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Old 10th January 2015, 14:24   #28001  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khanmein View Post
anyone please kindly help how to fixed the error? thanks. guys did u noticed when open mpc got some delay? around 2-3 sec
about the delay try to disable DXVA. this helped someone with an AMD card.

@james calm down X-)
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Old 10th January 2015, 14:26   #28002  |  Link
khanmein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
about the delay try to disable DXVA. this helped someone with an AMD card.

@james calm down X-)
bro i didn't use DXVA & i'm not using AMD. everything u said wrong. i'm nvidia fan not amd so impossible i'm using AMD. omg can u really help don't simply said.
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Old 10th January 2015, 14:26   #28003  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
@james calm down X-)


How come nobody posted this news on this board yet?
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Old 10th January 2015, 14:29   #28004  |  Link
Qaq
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khanmein View Post
guys did u noticed when open mpc got some delay? around 2-3 sec
Perhaps. 2-3 sec is not a problem for me at all. There is a whole bunch of filters and they need to fill their buffers/queues etc.
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Old 10th January 2015, 14:33   #28005  |  Link
khanmein
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Originally Posted by Qaq View Post
Perhaps. 2-3 sec is not a problem for me at all. There is a whole bunch of filters and they need to fill their buffers/queues etc.
i keep facing the error. i del madvr or even reset to defaults still the same.
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Old 10th January 2015, 14:33   #28006  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by khanmein View Post
bro i didn't use DXVA & i'm not using AMD. everything u said wrong. i'm nvidia fan not amd so impossible i'm using AMD. omg can u really help don't simply said.
i should have known all this. sorry but my mind reading is pretty bad...
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Old 10th January 2015, 14:38   #28007  |  Link
khanmein
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i should have known all this. sorry but my mind reading is pretty bad...
if u can't help don't simple answer here thanks. i need pro guy or expert not someone simply bash around & treat me like a fool.. thanks!
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Old 10th January 2015, 15:17   #28008  |  Link
James Freeman
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I have a question about range and what will yield the best results.

Currently my arrangement is as follows:

Nvidia output RGB Full 0-255
MadVR Limited 16-235
TV Limited 16-235

This way I preserve the BTB and WTW data and calibrate via the TV controls and AVSHD709 calibration patters in mp4 format with MPC-HC.
The image behaves as though it is a good Blu-Ray player but in RGB instead of YCbCr.
Plus, the image stays in its native limited 16-235 range and no Luma dithering is used, hence calmer image.
More so, no range conversion stages at all, everything stays in its native range so no conversion errors.

My actual question is should I clip the WTW, BTB and Chroma?

Like so:
Nvidia output RGB Limited 16-235 (range conversion: Full to Limited)
MadVR Full 0-255 (range conversion: Limited to Full)
TV Limited 16-235

This will result in two range conversion stages and added dithering, but it will clip the unnecessary data.

Or so:
Nvidia output RGB Full 0-255
MadVR Full 0-255 (range conversion: Limited to Full)
TV Full 0-255

This will result in one range conversion stages (an excellent one I should add ) and added dithering, but it will also clip the unnecessary data.
BUT, my Panasonic ST60 creates banding in RGB Full and 4:4:4 chroma, with my Nvidia card (I don't have ATI card to try).
The PS3 has no banding at all in RGB Full Range 4:4:4 setting, with the same "Grey Ramp 0-255" image loaded via USB.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 10th January 2015 at 15:24.
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Old 10th January 2015, 15:30   #28009  |  Link
michkrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysteryX View Post
I'm jus thinking about something. Why do the video profiles have to be configured manually? Thinking about it, it could be auto-configured pretty easily.
(...)
madVR could do these tests and build these profiles itself.
There are many possible resolution and FPS (after deinterlacing) combinations and that's not all you need to take into account.
What if you use madvr on two (or more) different screens for example?

Another problem would be the subjectivity of some settings, for which you would need user input anyway. To make a few examples:
what is a "better" scaling algorithm - do you want lanczos with anti-ringing or jinc without ar?
is it better to have debanding or error diffusion if you have performance only for one of them?
is it better to have NNEDI luma doubling with 64 neurons or luma doubling with 32 neurons and chroma doubling with 32 neurons?
do you really need NNEDI doubling with 256 neurons for anything (assuming your GPU can handle it)?

