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Old 28th March 2016, 20:16   #37241  |  Link
AngelGraves13
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
It wasn't ever in the running AFAIC.

Set sharpness to whatever you want, all are good choices depending on how bright you like it. Enabling anti-ringing is a very good idea.
Personally I prefer values of around 100-150, 25 is nice if you like something close to Jinc but without the ringing issues and better performance too
I might end up settling on 125 now.

I'd would like to know for sure what would be closest to actual 4:4:4 content, maybe someone could test that, I suspect 125 or 150 would probably be the closest.
Based on the comparison, I'd say Super-XBR 100 has less errors when scaling chroma. Reconstruction soft has some weirdness going on with the pink color inside the bubble, like it scaled it wrong. Suber-XBR does have darker lines and edges, but that's actually good for chroma and helps separate the colors. Also has the benefit of making grain look sharper.

That's just what I observed from the image though.

Last edited by AngelGraves13; 28th March 2016 at 20:19.
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Old 28th March 2016, 20:46   #37242  |  Link
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I'm have some testing ahead of me but I hope for the new SR section AB an AR settings will help with ringing artifacts when used in combination with Enhance Details. It's disappointing to hear that they're reported as less useful for SR that other types of processing though.

Last edited by markanini; 28th March 2016 at 22:31.
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Old 28th March 2016, 20:55   #37243  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by markanini View Post
I'm have some testing ahead of me but I hope for the new SR section AB an AR settings will help with ringing artifacts when used in combination with Enhance Details. It's disappointing to hear that they're less useful for SR that other types of processing though.

Are you sure enhance details is the problem? I'm not sure it touches the outside of objects, which is where the ringing would occur.

See this comparison of SuperRes with anti-bloating: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...83#post1762283.
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Old 28th March 2016, 21:36   #37244  |  Link
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For hires photos SSIM downscaling w/ AR+AB100% seemed like the best compromise. I couldn't see any obvious differences between relaxed and strict AR. I vote for whatever uses the least GPU cycles.

Last edited by markanini; 28th March 2016 at 22:37.
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Old 28th March 2016, 21:45   #37245  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
Are you sure enhance details is the problem? I'm not sure it touches the outside of objects, which is where the ringing would occur.

See this comparison of SuperRes with anti-bloating: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...83#post1762283.
No I think image doubling algorithms are more likely the cause of the ringing. ATM I'm getting around the ringing issue by using the softest kernel, NEDI.
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Old 28th March 2016, 22:41   #37246  |  Link
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I think I can now retire NEDI+SR and replace it with "super-xbr, anti-bloating:75". It's almost as good as NEDI+SR at minimizing blocking and gibbs artefacts and will use much less GPU. Note: I always have enhance detail: 1.0 pre-resize.

Last edited by markanini; 28th March 2016 at 22:45.
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Old 28th March 2016, 23:03   #37247  |  Link
leeperry
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Meaning?
Antibloat appears too strong in the new sxbr doubling options.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Is this a new problem with v0.90.16? Or does this also occur with v0.90.15?
Nope, all is well with .15 whatever SD going dark in windowed mode or 720p going dark in FSE, it's actually downscaling antibloat that triggers it in combination with NNEDI3 luma-only doubling as I just found out.
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Old 28th March 2016, 23:19   #37248  |  Link
Mistar Muffin
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I suppose you could setup a profile which has 3D disabled and one which has it enabled in the madVR settings, and assign a keyboard shortcut to them.
Thanks, that's what I'll do.

I'm trying to create a profile group under my display device and after creating the group I cannot enter text in certain text fields without focus jumping to a section in the tree above my profile group. The fields I have trouble with are the names for the profile/profile group and my profile selection rules. To elaborate, my profile group only has "display modes" in it. If I try to enter text in the fields I mentioned, the selection jumps above the profile group to "color & gamma". If I include calibration, color & gamma, and display modes in the PG, then the focus jumps up to "properties". I did the usual things like rebooting and upgrading to 0.90.17 to make sure this wasn't a bug that had been fixed. It doesn't happen when I make profile groups under scaling algorithms.

Thanks.
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:08   #37249  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by Clammerz View Post

If you looked you've probably noticed madVR doesn't have a deblocker (yet?) so you'll either need to preprocess with ffdshow, or make do.


.

How do I use ffdshow to improve clips from Youtube, I cant find this setting anywhere in madvr?
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:15   #37250  |  Link
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How do I use ffdshow to improve clips from Youtube, I cant find this setting anywhere in madvr?
MadVR doesn't interface to ffdshow at all, you have to do this in your media player which isn't relevant to this thread. I suggest googling on how to set up ffdshow for post processing.
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:17   #37251  |  Link
70MM
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I just covered this a few posts back at the top of the page. At this point you can use Avisynth and ffdshow to achieve what you want, so either read about about how to set that up or sit back and wait.
Where do I make these settings please for improving youtube?
Avisynth and ffdshow
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:18   #37252  |  Link
70MM
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MadVR doesn't interface to ffdshow at all, you have to do this in your media player which isn't relevant to this thread. I suggest googling on how to set up ffdshow for post processing.
Thank you, hopefully I find it in JRiver which Im using...

