denoiser comparison for analogue caps

[Chainmax]

Didée: it does remove the noise which is very impressive in and of itself, but the result looks extremely softened too. Will this have adjustable strength? Also, in your own words, how does LTSMC compare to PixieDust and LRemoveDust in terms of operation and side effects?

[Didée]

Since I did not have any source with really strong noise, I added artificial noise manually. So I can also show you the underlying original:



As you can see, overall softening surely is there, but it's not that bad, considering the extreme amount of noise I had thrown in.
(Note: the color shift was not introduced by the denoising, but on noise creation: I wasn't careful enough and accidentially introduced an offset )

How it compares? PixieDust's result you've already seen - it doesn't cut it, the noise is too much for it (same goes for GoldDust). However, the "blocking" artefacts typical to MC'ed denoisers will NOT occur. This is one of the main objectives for LTSMC.

LRemoveDust also is way too weak for such noise. It's parent, kassandro's original RemoveDust, performs like this:

RemoveDust(4):


RemoveDust(4).RemoveDust(4):


So, a single RemoveDust() leaves the clip in the middle of nowhere. Double appliance still doesn't fully cut down the noise, but already makes the result unusable by its side effects.


As of now, the problems are:

1) The current method of artefact protection indeed causes some unwanted softening on sharp sources (trying to find a better one)

2) In its current form, it is close to unusable: Due to some, erhm, uneducated usage of MVTools, switching on LTSMC's stronger features will cause h.u.g.e. memory consumption. Read: without at least 1GB of RAM, don't even think of using it. 2GB would be recommended.

For 2) I know the solution already (Manao enlightened me ). But currently I can't work at all on this function. Too little time, my world is breaking apart.

However in the meantime, many of the used sub-functions were already improved in other contexts. So the last state of the script is already obsolete ....

The nosey ones might have a look here. But again: usage is not recommended.


Credits: LTSMC is based on and inspired by Manao's "efficace()" function.

[Chainmax]

If you want a noisy, crappy clip to try LTSMC on, then use my immortal enemy. I'd be very interested to know how it deals with it.

[North2Polaris]

Originally Posted by mg262

@North2Polaris
It's been a long time since they did that test... (assuming the source clips are still up), did you try it? How are the results (in your eyes) if you did?

@mg262
Based on Wilbert's posts in other threads, I know that he is busy with other projects, but I thought I would ask first before trying this myself. One of the great things about this forum is that a simple question can lead to a very interesting discussion in an unanticipated direction.

Originally Posted by mg262

@North2Polaris
But about a year or so later it seemed, at least to me, that the ground rules had changed completely... there were sufficiently good motion estimation + compensation tools out there (MVTools) that all the denoising filters would have to be tested against Dust again but this time with a motion compensation forward/back frames interleaved in.

@mg262
Based on this, do you use Dust (or other filters) with motion compensation forward/back frames interleaved in using a motion estimation and compensation tool like MVTools? If yes, would you be willing to share your script?

Thanks.

North

[mg262]

You're welcome to any script I have ever used... but I only tried this once, back before reinstalling my OS, so you'll have to wait a bit for me to dig it out. I didn't try motion compensation with Dust ... Dust has its own motion compensation, so I don't think this would necessarily be a useful direction to go. I tried it with PeachSmoother ... I think ... but I can't remember for sure. It was a script written when I knew very very little about video, so I'm not sure it will help you much anyway. If you try putting together a script and it won't run, I'm sure people will help.

[Soulhunter]

Originally Posted by North2Polaris

Fizick's FFT3DFilter (Version 1.3 - July 20, 2005) has reached a point where it may be better at denoising and preserving detail than PixieDust...

FFT3DFilter is a excellent denoiser for DVD (and similar) sources...

But I dont think its able to remove "TV interferences" like in Wilbert's samples!?


Bye

[Wilbert]

Guys, instead of just talking, you can also download my clips and run script on it. I promise i will merge the results when i'm back.

[mg262]

Originally Posted by Wilbert

Guys, instead of just talking, you can also download my clips and run script on it.

I think Didée's example has left the rest of us scared to try!

[Didée]

[OT]
Important (maybe) note

Please note that all my AviSynth scripts are slow, totally useless, and either have no effect at all, or make the output worse than the input originally was. This is because I don't know what I'm doing, don't know what I'm saying, and have bad eyesight close to blindness.

