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6th May 2018, 04:19 | #21 | Link |
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I just tested it on my system, Nvidia's "use default color settings" produces full for me, limited does produce limited too.
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madVR options explained |
6th May 2018, 05:57 | #22 | Link |
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Hi and thank you Asmodian for your input. It is highly appreciated.
Asmodian, could you please further explain your findings above and the implications it might have. Hi Warner306, yes I also read that Manni have had different findings depending on different drivers, I use the driver that Manni recommends which is the NVIDIA 385.28 driver. I find it weird that the greens are not shoving when using NVIDIA Full. I also cant explain that when using "NVIDIA Full > Madvr Tv level > JVC Standard" I get Red and Blue Color flashing to 219-243 (no green flashing) but in "NVIDIA Full > Madvr Pc level > JVC Enhance" the colors Red and Blue only goes up to 233 (no green flashing). In both these settings the black and white bars flashes the same and Gray scale is good. Let me take the time and be a little more specific and further explain my settings. This is what I use: WIN 10 64-bit, version 1709 (no spring update) with NVIDIA GTX 1060 (385.28 driver) JRiver (24.0.20, 64-bit) with Madvr (0.92.14) JVC RS420/X5500 projector (4K, capable of receiving 12-bit). Under display and Change resolution: "NVIDIA Standard" is when I use standard color setting in the NVIDIA control panel = 32-bit, 8bpc, RGB and Limited "NVIDIA Full" is when I use NVIDIA color setting in the NVIDIA control panel = 32-bit 12bpc, RGB and Full Question: In the NVIDIA control panel under Video, there are two options, Adjust video color settings and Adjust video image settings. Both are set to "With the video player settings" is this correct? Last edited by arcspin; 6th May 2018 at 06:28. |
6th May 2018, 07:44 | #23 | Link | ||||||
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OK, I was probably not correct about what was happening in my last post. It is possible to get the same results multiple ways but also some of your results don't match the GPU set to limited range.
A good test is to put madVR on limited range. With madVR set to TV levels it leaves the pattern as intended, 16 is still 16 and 235 is still 235. With madVR set to full range it expands the pattern so 16=0 and 235=255, clipping everything in the pattern below 16 and above 235. Quote:
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You know, I think your projector has been calibrated to show double compressed video properly while it is in limited range mode. Edit: But only if the GPU is set to limited range, if the GPU is full range it seems to be calibrated to show normal limited range video properly in Standard. In the user manual it doesn't sound like your projector has any input range detection method when not using "Auto", is it possible it changes calibrations based on the GPU's dynamic range setting? I wouldn't have thought so. Quote:
Edit: These results with the GPU in full range do not match above. Quote:
NVIDIA Full > Madvr Pc level > JVC Enhance = White 230-235 flashes, Black 25-17 flashes, Color 219-233 red and blue flashing, no green flashing. Grey scale in good I don't see how both this (also a good option): NVIDIA Full > Madvr Tv level > JVC Standard = White 230-235 flashes, Black 25-17 flashes, Color 219-243 red and blue flashing, no green flashing. Grey scale is good and: NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Tv level > JVC Standard = White 230-235 flashes, Black 25-17 flashes, Color 219-233 red blue and green flashing. Grey scale is good Can be true at the same time. Edit2: Also, since you know the calibration was done in super white mode I would also like to see how that looks with madVR in limited range and the GPU in both full and limited ranges. More data is needed to figure this out.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 6th May 2018 at 08:55. |
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6th May 2018, 10:33 | #24 | Link | |
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NVIDIA Full > Madvr Tv level > JVC Super White = White all flashing, Black 25-17 flashes, Color 219-243 red flashing, 219-239 blue flashing, 219 green flashing, Grey scale white is off and black is good I can adjust contrast to calibrate Gray scale to good white. NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Tv level > JVC Super White = White all flashing, Black 25-17 flashes, All Colors are flashing. Grey scale white is off, black is good I can adjust contrast to calibrate Gray scale to good white and subsequently the White flashes 230-234 and Red, Green and Blue flashes 219-233. With JVC set to Super White I can easily raise the white flashing bars, however the white will then be off when inspecting Grey Scale but calibrated I will get perfect white in gray scale. I can´t go any higher than 26-17 with the black bars. Test number 2 - this time with Madvr set to custom 16-255 NVIDIA Full > Madvr Custom level 16-255 > JVC Super White = White 230-234 flashing, Black 25-17 flashes, Color 219-231 red flashing, 219-221 blue flashing, no green flashing. Grey scale white is good, black is good NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Custom level 16-255 > JVC Super White = White 230-234 flashing, Black 25-17 flashes, All Colors 219-233 flashing. Grey scale white is good, black is good Update: With this setting I do not have to change the professional calibrators contrast and brightness settings. It seems like the "NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Custom level 16-255 > JVC Super White" is the best set up in regards of not having to change the professional calibrators settings. However I am in this set up stuck in 8 bit (as reported by thc JVC PJ) but upon reading in other threads this is not a big issue and as Asmodian earlier stated "people are not noticing a change in image quality" So I'm good with that. Last edited by arcspin; 6th May 2018 at 12:27. Reason: Ok, I'm done editing this post |
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6th May 2018, 13:33 | #25 | Link |
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Very interesting, not needing to change the calibrators contrast and brightness settings is always a good sign.
