Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Capturing and Editing Video > New and alternative a/v containers

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 8th September 2011, 17:42   #5341  |  Link
glorp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
My current idea would be to offer a checkbox for the advanced mode, which then hides the "simple" mode config, and shows the advanced mode. That way there wouldn't be any confusion - i hope.

The first time advanced mode is activated, i would seed it with the generated commands from simple mode. (In the logic, simple mode would always be converted to an advanced string, so i don't have to implement two algorithms to select streams)
That sounds good too. I liked the idea of being able to "see" how the simple options would configure the reg ex since they very well might be all I need. It's just that there lots of 'simple' interacting options that make it a challenge to get the exact logic correct. Seeing it in a written form as a list of priorities is so much easier for me.

You know what you're doing.
glorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 17:44   #5342  |  Link
cyberbeing
Broadband Junkie
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The only downside is that MMX is not available in 64-bit builds (MS Compiler limitation).
If I have time, I'll try booting into Win7 x64 and see if things are any better or change at all.
cyberbeing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 17:45   #5343  |  Link
CruNcher
Registered User
 
CruNcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 4,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddball View Post
All I want is forced Eng subs on English audio and Full English subs on everything else. Simples
So some kind of language learning mode in my definition subtitles (closed captions) are first for hearing impaired people, and sure audio and subtitles should be in sync and changeable on demand
__________________
all my compares are riddles so please try to decipher them yourselves :)

It is about Time

Join the Revolution NOW before it is to Late !

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168004

Last edited by CruNcher; 8th September 2011 at 17:51.
CruNcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 18:16   #5344  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
4:2:0 hater
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Thats one of the oddities, though. I don't consider "default" to actually have that meaning. mkvmerge always flags one track as default, and if you don't remove that flag manually, you would always end up with a subtitle. Doesn't seem desirable to me, personally.

But the advanced mode will let you easily do that, if thats what you like. =)
Yep. However the same can be said when playing anything without flags, like a BD or DVD: one would expect subtitles to be disabled by default (before entering languages and such), instead we get subtitles, and the first track on top of that which is usually not the one you would like to see if you are not English anyway. Also people coming from Haali or MPC's internal will find strange that after switching to LAV subtitles become active with no apparent reason. I have no problem setting the option(s) or modifying the code, but they surely will.
__________________
Specs, GTX970 - PLS 1440p@96Hz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manao View Post
That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
STaRGaZeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 18:33   #5345  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
Yep. However the same can be said when playing anything without flags, like a BD or DVD: one would expect subtitles to be disabled by default (before entering languages and such), instead we get subtitles, and the first track on top of that which is usually not the one you would like to see if you are not English anyway. Also people coming from Haali or MPC's internal will find strange that after switching to LAV subtitles become active with no apparent reason. I have no problem setting the option(s) or modifying the code, but they surely will.
The new defaults will be more sane regarding subtitles enabling. I understand how people got confused by some of the behaviour right now.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 18:36   #5346  |  Link
Xaurus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 288
nevcairiel,

Not sure if it's very interesting but I ran a few tests with the 42 mbit/s Birds clip on my system (5 runs per decoder). http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1D4BX1U9
All output set as YV12.

LAV Video 0.35:
Avg: 187,6698 fps

ffdshow Video rev. 3972:
Avg: 184,0087 fps

CoreAVC 3.0:
Cuda avg: 47,3796 fps

LAV CUVID 0.12:
Avg: 47,2249 fps

CoreAVC 3.0:
No acc. avg: 40,4673 fps

CPU: Intel Core i7 980x @ 4015 MHz (6 threads, HT off)
GPU: Nvidia 570 GTX
__________________
SETUP: Win 10/MPC-HC/LAV/MadVR
HARDWARE: Fractal Design Node 804 | Xeon E3-1260L v5 | Supermicro X11SSZ-TLN4F | Samsung 2x8GB DDR4 ECC | Samsung 850 EVO 1TB | MSI GTX 1650 Super | EVGA G2 750
Xaurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 18:37   #5347  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
If I have time, I'll try booting into Win7 x64 and see if things are any better or change at all.
I build you a MMX P010 thingy.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.35-P010-mmx.zip

It *should* use the MMX version on any Athlon that has SSE2, but does not have SSE4a. Apparently the ffmpeg developers came up with that scheme to detect if a Athlon has slow SSE2.