Last edited by 70MM; 29th March 2016 at 03:26.
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:26   #37253  |  Link
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Can someone help explain this for me please as I still don't understand it from Warners help section.

I want to ask about the section “add extra frames at the beginning” (cant remember the correct term)

They are defaulted to 8.
Ive mentioned Im getting an occasional jump from time to time, someone said to change from Need13 which I did but I still got the skip/jump from time to time….
Now using super xbr 100
I looked at the "add extra frames at the beginning section" and went next up from 8 but still got the occasional skipped frame..
I dropped it to 6 and it got better..
I moved it down to 4 and it was perfect...
What does this actually do and going low down to 4 is it a problem when the default is 8?
Im only using 1080p > 1080p and the card is the 970, proj RS600

Sorry Im still a bit dumb on all this stuff
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Old 29th March 2016, 03:55   #37254  |  Link
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I think you are adjusting the buffer for rendered frames, more usually provides more stability but there are many users who have better performance using smaller buffers.

With only 4 buffers you only have 4 frames rendered in advance so if your system hiccups and briefly stops rendering there isn't much time before it runs out of pre-rendered frames and you get a dropped frame. If you do not get dropped frames there is nothing wrong with small buffers, I also notice more reliable playback with smaller buffers. I think it is something with the newer Nvidia drivers and/or Windows 10 but don't really know.

If you let us know the actual term we will be more accurate with advice.
I am guessing "add extra frames at the beginning" means "rendering" -> "general settings" -> "GPU queue size".

One thing to be aware of when using small queue sizes is that the 'trade quality for performance' option, 'don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected' should be enabled.
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Old 29th March 2016, 04:12   #37255  |  Link
70MM
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
I think you are adjusting the buffer for rendered frames, more usually provides more stability but there are many users who have better performance using smaller buffers.

With only 4 buffers you only have 4 frames rendered in advance so if your system hiccups and briefly stops rendering there isn't much time before it runs out of pre-rendered frames and you get a dropped frame. If you do not get dropped frames there is nothing wrong with small buffers, I also notice more reliable playback with smaller buffers. I think it is something with the newer Nvidia drivers and/or Windows 10 but don't really know.

If you let us know the actual term we will be more accurate with advice.
I am guessing "add extra frames at the beginning" means "rendering" -> "general settings" -> "GPU queue size".

One thing to be aware of when using small queue sizes is that the 'trade quality for performance' option, 'don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected' should be enabled.
The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?
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Old 29th March 2016, 05:04   #37256  |  Link
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Oh! Of course, you mean the rendering -> windowed mode -> "how many video frames shall be presented in advance:"! I should have guessed that.

That is similar to what I described before, a buffer for frames after madVR has rendered them but this one is in Direct3D, the GPU's drivers basically, and out of madVR's hands completely. As close to the display as madVR can get it. I use three frames in advance* myself. This setting has the biggest impact in apparent seek times if "delay playback start until render queue is full" is disabled, the present queue (frames in advance) must always fill before playback can start.

*Actually I use 3 backbuffers instead of a present queue, an older method used when "present several frames in advance" is unchecked or, in my case, using "enable windowed overlay" in general settings.

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The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?
I am not sure what "look a bit odd at times" might mean but in case you are talking about presentation glitches or dropped frames....

If changing the present queue has a noticable effect you might have driver issues (is it a laptop or dual GPU?) or be using settings that are too high.

Maybe this helps?
Quote:
Toggle the On Screen Display by pressing Ctrl-J.

The sum of the average stats "deinterlace" (if present), "rendering", and "present" should be a bit below the frame time, Y, in the line "v-sync [X] ms, frame [Y] ms" to avoid dropped frames and presentation glitches. For example, progressive 29.97 fps video has a new frame every 33.37 ms so "rendering"+"present" needs to be a few ms below 33.37 ms. 23.976 fps video has a new frame only every 41.71 ms so you can use more demanding settings with lower frame rate video. Exactly how far below the frame time is required for glitch free playback is dependent on the system but a few milliseconds is usually sufficient.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 29th March 2016 at 05:16.
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Old 29th March 2016, 07:02   #37257  |  Link
Warner306
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The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?
If you are getting dropped frames every 30 seconds or so, then your settings may be too aggressive, even if your total rendering time is under the movie frame interval. Try turning your settings down to see if this corrects the problem.

If you are getting frame drops every three minutes or so, this could be clock jitter, where the audio and video clocks drift apart causing frame drops. The dropped frame estimator should predict this. Clock jitter is normal for most video cards in a HTPC.