However, you get the right flashing bars at the high end because madVR is clipping everything above 235 to 235 when it is set to output 16-255, so you don't really know what your projector is doing. I think you may have found a good option but you still seem to have an extra range compression step and you want as little range compression as you can while seeing only 17-234 flashing. It is OK if you can see 235 or 6 as well but you really don't want to be able to see 16. How do these look using the calibrator's settings? NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Pc level > JVC Enhance Or NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Pc level > JVC Super White Also try a video with some shadows, you can usually tell if you are stretching and clipping shadows pretty quickly with video while the test bars just get more distinct.
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madVR options explained |
6th May 2018, 14:01 | #26 | Link |
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I really like the discussion on the full chain since I will have to deal with it also with a JVC shortly as well
I got some more questions in regards to 3DLUT and dynamic HDR. I was thinking even though most projector users seem to use HDR to SDR conversion and then have dynamic HDR if thats needed at all. Question 1: Are 3DLUT corrections made by madvr also used for HDR and 3D content? Question 2: Are 3DLUT corrections by madvr dynamic? In other words is madvr correcting the output depending on each frame or is it more a general correction independend from the content played? Question 3: Are 3DLUT corrections also made while having HDR on passthrough? I would guess not since passthrough somehow implies it is not getting touched just want to be sure . If passthrough is not the right setting which one would be better to use 3DLUT or other optimizations on HDR content without performing a HDR to SDR conversion first? NoTechi |
6th May 2018, 15:50 | #27 | Link | |
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Quote:
I cant get the bars to go any further by changing the contrast or the brightness, so max 17 in black and max 234 in white. NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Pc level > JVC Enhance = White 230-234 flashing, Black 25-17 flashes, All Colors 219-233 flashing. Grey scale white is good, black is good =The picture looks washed out as it is much brigher. NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Pc level > JVC Super White = White 230-234 flashing, Black 25-17 flashes, All Colors 219-233 flashing. Grey scale white is good, black is good =Can't see any difference between this and "NVIDIA Standard > Madvr Custom level 16-255 > JVC Super White" Movies looks good, I have tested it with the 2017 IT where there are a lot of darkness and shades. Last edited by arcspin; 6th May 2018 at 15:52. |
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6th May 2018, 19:05 | #28 | Link | |
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2. I believe the 3D LUT corrects each pixel: input -> correction -> output. 3. HDR passthrough is unaffected by 3D LUTs. A 3D LUT is used for HDR -> SDR conversion if it is selected in the SDR calibration menu. madVR converts HDR to SDR and the 3D LUT is left to process the SDR output as it would any other video. If you are using custom curves with HDR passthrough, you may not see much benefit from using madVR's tone mapping in its current state. If you aren't using custom curves, then madVR's tone mapping will offer more flexibility in customizing the brightness of the HDR image. Here is a copy-and-paste of the information I've collected on the various HDR options: madVR offers five methods for dealing with HDR metadata:
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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6th May 2018, 20:50 | #29 | Link | |
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Very nice collection of the HDR options! The last one sounds like the one I was looking for if I get it right. There would be no HDR to SDR conversion but the HDR signal would be dynamically corrected according to the 3DLUT. Anyhow many thanks again for all the great and fast replies getting me on track and in the end I am sure I will just have to try some options to find the solution I like most NoTechi |
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7th May 2018, 19:59 | #30 | Link |
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Hi all,
I think I have figured out what is wrong with my settings. In NVIDIA control panel when I switched from Full to Limited I did not change the color bit depth at all, it was always on 12bpc. (and that is why the greens always were messed up) When I switched to use the standard color settings in NVIDIA control panel the bit depth went to 8bpc by default. (and the greens went ok) So, with that in mind I have now tried a few set ups with NVIDIA in Full and 8bpc: (If I understod our previous conversation correctly it is preferred to have NVIDIA to FULL and Madvr to TV level) NVIDIA Full 8bpc > Madvr Tv level > JVC Super White = If I increase the contrast I will get perfect white, gray scale ok and all color bars flashing 219-233. Blacks I can't raise above 17. NVIDIA Full 8bpc > Madvr Tv level > JVC Enhance = If I change contrast and brightness I will get perfect white, gray scale ok and color bars flashing 219-233. I can get all White, Black and Color bars to flash or disappear by changing contrast and brightness. NVIDIA Full 8bpc > Madvr Tv level > JVC Standard = Blacks I can't raise above 17, whites I can't raise above 234 and all color bars flashing 219-233 and I can't raise those either. With these new test results, is NVIDIA Full 8bpc > Madvr Tv level > JVC Enhance to be the preferred set up? Movies also looks good with calibrated contrasts and brightness Last edited by arcspin; 7th May 2018 at 20:02. |