Sadly there is no easy way for you or me to make sure its using the MMX version, but maybe you'll see a speed difference.
I sadly do not have a whole attic full of hardware to test one.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 8th September 2011 at 18:45.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 19:15   #5348  |  Link
MasterNobody
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 552
nevcairiel
Hi. Can you investigate why this sample test.mkv cause periodic flickering with LAV Video 0.35 + Haali Video Renderer (03/03/2011) and problems with seeking (also with Haali Video Renderer).
Also why LAV Video doesn't work with Overlay Mixer at all?
MasterNobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 19:22   #5349  |  Link
jmonier
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddball View Post
All I want is forced Eng subs on English audio and Full English subs on everything else. Simples
Unfortunately, there are exceptions for which this will not work. In some movies ("Gran Torino" is an example) the "forced" subtitles (English subtitles for another language within a predominately English film) are a separate shorter subtitle track rather than just a forced flag within a full length SDH English track. So manual selection will always be needed.
jmonier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 20:20   #5350  |  Link
clsid
*****
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterNobody View Post
nevcairiel
Hi. Can you investigate why this sample test.mkv cause periodic flickering with LAV Video 0.35 + Haali Video Renderer (03/03/2011) and problems with seeking (also with Haali Video Renderer).
Also why LAV Video doesn't work with Overlay Mixer at all?
Working fine here with Overlay Mixer (tested on win7).
__________________
MPC-HC 2.1.7.2
clsid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 20:29   #5351  |  Link
MasterNobody
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 552
oh. forgot to mention. XP SP3. And all this in MPC-HC
MasterNobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 20:59   #5352  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
4:2:0 hater
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
The new defaults will be more sane regarding subtitles enabling. I understand how people got confused by some of the behaviour right now.
After thinking around a bit, I think I got it backwards. I don't think Haali disables subs when there is no forced or default flag, I think that it doesn't enable them if they are missing. This is how I think Haali's stream selection is:

Code:
stream = none;

if (user_settings) {
    stream = findtrack(); // All logic goes here. Sky is the limit.
} else if (forced_flags) {
    stream = findfirstforcedtrack();
} else if (default_flag) {
    stream = finddefaulttrack();
}

return stream;
What do you think about it?
__________________
Specs, GTX970 - PLS 1440p@96Hz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manao View Post
That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
STaRGaZeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 21:09   #5353  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,344
I really havent used Haali much, but i guess what you're saying is that once you configure a language in haali, you will always get subs, no matter what (unless you use that advanced config with a "off" setting)? The only difference to LAV Splitter being the behaviour without configuration, i guess.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 21:14   #5354  |  Link
pankov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Posts: 661
Nev, guys,
now that you are on the subtitles subject can someone help me with the following problem (general as I see it):
Is there any way to have internal and external subtitles working together? By "working together" I mean that the "cycle" function (next/prev subtitle track) should be able to go through both internal (via the stream switching interface exposed by the splitter) and external subtitle files (via the stream switching interface exposed by subtitle renderer - either VobSub/FFDShow or MPC's internal one).
Is there a way that the media player can distinguish between the different tracks (audio/video/subs) exposed by the splitter and somehow combine only the subtitles ones with the ones from the subs renderer?

This is something that a lot of non English speaking people who use external subs in their language need when they try to learn the foreign language.
__________________
Z370M Pro4 | i3-8100 | 16GB RAM | 256GB SSD + 40TB NAS
NVIDIA GTX 1060 6GB (385.28) | LG OLED65B7V
Win 10 64bit 1803 + Zoom Player v14
pankov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 21:17   #5355  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,344
The external subtitles are not managed by the splitter, and the way external subs are managed is different in every player out there, so its really a player task, imho.

I know that someone wanted to try combining those two in the MPC-HC subtitle selector, because right now you have to switch in two different menus..
There is a kind-of standard how streams are grouped in IAMStreamSelect, so it should be possible to do it.
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 8th September 2011 at 21:20.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 21:32   #5356  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
4:2:0 hater
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I really havent used Haali much, but i guess what you're saying is that once you configure a language in haali, you will always get subs, no matter what (unless you use that advanced config with a "off" setting)? The only difference to LAV Splitter being the behaviour without configuration, i guess.
Not sure, as I don't use any of those features. However that goes into the user_settings if, and each splitter has its own options and stuff. As you say, the point I'm trying to make is that its default config is optimal IMHO. Can you find any flaws or corner cases in it?
__________________
Specs, GTX970 - PLS 1440p@96Hz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manao View Post
That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
STaRGaZeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 21:37   #5357  |  Link
nevcairiel
Registered Developer
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hamburg/Germany
Posts: 10,344
Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR View Post
As you say, the point I'm trying to make is that its default config is optimal IMHO. Can you find any flaws or corner cases in it?
Its a matter of taste, imho. Personally, i usually don't want subs. Forced subs are OK, but normal subs i rather never see, so selecting the default track is not perfect for me.

