have the guts?

Maybe...but like I said, it's fine with every other renderer on Vista (but not EVR on XP....but that's a bad idea).

It's early days yet, let's see what Madshi can pull out of his hat
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Old 11th April 2009, 01:42   #96  |  Link
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I fixed my VSFilter issue - I had to block several filters: Arcsoft Video Decoder, Cyberlink PDVD8 h264 Decoder, CoreAVC (it has trouble with AR on some videos), etc. and chose FFDShow as the decoder for the target videos (x264). Now it can connect! Naturally, VSFilter is limited by the resolution output by ffdshow - if I leave the resolution untouched and let madVR do the scaling, the video looks quite good, but of course the subtitles are soft and/or jaggy!

I can't wait for the subpicture pin to be implemented in madVR!
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Old 11th April 2009, 02:53   #97  |  Link
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Dithering is the best indeed. Color from madVR still looks different (and looks wrong) for me, though. I still don't have time to learn about 3dlut file either. But now a lot of people already giving their feedback, I'll just sit back and wait, I think.

Edit: Now I'm spoiled by madVR dithering, could anyone suggest me the setting that give me the closest to what madVR have? I'm using Beliyaal's MPC-HC build with EVR CP right now. Sometimes I use Kovensky's mplayer build with software upscaling to my desktop resolution as well.

Last edited by Hypernova; 11th April 2009 at 08:37.
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Old 11th April 2009, 10:43   #98  |  Link
ice25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
Interesting.

I'm not getting any unusual CPU load watching BD's converted to 1080p MKV.

But I am getting major tearing, which I don't get with EVR/VMR9/Haali/etc.

On an ATi 2600XT (which has been fine so far, I don't game).
Yup quite a bit of tearing here as well, i'm on a 8800 GTS though.
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Old 11th April 2009, 11:34   #99  |  Link
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Any Media Portal users in there?
now I'm using Media Portal under Vista with Evr and Aero with an Asus Ati HD 3850 graphic card. I use Slysoft Reclock.
My monitor is a plasma Panasonic 37PV60 it hasn't 24p support only 50 and 60 HZ. so reclock speedup play to Pal mode. No meaningful problem.
the minor problems with this configuration are:

1) with Ati card the secondary monitor in extended desktop mode do not work very well. so when start Media Portal I switch the two monitor and plasma became the primary one.

2) with reclock the evr vsynch does'nt work. I have to use the embedded reclock vsynch correction to get the perfect smooth play (24p to Pal and Pal/25 fps either).
And only with Aero on because without Aero reclock and evr do not work fine. I got stuttering for vysnch problems.

Could be important a combined developer with Slysoft to obtain the ultimate renderer for the perfect and troubleless htpc (very optimistic )
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Old 11th April 2009, 12:38   #100  |  Link
yesgrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Egh View Post
This renderer potentially is top#1 choice for video elite
7900GTX (fastest 7xxx GForce)
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Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
On an ATi 2600XT
Quote:
Originally Posted by noee View Post
Perhaps this card just doesn't have the guts?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post
Maybe...but like I said, it's fine with every other renderer on Vista
So the "video elite" want's to run madVR in such old graphics cards?
Please remember that madVR needs lot of shader processing power, and the old cards have very few shader processing units... My GF 8600GT only has 16, and it barelly keeps up with it. So, if we really want to use madVR, we should start thinking in upgrading... of course madshi could be able to optimize the code, but in the end it will always be a question of shading power. You have it or not.
It would be great if people with more recent cards would test it and post the results, so we could be able to see if it's just our cards that cannot handle it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypernova View Post
Dithering is the best indeed. Color from madVR still looks different (and looks wrong) for me, though. I still don't have time to learn about 3dlut file either.
I can help you with the 3dlut files creation, but you have to be more specific with your problems... Which source, which other renderers are you comparing? video levels or PC levels?

madshi,
are you ok with using this thread for 3dlut discussions, or will you prefer that we discuss 3dlut stuff in another thread?
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