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Old 21st November 2014, 09:57   #1  |  Link
InstantAli3n
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Recommended Avisynth for SVP

This is my first post on the site. Most of the content is over my head (for now). So please excuse the noobishness!

Down to business. It's come to my attention that the performance of SVP can be improved by using different builds of AviSynth. However, anytime I try to change anything at all to do with avisynth it throws up error messages. I've also seen quite a few different AviSynth projects and forks going on at once with different versions in each. I am lost to put it mildly.

However, I'm not just interested in what's best (or even if there is a "best"), I'm interested in why. I want to learn about Avisynth.

I should also note that I did read this thread http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168713, but it's over a year old and doesn't give enough information about what I'm asking.

Last edited by InstantAli3n; 21st November 2014 at 10:14.
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Old 21st November 2014, 10:19   #2  |  Link
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A good starting point for learning is the Wiki.
There you will also find links to the various versions.

As for which version to use - Start with the official 2.6 and get familiar with it.
If things move too slowly, you can try out SEt's 2.6 MT which allows you to use multiple threads and can speed up thing considerably, assuming you have a multi-core CPU. However, it also potentially introduces problems like crashes due to memory limitations (although these are often caused by incorrect use).
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Old 21st November 2014, 10:42   #3  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
A good starting point for learning is the Wiki.
There you will also find links to the various versions.

As for which version to use - Start with the official 2.6 and get familiar with it.
If things move too slowly, you can try out SEt's 2.6 MT which allows you to use multiple threads and can speed up thing considerably, assuming you have a multi-core CPU. However, it also potentially introduces problems like crashes due to memory limitations (although these are often caused by incorrect use).
I've actually already read that and tried switching to a different avisynth, but I always end up with this error from SVP. http://imgur.com/MaZzEx9
I've done this a few times and end up just reinstalling SVP because I can't fix it, even after reinstalling the recommended avisynth from their own site.

I'm going to need some specifics.
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Old 21st November 2014, 10:45   #4  |  Link
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If you get that error you did not follow the instructions in the first post of SEts Avisynth MT thread. Did you copy the MT DLL to system32 (or SysWoW64 on a 64 Bit OS)?
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Old 21st November 2014, 10:51   #5  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Groucho2004 View Post
If you get that error you did not follow the instructions in the first post of SEts Avisynth MT thread. Did you copy the MT DLL to system32 (or SysWoW64 on a 64 Bit OS)?
I didn't actually get that far, I just reinstalled the base version of Avisynth to make sure I'm starting fresh, but that caused the error. I thought if the base wasn't working correctly then changing anything else would be pointless.

I will try adding the DLL to the folder anyway though! What do I know?

EDIT: Ok I've added the Set's 2.6 MT DLL to SySWoW64 and that has fixed it. The old Avisynth in there was dated 2008!

I'm amazed already. The crashes on seek with SVP enabled are gone! My god it's amazing. It's still flashing between old frames and new frames after seek (a lot more actually) but at least it's not hanging or just ending the process. Is this possible to fix by messing with something in these "scripts"?

Last edited by InstantAli3n; 21st November 2014 at 11:01.
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Old 21st November 2014, 11:30   #6  |  Link
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Originally Posted by InstantAli3n View Post
It's still flashing between old frames and new frames after seek
If you right-click the client app in the task bar, change "interface type" to "expert".
Then "turn off on seek" which ever feels better.
Don't use "don't turn off". You may introduce more problems.

I have it to "Turn off and on quickly" which reduces the caching issue.
other than that, not really much you can do about it except not jump scenes so much.
Good practice is to pause it first before jumping timeseeks.
The same when you fullscreen to a different monitor since it has to re-initialize.
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Old 21st November 2014, 11:39   #7  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
If you right-click the client app in the task bar, change "interface type" to "expert".
Then "turn off on seek" which ever feels better.
Don't use "don't turn off". You may introduce more problems.

I have it to "Turn off and on quickly" which reduces the caching issue.
other than that, not really much you can do about it except not jump scenes so much.
Good practice is to pause it first before jumping timeseeks.
The same when you fullscreen to a different monitor since it has to re-initialize.
That was actually the first thing I did when I saw the option.

"Turn off and on quickly" seems to have the caching issue just as bad as "Do not turn off", but with the added mini-freeze+fast-forward catch up it does when it resyncs. "Turn off by 1 second" circumvents the caching issue pretty well though. I guess it's a case of pick your poison.
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Old 21st November 2014, 12:01   #8  |  Link
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Just out of curiosity, what are your system specs?

I have a quad-core with no HyperThreading but goes at 3.00GHz and still has a little (Intel's) Boost to up it a smidge.
8GB of RAM and an NVidia GTX 750ti with 2GB of video ram.

I don't get nearly as many of those ghosting frames when I skip as I used to when I had just the CPU before buying an NVidia card (and ugpraded the RAM).

It could be your system specs also having some part to play.
You could also try reducing some of the settings to lessen the processing workload.
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Old 21st November 2014, 22:36   #9  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
Just out of curiosity, what are your system specs?