But then, a default setting will never be perfect, its really a matter of choice.

I can certainly configure it like that. When no languages are configured (and settings not touched in general), use forced/default, but nothing else.
I would tie that to the audio settings, though, so when the user configures audio languages, but no subtitle languages, then at least it trys to select a forced track that matches the audio language - if one is present. If no match is found, fallback to the old logic and try any forced track, and then the default track.

I really don't have much MKVs with subtitles. How is the default flag really used? Do people typically keep it on the one stream that mkvmerge put it on, just because? Or does it have a meaningful use?
__________________
LAV Filters - open source ffmpeg based media splitter and decoders

Last edited by nevcairiel; 8th September 2011 at 21:43.
nevcairiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 22:45   #5358  |  Link
mandarinka
Registered User
 
mandarinka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
It *should* use the MMX version on any Athlon that has SSE2, but does not have SSE4a. Apparently the ffmpeg developers came up with that scheme to detect if a Athlon has slow SSE2.
This nitpick is probably going to be almost irrelevant, but for the sake of completeness...

I suspect that noone has tested this heuristic for the lowend/low-power AMD chips (Bobcat core, a.k.a. Ontario/Zacate/E-350/C-50 etc).
Those cpus reportedly have support for SSE1-3,SSSE3 and SSE4a (and no 3dNow), According to some unofficial info, the SSE instructions get split into two microops just like how it was on A64. OTOH that doesn't necessarily mean it also has to have SSE2 slower than MMX like K8, though.
mandarinka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th September 2011, 23:31   #5359  |  Link
glorp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I really don't have much MKVs with subtitles. How is the default flag really used? Do people typically keep it on the one stream that mkvmerge put it on, just because? Or does it have a meaningful use?
I don't think Haali really respects it at all (possibly depending on which set of Haali options are used). The advanced option doesn't seem to care anything about the forced flag since it doesn't have any kind of syntax for dealing with it nor have I ever noticed it overriding my old configuration. That's what caused me some initial grief with LAVFSplitter's sub handling because I couldn't simply switch over to relying on the 'Select Only Forced' subs option. The ones I wanted weren't always marked forced. And I imagine this will often be the case in 'third party' muxes.

I do use forced now however as you set up the option and I think it would be valubale to at least respect it for cases like "english for non-english parts" sub tracks. I went thru and changed all the desired tracks to 'forced' in my muxes (thanks to whoever suggested using mkvmerge header editor for that) so that I could still get the same on/off sub behavior.

Last edited by glorp; 8th September 2011 at 23:37.
glorp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2011, 00:28   #5360  |  Link
STaRGaZeR
4:2:0 hater
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
But then, a default setting will never be perfect, its really a matter of choice.
Indeed. But I would do it like Haali for these two reasons: because I do think it is the best default approach when there are no user settings; and because it's already on Haali, the "reference" MKV splitter, so most people expect Haali behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I can certainly configure it like that. When no languages are configured (and settings not touched in general), use forced/default, but nothing else.
I would tie that to the audio settings, though, so when the user configures audio languages, but no subtitle languages, then at least it trys to select a forced track that matches the audio language - if one is present. If no match is found, fallback to the old logic and try any forced track, and then the default track.
That sounds nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
I really don't have much MKVs with subtitles. How is the default flag really used? Do people typically keep it on the one stream that mkvmerge put it on, just because? Or does it have a meaningful use?
Typically mkvmerge does everything because muxers either don't know about the option or they don't care, which means default flag in the first track. I've only seen two cases where users explicitly set them manually:

- When you want subs in your MKV but disabled by default, like in all other containers without flags. To do this, you set all of them as no in mkvmerge. Since there are no flags, Haali doesn't display any subs as intended.
- When you have several subs in your MKV, and you want to display a track by default that isn't the first one.

Both cases assume Haali default behavior: no subs unless the flag is set.
__________________
Specs, GTX970 - PLS 1440p@96Hz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manao View Post
That way, you have xxxx[p|i]yyy, where xxxx is the vertical resolution, yyy is the temporal resolution, and 'i' says the image has been irremediably destroyed.
STaRGaZeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
decoders, directshow, filters, splitter

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.