If it is clock jitter, outputting the audio as PCM and using JRiver's VideoClock can correct this. Or you could bitstream, and you may find you can't notice these dropped frames while watching an actual movie, anyways.

If you are getting the best performance with a present queue of 4 frames, you should be fine. This is a preventative measure to prevent presentation glitches. It is not mandatory to use a queue of 8. This value was set to provide the best balance between performance and presentation issues. This should be thought of as a buffer before playback. Only if the buffer reaches 0 will you have problems.

One last thing: to stress test the present queue and determine if your settings are too aggressive, bring up a menu overlay from JRiver and observe the present queue. It should read 1-2/4. This is called low latency mode, which is designed to make the menus easier to navigate. If the present queue hits zero with the menu overlaid (0-1/4), then your settings are too aggressive for your GPU. If it stays at 1-2/4, then everything should be fine.

Last edited by Warner306; 29th March 2016 at 07:08.
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Old 29th March 2016, 07:15   #37258  |  Link
70MM
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If you are getting dropped frames every 30 seconds or so, then your settings may be too aggressive, even if your total rendering time is under the movie frame interval. Try turning your settings down to see if this corrects the problem.

If you are getting frame drops every three minutes or so, this could be clock jitter, where the audio and video clocks drift apart causing frame drops. The dropped frame estimator should predict this. Clock jitter is normal for most video cards in a HTPC.

If it is clock jitter, outputting the audio as PCM and using JRiver's VideoClock can correct this. Or you could bitstream, and you may find you can't notice these dropped frames while watching an actual movie, anyways.

If you are getting the best performance with a present queue of 4 frames, you should be fine. This is a preventative measure to prevent presentation glitches. It is not mandatory to use a queue of 8. This value was set to provide the best balance between performance and presentation issues. This should be thought of as a buffer before playback. Only if the buffer reaches 0 will you have problems.

One last thing: to stress test the present queue and determine if your settings are too aggressive, bring up a menu overlay from JRiver and observe the present queue. It should read 1-2/4. This is called low latency mode, which is designed to make the menus easier to navigate. If the present queue hits zero with the menu overlaid (0-1/4), then your settings are too aggressive for your GPU. If it stays at 1-2/4, then everything should be fine.
As usual thank you Warner for clarifying this... The skipped frame seems to only be ever so often, I notice it more on the start of a movie logo that might be turning. The same ones don't skip on my old Kodi PC, so obviously its a setting that's not right on my new JRiver Madvr PC.

Can you tell me where I find that present cue in JRiver please, Ive never seen it? Mind you there are so many settings on JRiver its a bit overwhelming! I do have their Red October VideoClock ticked on. Im bitstreaming.
This is my build.
CPU: Intel Skylake Core i7 6700 3.4Ghz
Motherboard: Asus H170M-PLUS Intel H170
Memory: 16GB 2133MHz DDR4
Video: Asus STRIX GTX 970 DirectCU II Overclocked 4GB GDDR5
Optical drive: ASUS BC-12D2HT 12x Blu-ray Reader
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB SATA3 2.5" SSD


It also looks like I have to have this disabled, I will go and check it now.
"delay playback start until render queue is full"

Last edited by 70MM; 29th March 2016 at 11:03.
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Old 29th March 2016, 08:19   #37259  |  Link
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Here are the most important areas of FEEDBACK I need:

a) Do you consider the "anti-bloating" filter useful for sharpening (LumaSharpen + AdaptiveSharpen)? If so, which strength settings do you like?
Yes, it's useful. I find AdaptiveSharpen to look more natural with anti-bloating 75% or 100%.
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b) Do you consider the anti-bloating and anti-ringing options useful for SuperRes? I think anti-bloating might not be beneficial here, but I'd like to hear your opinion. Do you see any benefit in the anti-ringing option? SuperRes already didn't ring that much, so I wonder if the separate anti-ringing post processing option is worthwhile in your opinion or not?
I only tested the anti-bloating filter so far and I don't like it for SuperRes, it removes all the benefits brought by SuperRes even with low values.

I will try to test the other features ASAP.
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Old 29th March 2016, 10:48   #37260  |  Link
Georgel
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Examples of better image because of applying 8xET + 4XES + 150AB + AR.

Before : https://www.dropbox.com/s/jaojzf26o7...efore.png?dl=0
After : https://www.dropbox.com/s/fetu0swtai...after.png?dl=0

Before : https://www.dropbox.com/s/a2n89je07z...fore1.png?dl=0
After : https://www.dropbox.com/s/0me2x00j90...fter1.png?dl=0

@huhn - please take a look.

EDIT::: IT works just as good with many other anime I have, but in general, the image is crisper and better if I am using upscaling refinement to upscale smaller images. That way, the distortions are almost in existent.

On the other hand, I think that the tradeoff with a bit of distortions still results in a better general image than without.

Last edited by Georgel; 29th March 2016 at 21:55.
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