I have a quad-core with no HyperThreading but goes at 3.00GHz and still has a little (Intel's) Boost to up it a smidge.
8GB of RAM and an NVidia GTX 750ti with 2GB of video ram.

I don't get nearly as many of those ghosting frames when I skip as I used to when I had just the CPU before buying an NVidia card (and upgraded the RAM).

It could be your system specs also having some part to play.
You could also try reducing some of the settings to lessen the processing workload.
I've got an MSI GTX 770 Lightning 2GB OC'd to 1306MHz, An AMD FX6350 @ 4.7GHz (gaming bottleneck), 8GB of 2133MHz 9-11-11-38 RAM (originally 1866 8-9-9-24) all pushing a 2560x1440p 96Hz monitor (QNIX QX2710), running Windows 8.1 x64 on an SSD.

For software I use the latest MPC-BE Dev (1.4.3.5617) and Codecs from Shark007.net. The MPC-BE provided at Shark007.net has madVR pre integrated.

Here's a playback performance test using Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory @ 1080p - The only good one .

I made an imgur album of my madVR and SVP settings and performance. http://imgur.com/a/2hUql
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Old 22nd November 2014, 00:26   #10  |  Link
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That's odd. You shouldn't be getting that much of the frame issue when you seek.

I use KLCP with MPC-HC, so no idea how MPC-BE really works.

For MadVR "general settings", I have "use separate device for presentation" enabled.
No idea how those settings affect things like SVP but I've got them mostly enabled except for the top two.

Try disabling MadVR's smooth motion and let SVP do it.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 00:34   #11  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
That's odd. You shouldn't be getting that much of the frame issue when you seek.

I use KLCP with MPC-HC, so no idea how MPC-BE really works.

For MadVR "general settings", I have "use separate device for presentation" enabled.
No idea how those settings affect things like SVP but I've got them mostly enabled except for the top two.

Try disabling MadVR's smooth motion and let SVP do it.
I'm not sure where I read it, but keeping smooth motion enabled with SVP is ok because it handles something else. It doesn't take any extra processing from what I can tell anyway.

Use separate device for presentation has no effect that I can see.
I wonder what the flush or don't flush options mean in windowed settings. I was just messing with them and I started getting wicked bad artifacting on text and normal things too.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 01:12   #12  |  Link
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You've also got a 96Hz monitor.
Most people have 60Hz or 70/75.

Try going just double or or "source mulitplied by 3".
Most movies you watch will be 23.976/24 fps.

On a monitor that's a (near-)multiple of 24, you should see excellent smoothness at either 2x or 3x the interpolation, and probably less frame issues when seeking times.
*(near is for when the source material is 23.976, then it will be near enough to not show drastic difference, as apposed to a 60Hz monitor).

96 (instead of 48/60/72) is a lot of work, even on such a hefty machine. Interpolating to 96 in HD with a 32bit program (Avisynth; it's not been ported to x64 support; MadVR doesn't support x64 either) will have its tolls.
*SVP is not x64. Avisynth is. not SVP.

My monitor can do 60/70/75, so I just used a tool to change it to 71.928 (multiple of 23.976) and set SVP to do double only.
The difference was huge and definitely improved. Going to screen refresh rate is even more smooth and phenominal (and better than going 60 an uneven multiple of 2.5).
Although with my current rig, I have to downsize to 720p if I'm going screen refresh rate.
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Last edited by Sparktank; 22nd November 2014 at 01:15.
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Old 22nd November 2014, 08:29   #13  |  Link
InstantAli3n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparktank View Post
You've also got a 96Hz monitor.
Most people have 60Hz or 70/75.

Try going just double or or "source mulitplied by 3".
Most movies you watch will be 23.976/24 fps.

On a monitor that's a (near-)multiple of 24, you should see excellent smoothness at either 2x or 3x the interpolation, and probably less frame issues when seeking times.
*(near is for when the source material is 23.976, then it will be near enough to not show drastic difference, as apposed to a 60Hz monitor).

96 (instead of 48/60/72) is a lot of work, even on such a hefty machine. Interpolating to 96 in HD with a 32bit program (Avisynth; it's not been ported to x64 support; MadVR doesn't support x64 either) will have its tolls.
*SVP is not x64. Avisynth is. not SVP.

My monitor can do 60/70/75, so I just used a tool to change it to 71.928 (multiple of 23.976) and set SVP to do double only.
The difference was huge and definitely improved. Going to screen refresh rate is even more smooth and phenominal (and better than going 60 an uneven multiple of 2.5).
Although with my current rig, I have to downsize to 720p if I'm going screen refresh rate.
I probably should have mentioned I use ReClock to correct for 23.976 media and to resample audio to 96000Hz. My settings are adjusted to the highest quality my current level of performance allows. That is to say, I'm bottlenecked by VRAM so CPU and GPU load rarely get above 70%. Yes it's 4x interpolation at 96Hz but just going to 72Hz makes my eyes bleed. I can never go back.

That being said I'm positive it's an issue that can be resolved in the code and not settings. I'm 100% noob in all things code and AviSynth script. In fact the only "scrypt" I know of is concerning mining as you can see by my spelling. (I keep typing it that way without thinking about it)!
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