ffdshow and Dynamic range compression

[Wile-E-Coyote]

This has been bothering me ever since I discovered this setting so I have to ask.

In the "decoder options" tab you can activate the "Dynamic Range compression" with a slider from 0 to 100%

From my understanding of DRC, it serves the purpose of reducing the difference in loudness between quiet and loud parts of a track, which is something I sorely needs since professional sound mixers love to make dialogues very quiet and action scenes very loud.

However I've tried activating and deactivating it (on DVDs and Blu-rays so sound should be AC3) and heard no difference in loudness. Also what is the slider supposed to do? Is 0% the equivalent of OFF and 100% like Fully ON?

I've searched the net for answers but couldn't find any so please guys, enlighten me.

[turbojet]

It's never had an effect for me in ffdshow or mpc* either. Instead you can use volume>normalize and check regain volume. Latest mpc-hc has the same sort of normalize but I couldn't figure out how to boost the volume much. mpc-be has the old system which takes longer to regain but volume can be boosted. Another option if you have windows 7/8 and a supported soundcard you can enable loudness equalization which affects all audio but does a great job of keeping sounds within a good range.

[leeperry]

you'll be better off using a winamp2/VST plugin in ffdshow for proper dynamics compression, and if you're downmixing to stereo an elaborated mixing matrix will make things a lot more bearable(especially with headphones).

[kopija]

Hi guys,
is there any way to use DRC in bitstreaming scenario?
Thanks!

[clsid]

The DRC option only has effect if the audio stream contains DRC information. It seems that is rarely the case.

You can find a normalize option on the Volume page in ffdshow audio decoder. That will boost the volume and compress dynamic range. MPC-HC offers a similar option (which has recently been improved to work more similar to ffdshow). Windows Vista/7/8 also offers an option as mentioned above by turbojet.

When bitstreaming, the audio data is not modified in any way. So if you need DRC-like functionality in that case, your receiver must provide it.

[Wile-E-Coyote]

Originally Posted by turbojet

Another option if you have windows 7/8 and a supported soundcard you can enable loudness equalization which affects all audio but does a great job of keeping sounds within a good range.

Thats one of the best options I've found, but it's still not enough for my taste.

Originally Posted by leeperry

you'll be better off using a winamp2/VST plugin in ffdshow for proper dynamics compression, and if you're downmixing to stereo an elaborated mixing matrix will make things a lot more bearable(especially with headphones).

I tried that. Problem is when used in ffdshow, winamp plugins aren't very easy to configure. At least the ones I've tried.

Originally Posted by clsid

The DRC option only has effect if the audio stream contains DRC information. It seems that is rarely the case.

Well that explains a lot.

Originally Posted by clsid

You can find a normalize option on the Volume page in ffdshow audio decoder. That will boost the volume and compress dynamic range.

Really? Whenever I use that it does boost the volume indeed, but doesn't compress it at all unless unless I tick "regain volume". And even that doesn't boost quiet parts enough.

Anyway thank you all for your answers. I managed to find a solution that satisfied me by using a third-party app called Breakaway Audio Enhancer. It's actually a multi-band compressor and I found it does exactly when I've been looking for, problem is it's not free. So now I'm trying to find a similar software or plugin that can be used with MPC-HC or ffdshow.

[bugmen0t]

Originally Posted by Wile-E-Coyote

I managed to find a solution that satisfied me by using a third-party app called Breakaway Audio Enhancer. It's actually a multi-band compressor and I found it does exactly when I've been looking for, problem is it's not free. So now I'm trying to find a similar software or plugin that can be used with MPC-HC or ffdshow.

You could use the Winamp version of Stereo Tool with ffdshow. It's free unless you need some specific features mainly intended for FM radio stations. I don't like any of the presets, though.







Villa Palmar Cabo Timeshare

[filler56789]

What about AC3Filter?
Have you already tested it, and concluded "it sucks too"?

http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/Using_...ge_compression

http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/Loudne..._dynamic_range

[turbojet]

Originally Posted by Wile-E-Coyote

Thats one of the best options I've found, but it's still not enough for my taste.

What were the other compressors you found just as good?

This is how I rank them:

Tier 1 (no noticeable issues)
W7 loudness equalization with either immediate checked or shortest release

Tier 2 (noticeable fluctuations but tolerable if LEQ isn't available/wanted)
MPC-HC
FFDshow
PotPlayer

Tier 3 (too many fluctuations to use/recommend)
MPC-BE
ReClock
AC3Filter
Some WinAmp DSP's (tested a few but don't remember the names, Stereo Tool was one)

Good dynamic compression must be very difficult to achieve or no FOSS devs care to work on it.

[bugmen0t]

If he wants a free version of Breakaway Enhancer, i.e. a broadcast tool including a multiband compressor which is actually used for radio and TV, Stereo Tool is the tool of choice. It is certainly able to do the job, however as said above, all the presets overcompress because they are made for agressive FM broadcast which totally sucks. One probably needs an audio engineer spending a few hours with it to come up with some nice movie settings.

Some software which is probably less known and I couldn't test:

• CSharp (only works with win7 but I'm on win8; support told me there'll be a new product for win8 some months ago)
  
• RAC (winamp plugin I couldn't get working with ffdshow)

I really read a lot about loudness the last few months and it is a tough problem, both measuring it the way humans perceive it and controlling it without causing audible artifacts. There's a lot of broadcast hardware dealing with it but unfortunately very few software.

Another complication than fluctuation I find quite disturbing is the change of spectrum the compressors cause. Dynamic equalization would be necessary to compensate for that but I don't know any free tool doing that. However multiband compression can achieve something similar.