Proof:

funny reading #1

funny reading #2

These are (roughly) the entry points into discussions that start out rather harmless and slowly, but then quickly pick up speed. It's pretty *much* text to read, sure. But as a reward, they reveal lots of ... interesting insights

So: don't say you were not warned ... think twice and more before using any of my scripts. All of them are nothing but a waste of time

Yes, this was mean. I just can't stand it any more.

Excuse: Over there, it is stated that all my work is just plain bullsh*t. Since I post most of my stuff here on Doom9's, this potentially is of interest to the community members here. Hence the note.

[/OT]

[mg262]

Originally Posted by Didée

Please note that all my AviSynth scripts are slow, totally useless, and either have no effect at all, or make the output worse than the input originally was. This is because I don't know what I'm doing, don't know what I'm saying, and have bad eyesight close to blindness.

This does not sound good. I think from my last two posts you will already know my opinion of your scripts, so I won't repeat it.* But if you were to Google (to take a random example) 'SixOfNine' or '6of9 matrix' you may find a more representative sample opinions of your work.

For what it's worth, if I'm in mfps territory I generally find ways to slow my scripts down (cf QuadDust...). And to make a more serious point, albeit which might get me flamed, speed is cheap -- ideas are expensive. ... someone else can always come along later and make a plug-in; writing C++ or ASM is far far easier than coming up with the ideas.

*It will be a little while before I have time to wade through those threads... I did try to start skimming one, but it seemed to be about sterility ...

[Soulhunter]

@ Didée

Just the usual surliness...

You should be already used to this!


Bye

[Didée]

Well, you can see it as some sort of politeness:

Since he cannot post in this forum anymore, I took the freedom to direct others to a place where he is still allowed to produce his points of view.

(And if you're not involved personally, its makes a quite funny reading for sure)

[mg262]

@North2Polaris,

to my great annoyance I simply cannot find that script; the final script for that source is there but doesn't contain any motion estimation. I am sorry about that.
_______

I can remember some things from that experiment, and this seems like a good place to set them down. (Please remember that I'm much less concerned about speed than most.)

- The biggest problem was the discontinuity between blocks. This could be reduced to some extent by switching to 4x4, but the accuracy of motion finding dropped considerably.
- I thought of some (slow) ways around this; one was to use a 8x8 context for finding the blocks, but only retain the central 4x4 part. The other is to use overlapping blocks, and blend the blocks at the edges.

Please bear in mind that this may all reflect my inexperience with MVTools. It is also likely that someone has thought of these or better variants already; in particular, I know nothing about efficace, and I haven't delved into LTMSC yet (mainly because I'm very bad at making sense of complex scripts).

[Chainmax]

Didée, you can't possibly take what those people say seriously. Your scripts are terrific and work wonders for most people. You shouldn't let yourself be affected by those few who claim your filters don't work because they bitch at anything anyway.

By the way, aside from my immortal enemy clip, you can also try the halo torture clip as a test for LTSMC.

[Didée]

"Those" people is only *one* people, actually - No, it's really not to be taken serious. But it's frustrating when carved-in-stone conclusions are drawn from smattering, and even explaining the relations actually taking place doesn't help. Feels like talking to a wall ... a wall that throws an echo distorted through 1000 dB amplification ...

From your "immortal enemy", I DL'ed only the first half (brave enough - 56k modem...). This first half does not look that extremely challenging, honestly said. Does it get worse in the 2nd half? What's your current solution so far? Seems to me as if LTSLP already could do a reasonable job on it, but didn't try yet - possibly it will leave some mosquitos around lines that are moving. (PM me if you need a custom solution - then I'll tell you "no time" ).

The "halo torture" is another story ... it's suffers more from dirt than from noise, and for dirt you need a dedicated dirt cleaner, not a temporal smoother.

[Chainmax]

The biggest problem with the immortal enemy clip are the blocks, which can be diminished by a denoiser. There are other, less evident issues that are quite hard to handle as well. I'll try LTSLP (why the underline?). As for the halo torture clip, do you really think something like removedirt() will help? Oh well, it doesn't hurt to try .

[mg262]

What is this legendary halo torture clip of which you speak? Forum search doesn't yield anything and Google ... well, trust me, you just don't want to know

[Chainmax]

Originally Posted by mg262

What is this legendary halo torture clip of which you speak? Forum search doesn't yield anything and Google ... well, trust me, you just don't want to know

Hahaha, lol. I am imagining something that involves dogs, leather and whips
The halo torture clip is maybe the nastiest clip I ever saw. It's a sample from one of the extras from the Simpsons First Season R4 NTSC DVDs. The halos are so awful that a custom function had to be made to remove them.