Most importantly: at what point is the added energy consumption or rather heat and noise not really worth the miniscule quality gains?

To sum up, in my opinion it's not worth the time invested in developing such feature, especially if to make it really worth it you need user input which kind of defeats the purpose of automation
Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
So you can't replicate madVR lowering render time after exiting out of, and then back into fullscreen?
Are you sure it's not simply because you reset the stats when you toggle full screen mode?
It does happen for me because I have the decoder queue empty at first, then it gets full before I toggle full screen.
The render times do lower over time for me also without doing anything, since it's an average value.

To make sure, reset the stats with CTRL+R instead of toggling the full screen and see what happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khanmein View Post
i keep facing the error. i del madvr or even reset to defaults still the same.
If I understand you correctly and this problem occurs without madvr, please contact the player's/codecs' developers - this is madvr's thread for madvr's discussion.
If I understand you wrong, please check with other video renderers (e.g. EVR) and report back, if the problem still occurs.
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Old 10th January 2015, 15:36   #28010  |  Link
huhn
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http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post23274961

Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

There are 3 possible HTPC level configurations, when using madVR:

(1) Display wants 0-255. GPU and madVR are consequently also both set to 0-255.

This is the most recommended setup because it doesn't (shouldn't) have any banding problems, and still has all video, desktop and games with correct black/white levels. In this case test patterns need to have black at 0,0,0, obviously.

(2) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 16-235. madVR has to be set to 0-255.

This is not recommended, because the GPU stretches the madVR output, probably in 8bit without dithering, so banding could be introduced. However, this is not a big problem for ArgyllCMS. Argyll still needs to create test patterns with black at 0,0,0. The GPU will then stretch the test patterns from 0-255 to 16-235, so the display will get 16,16,16, although Argyll rendered 0,0,0. So the levels are correct.

(3) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 0-255. madVR is set to 16-235.

This is the recommended setup for best image quality if your display can't do 0-255. This setup results in banding-free madVR image quality. However, levels for desktop and games will be incorrect, because desktop and games will render black at 0,0,0, while the display expects black at 16,16,16. This is a problem for ArgyllCMS, because Argyll will create test patterns with black at 0,0,0, and the display will also receive these at 0,0,0. So basically Argyll test patterns will have wrong levels, which will screw up the whole calibration.

It is my understanding that Graeme implemented the -E switch specifically for (3), because without the -E switch Argyll test patterns would send wrong levels to the display. Basically the -E switch tells Argyll to render test patterns with black at 16,16,16 and white at 235,235,235, which Argyll never had to do before. When using VMR/EVR, you usually switch your GPU to 0-255 or 16-235. In both cases Argyll can render test patterns with black at 0,0,0, and they will still be sent to the display with the correct levels. However, due to my recommendation to use (3) if your display doesn't support 0-255, Argyll suddenly needs to render test patterns differently. Hence Graeme implemented the -E switch.

So my understanding is that -E should be used only for (3) and in no other situation. If you use the -E switch for (1), Argyll will create test patterns with black at 16,16,16 which would be incorrect!
should be option 3 for you. this feels like a Déjà-vu.
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Old 10th January 2015, 15:43   #28011  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
should be option 3 for you. this feels like a Déjà-vu.
Thanks huhn.

No its not a Déjà-vu, or an error in the matrix.
I tend to ask the same question from time to time to reassure myself that I made the right choice.

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Old 10th January 2015, 15:50   #28012  |  Link
khanmein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michkrol View Post
There are many possible resolution and FPS (after deinterlacing) combinations and that's not all you need to take into account.
What if you use madvr on two (or more) different screens for example?

Another problem would be the subjectivity of some settings, for which you would need user input anyway. To make a few examples:
what is a "better" scaling algorithm - do you want lanczos with anti-ringing or jinc without ar?
is it better to have debanding or error diffusion if you have performance only for one of them?
is it better to have NNEDI luma doubling with 64 neurons or luma doubling with 32 neurons and chroma doubling with 32 neurons?
do you really need NNEDI doubling with 256 neurons for anything (assuming your GPU can handle it)?