7th May 2018, 20:32 | #31 | Link | |
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Quote:
Starting to making more sense now.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 7th May 2018 at 20:34. |
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7th May 2018, 20:56 | #32 | Link |
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Hi and thanx for a quick response,
yeah, I did not quite understand why the green color messed everything up, I still can't understand why this only works in 8bpc and not 12bpc? Could it be that the equipment* he used is in 8bpc and therefor calibrated to give perfect values only in 8bpc? yes, with the calibrators settings everything looks good in NVIDIA Full 8bpc > Madvr Tv level > JVC Standard Just for good measures I did a test with Madvr set to custom level 16-255 and JVC to Super White. I did get the exact same result as in NVIDIA Full 8bpc > Madvr Tv level > JVC Standard. I think in the end that we solved it, many thank you´s for taking the time and debugging my system. *This is what he used calibrating my PJ. METER: SpectraCal C6 Manufacturer: X‐Rite Serial #: 00103663 SOURCE: Murideo 6G Generator Manufacturer: Murideo Info: Murideo 6G Generator 115200 baud Last edited by arcspin; 7th May 2018 at 20:58. |
8th May 2018, 02:05 | #33 | Link |
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I do not think it is a matter of equipment, I am not sure what it is, maybe your projector simply doesn't like 12 bit full range RGB for some reason?
The SpectraCal 6 is Calman's bundled version of the i1 Display Pro, a good meter. I have the retail one (and Calman) and they have no issues with higher bitdepths, bit depth is not something meters notice, they are only looking at the screens brightness, hue, saturation, etc based on light sensors behind color filters. edit: That generator was generating 8bit patterns but the projector should show the same image when receiving 8 or 12 bit 100% white. I am glad you found a good option and "NVIDIA Full 8bpc > Madvr Tv level > JVC Standard" is a normal calibration mode without anything that makes me think it shouldn't be like that.
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madVR options explained Last edited by Asmodian; 8th May 2018 at 02:09. |
13th May 2018, 11:25 | #34 | Link |
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I have a X-Rite i1Display Pro arriving next week to start the 3DLUT fun
Beside that I am really happy with the results I get so far with madvr! Just one think bothers me is when it comes to playing 3D mvc titles I need to enable the "stereoscopic 3D-function" within the nvidia driver. Thats working perfectly and I love the results I get in regards to picture quality. However if I leave this setting enabled all players (dsplayer, mpc-hc, mpc-be) will crash once they switch to full screen exclusive mode playing a non 3D movie. Knowing this I can live with it to always enable/disable the stereoscopic function manually it just bothers me since I will not achieve my goal to be able to play everything in one media center without the need to leave it NoTechi |
13th May 2018, 16:19 | #35 | Link | |
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Quote:
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
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13th May 2018, 17:11 | #36 | Link | |
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NoTechi |
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13th May 2018, 19:50 | #37 | Link |
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I do remember other users using such a batch file. Unfortunately I also don't have an example as I don't use 3D at all.
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14th May 2018, 16:38 | #38 | Link |
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A quick search for 3D batch files came up with the following link:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...le#post1828671
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HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Media Players |
14th May 2018, 22:12 | #39 | Link | |
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Thanks Warner! I just did a quick google search and gave up since there are other setup priorities atm. I should have searched this forum first My setup priorities atm: 1. Get the best picture for live TV and all types of movies (madvr with 3DLUT) 2. Get it all automated and combined within Kodi (here is where I will need the batch but it will take some more time to finish 1.) Way to go NoTechi |
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15th May 2018, 20:06 | #40 | Link |
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Hi,
I have been wondering about the 8bpc vs. 10bpc difference in color reproduction I have with my setup in NVIDIA controll panel as I mentioned in previous posts. I have one question regarding the OSD information "Ctrl+J" When I change to Exclusive mode in Madvr the OSD states: D3D11 exclusive (10bit) P010, 10bit, 4.2.0 https://photos.app.goo.gl/dmJGphQ1sqx5y9qQ2 (The information is taken from a "2160 4K, HEVC 10bit, UltraHD) Can anyone please explain what the 10 bit information means in regards to that in NVIDIA I have the output color depth to 8bpc (32-bit, RGB, 8 bpc, Full). Are there any correlation between these two bit depth numbers or am I totally out of my depth here *smile* Best regards, |
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