"Cinavia"/Verance BluRay audio watermark protection

[rotty]

Originally Posted by Ghitulescu

And still there are problems to be solved:

• the same disc played in the US is ok, in Canada not - various countries with various terms
• reissues of copyrighted works or extentions of term for a particular work - it happened several times with some movies
• fair use issues where applicable

and last but not least, to keep the humour side

• the studios must know beforehand when eg George Lucas will die (maybe they'll prepare the engraved grave in advance as well)

LOL, Quote from your post: The studios must know beforehand when eg George Lucas will die (maybe they'll prepare the engraved grave in advance as well)

The ingraving on his grave will change anyway, hes never satistifed and will have extra words put in that spoil it, then it will be redone in 3D.

But seriously, the watermark could have a unique number for each title. No date would be needed. The players, updated say each year at least, could hold the list of title numbers that could be played now (as copies) as copyright had expired.
4 Bytes each title would be enough, would give 8 character Hex (billions of numbers).

[hello_hello]

Sony seems to have forgotten Australia.

The rest of the world seems to have current Bluray player firmware updates to "Improve BRAVIA Internet Video connectivity"... oh.... and to add Cinavia.... but here in Australia we don't seem to warrant "Improved BRAVIA Internet Video connectivity".... or Cinavia.....

[diogen]

A nicely researched (doom9 forums including) summary article about (mostly) BD DRM protection with emphasis on Cinavia
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5693/c...elfdestruction
The best watermarking (from the Felten's SDMI challenge times) explanation I've ever read.



I didn't know there is (was?) an attempt to sue Slysoft in Antigua...

The one-liner conclusion (from the article) would be

We have seen that Cinavia is effective only in one piracy scenario, and that scenario is actually quite unlikely in real life.

Short and to the point.

Diogen.

[rotty]

Originally Posted by diogen

A nicely researched (doom9 forums including) summary article about (mostly) BD DRM protection with emphasis on Cinavia
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5693/c...elfdestruction
The best watermarking (from the Felten's SDMI challenge times) explanation I've ever read.



I didn't know there is (was?) an attempt to sue Slysoft in Antigua...

The one-liner conclusion (from the article) would be


Short and to the point.

Diogen.

Yes an interesting artical.

Also interesting about SlySoft.


As ive always said:

We get what we deserve.

Dont buy Cinavia infected disks.

If we buy a Cinavia watermarked disk then we cannot complain about Cinavia, we cannot moan, winge, say a bad word. We are supporting it. We are making it happen.

[MRCOCOset]

(I am of Polish translated by Google)
WELCOME. I do not know if this has already been described in this thread. So excuse me if I repeat.
Inspired by that someone wrote above that the code is stored in the upper parts of the soundtrack I decided to cut the upper part of the path of CINAVIA film (for me CARRANGE with dts) from 48kHz to 32kHz (as in Divix once).

First I open MKV with DTS x64 media coder and the formation of 32kHz stereo MP3 file (2 minutes work at 3GHz 4 cores)

PS. You can also create .ac3 5.1/32khz

Second I open MKV with DTS MKVToolnix and add the path mp3 32kHz and delete dts. (MUX without compression)

Third It works! D5500 BD player does not detect CINAVIA

[Ghitulescu]

How is the quality of the sound in 32kHz?

[MRCOCOset]

So if you cut off a little treble. It's always a solution.

[diogen]

Personally, I wouldn't mind cut-off at 16kHz.
Statistically speaking, the majority at the age of 50+ won't hear it anyway (I'm one of them).

But I'm not sure that's what Cinavia is all about. From the linked article

...Verance's watermarking scheme involved frequency domain modifications, hiding multiple time-varying echoes. Note that the human ear is not sensitive to echoes involving speech and music where the delay is less than 50 ms. In fact, only echoes with a time difference of 100 ms or more become annoying. Verance's scheme involved echoes with delays varying between 0.5 ms and 1.75 ms, rendering them indecipherable to the human ear.

Doesn't sound like storing information in inaudible frequency range. And this was 10+ years ago.

BTW, what is CARRANGE? And what was the bitrate of the MP3 soundtrack?

Diogen.

[kalehrl]

BTW, what is CARRANGE?

I believe he meant the film Carnage.

[Big Vern]

Originally Posted by MRCOCOset

(I am of Polish translated by Google)
WELCOME. I do not know if this has already been described in this thread. So excuse me if I repeat.
Inspired by that someone wrote above that the code is stored in the upper parts of the soundtrack I decided to cut the upper part of the path of CINAVIA film (for me CARRANGE with dts) from 48kHz to 32kHz (as in Divix once).