Most importantly: at what point is the added energy consumption or rather heat and noise not really worth the miniscule quality gains?

To sum up, in my opinion it's not worth the time invested in developing such feature, especially if to make it really worth it you need user input which kind of defeats the purpose of automation

Are you sure it's not simply because you reset the stats when you toggle full screen mode?
It does happen for me because I have the decoder queue empty at first, then it gets full before I toggle full screen.
The render times do lower over time for me also without doing anything, since it's an average value.

To make sure, reset the stats with CTRL+R instead of toggling the full screen and see what happens.

If I understand you correctly and this problem occurs without madvr, please contact the player's/codecs' developers - this is madvr's thread for madvr's discussion.
If I understand you wrong, please check with other video renderers (e.g. EVR) and report back, if the problem still occurs.
it related to madVR got dump file. http://www54.zippyshare.com/v/27530580/file.html
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Old 11th January 2015, 00:28   #28013  |  Link
DragonQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSunrise View Post
It seems that not only is FreeSync more flexible, but according to various CES articles, the first FreeSync monitors are limited to 40Hz at the minimum, or else they will flicker. Not sure if that's because of the pixel matrix / panel driver firmware that just isn't able to go lower, but that's the only info that I came across. More in-depth stuff seems to be still rare.

At least theoretically, 9-240Hz seems to be perfect for our needs.
The minimum refresh rate thing is strange to me. For technologies like CRT, plasma and OLED, it totally makes sense that refresh rates need to be high enough to avoid flicker. Indeed, my plasma displays 50 Hz inputs as 100 Hz and 24 Hz inputs as 96 Hz for this reason. However, don't LCDs use sample-and-hold? If so, why would there be flicker with any refresh rate?

I suppose it's largely irrelevant anyway since you can always reshow the previous frame if a new one isn't ready. For example, if your minimum refresh rate was 10 Hz (0.1 s between frames) but no frame is sent within 0.1 s, then just reshow the previous frame and wait for a new frame in the next 0.1 s. The only minor problem would be if a new frame was sent very soon after a previous frame was re-used. Whether that would cause a delay to that new frame depends on the maximum refresh rate of the monitor.
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Old 11th January 2015, 00:51   #28014  |  Link
ktsbkt
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I have a question and I'd like to report a bug as well.

I'm using a Radeon R9 290 + catalyst 14.12 on Windows 8.1 64-bit, with 2 monitors. And I've found this strange behaviour with madVR:

I don't know if you are aware of this, but I'm reporting it here in case you weren't.



And then I have a question regarding madVR's GPU usage.
Please have a look at this screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/tTjmXId.jpg
It shows that madVR is ignoring the Clockspeed limits set by MSI Afterburner. The GPU just runs at full clockspeed, and this hurts the video, since my low voltage levels forced by Afterburner still applies even on full clockspeed.

Is there a way for me to configure madVR so it respects MSI Afterburner?
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Old 11th January 2015, 01:12   #28015  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
The minimum refresh rate thing is strange to me. For technologies like CRT, plasma and OLED, it totally makes sense that refresh rates need to be high enough to avoid flicker. Indeed, my plasma displays 50 Hz inputs as 100 Hz and 24 Hz inputs as 96 Hz for this reason. However, don't LCDs use sample-and-hold? If so, why would there be flicker with any refresh rate?
Even with LCDs the pixel is not stable over time, it takes some time to get to the correct value and it will only stay at that correct value for a specific amount of time. They need to be "refreshed" (like volatile memory) or the pixels start to drift to other values. This refresh interval is the minimum frame rate.

If you don't refresh quickly enough you can notice the next refresh as a flicker because colors that were supposed to be static between the two frames changed to other values before the second frame was displayed. It is a very different mechanism for flickering (and a very different flicker) but it is still unpleasant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktsbkt View Post
I have a question and I'd like to report a bug as well.

I'm using a Radeon R9 290 + catalyst 14.12 on Windows 8.1 64-bit, with 2 monitors. And I've found this strange behaviour with madVR:

I don't know if you are aware of this, but I'm reporting it here in case you weren't.
See the first post in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
known problems / limitations:

- rotated displays (portrait vs landscape orientation) don't work yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktsbkt View Post
And then I have a question regarding madVR's GPU usage.
Please have a look at this screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/tTjmXId.jpg
It shows that madVR is ignoring the Clockspeed limits set by MSI Afterburner. The GPU just runs at full clockspeed, and this hurts the video, since my low voltage levels forced by Afterburner still applies even on full clockspeed.

Is there a way for me to configure madVR so it respects MSI Afterburner?
madVR is a game to the GPU drivers, anything they do if you launch a game they will do for madVR. There is nothing you can change in madVR to effect this. It is not madVR that is not respecting MSI Afterburner but the GPU drivers.
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Old 11th January 2015, 01:13   #28016  |  Link
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Rotated screens are not supported by madVR, known issue.
And personally I doubt madVR can influence the clockspeed that the GPU uses.
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Old 11th January 2015, 01:28   #28017  |  Link
DragonQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Even with LCDs the pixel is not stable over time, it takes some time to get to the correct value and it will only stay at that correct value for a specific amount of time. They need to be "refreshed" (like volatile memory) or the pixels start to drift to other values. This refresh interval is the minimum frame rate.

If you don't refresh quickly enough you can notice the next refresh as a flicker because colors that were supposed to be static between the two frames changed to other values before the second frame was displayed. It is a very different mechanism for flickering (and a very different flicker) but it is still unpleasant.
Thanks for the explanation. So what is the generally agreed minimum refresh rate for modern LCDs to avoid flicker then? Is G-Sync's 30 Hz minimum about right here? Or perhaps it's different for TN/MVA/IPS?

I know that my laptop screen is capable of reducing to 40 Hz to conserve power, although I turned this feature off because the difference is noticeable to me.
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Old 11th January 2015, 18:07   #28018  |  Link
Mr Alpha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonQ View Post
Thanks for the explanation. So what is the generally agreed minimum refresh rate for modern LCDs to avoid flicker then? Is G-Sync's 30 Hz minimum about right here? Or perhaps it's different for TN/MVA/IPS?

I know that my laptop screen is capable of reducing to 40 Hz to conserve power, although I turned this feature off because the difference is noticeable to me.
I've seen people complain about flickering with G-SYNC when the game stalls and the framerate drops. I suspect 30Hz might be cutting it too low.
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Old 11th January 2015, 19:12   #28019  |  Link
a8213711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
did you used print screen?

and is your TV using PC mode there is a huge change your TV can't do PC mode in any other refresh rate than 60 hz (most samsung can't do this for what ever reason)so this may trigger the issue with the saturation. and if this is the case and you want to use PC mode think about 60 HZ only and smooth madVR motion.
Yes, print screen and no difference. Also I see there are more settings (no more greyed out) in my TV after I enter this "mode".
Do PC mode means 0-255 color range and no overscan? Because changing refresh rate doesn't seem to change those.
Also let's remember it enters in this mode only after switching back from Windows Media Center.
The problem is that I suppose the preferable rate (50Hz from 25fps source) is enabled only entering this mode, but colors get worse.
As the smooth option I can't use it because I can't handle it.
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Old 11th January 2015, 23:41   #28020  |  Link
huhn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a8213711 View Post
Yes, print screen and no difference. Also I see there are more settings (no more greyed out) in my TV after I enter this "mode".
a PC mode usually disables most settings in a TV to lower input lag and give it the possiblity to show a pixel perfect image.
Quote:
Do PC mode means 0-255 color range and no overscan? Because changing refresh rate doesn't seem to change those.
the change in saturation sounds like your TV needs full range but only gets limited.
a TV normally doesn't enter PC mode on it's own. so you should know if you set it up for this or not.

[quote]Also let's remember it enters in this mode only after switching back from Windows Media Center.
The problem is that I suppose the preferable rate (50Hz from 25fps source) is enabled only entering this mode, but colors get worse. [quote]
what refresh rate is madVR reporting be for you enter WMC and what after?

Quote:
As the smooth option I can't use it because I can't handle it.
can you say why? for example you see ghosting or your GPU can't handle it or what is the issue?
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