First I open MKV with DTS x64 media coder and the formation of 32kHz stereo MP3 file (2 minutes work at 3GHz 4 cores)

PS. You can also create .ac3 5.1/32khz

Second I open MKV with DTS MKVToolnix and add the path mp3 32kHz and delete dts. (MUX without compression)

Third It works! D5500 BD player does not detect CINAVIA

So, you actually done this yourself? Or is it a cut n paste job from elsewhere?

***EDIT*** Just notcied the date of this blokes post...............APRIL 1st

[Smoker25]

I bought a new BD player yesterday - Sony BDP-S780. I updated it to the latest firmware without realizing that it contains Cinavia and now I found out that it's impossible to downgrade to one of the previous versions.

I tried disconnecting my router from the Internet but it didn't help. Message 3 appears and the audio is muted either immediately or after 20 mins or so.

Do you guys have any tips on how to avoid Cinavia?

[Guest]

[Bump after approval from moderated posts queue. Note: our spam filter sometimes trips erroneously on posters with low post counts.]

[diogen]

Originally Posted by Smoker25

Do you guys have any tips on how to avoid Cinavia?

Since you bought it just yesterday, take it back.
If they don't have a no-question-asked policy, "invent" a problem...

Diogen.

[setarip_old]

Just curious - Does anybody know if the hardware manufacturers are putting "Cinavia" labels on their products?

[hello_hello]

Originally Posted by diogen

Since you bought it just yesterday, take it back.
If they don't have a no-question-asked policy, "invent" a problem...

The player lists MKV files as a playable file type in the manual (at least my 480 does) and he wants to use it to play MKV files. If it won't play his Bluray MKV encodes because of Cinavia, the problem is real.

I agree with diogen, if you can take it back and/or exchange it, it's worth a shot. It might already ship with Cinavia, but as Cinavia has only been compulsory for a couple of months, there's a chance the shop is still selling players with older firmware which aren't inflicted with it. Or there may be another brand/model which is Cinavia free.

I own a Sony player so I've been paying a bit of attention to their firmware. Please don't take this as gospel, but....
Sony seems to have forgotten Australia (where I live) and hasn't inflicted us with any new, Cinavia infected firmware as of yet. While the firmware is supposed to be country/region specific, each new firmware release seems to have the same version number regardless of region. The latest firmware release for Australia is M07.R.0579, dated Nov 2011. It's not advertised as containing Cinavia and it seems only to be newer versions of firmware released elsewhere which do (from Feb 2012 onwards). So basically if you can check the player's firmware in the shop before exchanging the player and it's using the above firmware, I'd be fairly confident it's Cinavia-free. Or alternatively see if you can exchange it for another Cinavia-free player, although it'd be a pity as the Sony players are otherwise quite good.

I guess the only problem is one day you may want to update the player's firmware to make it compatible with newer discs but if you want to remain Cinavia free you won't be able to. Unless you want to own two players (one with Cinavia free firmware for playing MKVs) it might pay to start looking at alternative media players for playing your encodes.

[hello_hello]

Originally Posted by setarip_old

Just curious - Does anybody know if the hardware manufacturers are putting "Cinavia" labels on their products?

I don't know, but I'd be surprised. I'd have a similar question though.....
Does anyone know if are manufacturers still shipping models which were current before Feb 2012 with Cinavia free firmware?

Maybe it's too early to answer either question as manufacturers could still be shipping pre-Feb stock and/or shops could still be selling it.

[MRCOCOset]

Originally Posted by kalehrl

I believe he meant the film Carnage.

1) yes film
2) max bitrate
3) so I

[diogen]

Originally Posted by MRCOCOset

2) max bitrate

Meaning what? 256kbps? 320kbps? VBR?

I'll ask differently: what was the size of the MP3 soundtrack file you replaced the DTS with?

Diogen.

[MRCOCOset]

Originally Posted by diogen

Meaning what? 256kbps? 320kbps? VBR?

I'll ask differently: what was the size of the MP3 soundtrack file you replaced the DTS with?

Diogen.

CBR 320kbps or vbr max quality or ac3 5.1 640kbps

[CruNcher]

Something else might be not so oftopic @ all

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57...paa-executive/

http://news.cnet.com/8618-31921_3-57...&tag=mncol&txt

either he saw the light @ the end of the tunnel or a very big number on a check that the advocate couldn't resist you decide