So, if anyone knows a good loudness control software, preferable made with movies in mind, please post about it!






Villa Arco Timeshare

[Wile-E-Coyote]

Originally Posted by turbojet

What were the other compressors you found just as good?

Sorry I don't understand your question. What I meant is that W7 loudness equalization (not sure what the immediate mode does) is certainly one of the bes options because it's free and does a decent job. However the difference between quiet and loud can still be too high.

Sorry for the noobish question but what is LEQ?[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by bugmen0t

If he wants a free version of Breakaway Enhancer, i.e. a broadcast tool including a multiband compressor which is actually used for radio and TV, Stereo Tool is the tool of choice. It is certainly able to do the job, however as said above, all the presets overcompress because they are made for agressive FM broadcast which totally sucks. One probably needs an audio engineer spending a few hours with it to come up with some nice movie settings.

The thing about broadcast sound is that no matter how much noise there is around you, provided the volume of the movie/music is loud enough you will be able to hear EVERYTHING, which is not the case on a DVD / Bluray.

Now I know that compressing the sound amounts to deforming it, but if it means not having to constantly turn the volume up or down then I'm all for it.

[Wile-E-Coyote]

Originally Posted by filler56789

What about AC3Filter?
Have you already tested it, and concluded "it sucks too"?

http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/Using_...ge_compression

http://www.ac3filter.net/wiki/Loudne..._dynamic_range

Yes I have, and I find it yields the same result as ffdshow. I don't remember saying anything sucked anyway.

[turbojet]

Originally Posted by bugmen0t

If he wants a free version of Breakaway Enhancer, i.e. a broadcast tool including a multiband compressor which is actually used for radio and TV, Stereo Tool is the tool of choice. It is certainly able to do the job, however as said above, all the presets overcompress because they are made for agressive FM broadcast which totally sucks. One probably needs an audio engineer spending a few hours with it to come up with some nice movie settings.

Some software which is probably less known and I couldn't test:

• CSharp (only works with win7 but I'm on win8; support told me there'll be a new product for win8 some months ago)
  
• RAC (winamp plugin I couldn't get working with ffdshow)

I really read a lot about loudness the last few months and it is a tough problem, both measuring it the way humans perceive it and controlling it without causing audible artifacts. There's a lot of broadcast hardware dealing with it but unfortunately very few software.

Another complication than fluctuation I find quite disturbing is the change of spectrum the compressors cause. Dynamic equalization would be necessary to compensate for that but I don't know any free tool doing that. However multiband compression can achieve something similar.

Having not tested winamp dsp's for a couple years now, I decided to try the latest Stereo Tool and couldn't achieve understandable dialect after enabling AGC and tweaking other settings for about 20 minutes. Did you get anywhere with it? I don't remember having this sort of problem with the older version of Stereo Tool but know it was either ineffective or had a lot of pumping as all the dsp's I tested. RAC didn't work here either, there are some other dsp's I tried with short names like *AC but not worth finding again or suggesting.

I may try CSharp at some point, thanks for the link but really content on W7 LEQ.

Originally Posted by Wile-E-Coyote

Sorry I don't understand your question. What I meant is that W7 loudness equalization (not sure what the immediate mode does) is certainly one of the bes options because it's free and does a decent job. However the difference between quiet and loud can still be too high.

Sorry for the noobish question but what is LEQ?

When you said 'one of the best' I took that as others were better or just as good but must have misunderstood. Immediate Mode if it's available makes a postitive difference, eliminates the rare pumping. Otherwise you may have a configuration that leads to a slider to change release, moving that all the way to short also eliminates pumping.

LEQ is short for Loudness Equalization.

[mindbomb]

I'll add that for asus sound cards, "smart volume normalization" didn't do a great job imo.

[bugmen0t]

@turbojet
The 'usual' chain they recommend in the stuff I've read is: slow AGC -> equalizer -> multiband compression -> multiband limiting (most seem to use 5 bands). Of course the multiband thresholds, speeds, ratios and makeup gains need to be set differently for each band. As said above my main problem is not to completely screw up the spectral balance of the original. But then again downmixing to stereo did that already.

The win7/8 integrated equal loudness correction I can hear pumping/breathing and changing spectral balance, too. Also you cannot turn it on for movies only and I like to use an equalizer which will possibly disturb the leq.

The only thing I consider OK for now is Dolby Volume but there's no software implementation of it, right?





Villa Palmar Cabos Timeshare

[turbojet]

What does slow AGC mean? I tried the other things with stereo tool with no luck.

Are you using immediate or shortest release with leq? It really makes a difference, if you set to longest release there's more pumping then the tier 2 options above. LEQ affecting all audio I prefer but can understand others not liking it.

I don't know of any dolby volume software. DTS has a volume normalizing setting in their srs drivers but it didn't work very well on my laptop, although it did provide a large volume boost which was nice for the 4w speakers but lots of pumping and affects overall audio like leq.

edit: nevermind srs drivers don't have a normalize option but do boost all volume.

[Jok20]

LoudMax Plugin

[Wile-E-Coyote]

Originally Posted by Jok20

LoudMax Plugin

I can't make this work even in Winamp. Much less in ffdshow.

[turbojet]

LoudMax does a good job of boosting the audio without clipping but it doesn't do much with dynamic range except maybe expanding it a bit. Background noise drowned out the dialogue in the clip I tried it on.

The problem I was having with stereo tool was 32 bit enabled in ffdshow. Now that it's working correctly, the 'watch a movie' preset works pretty well by itself and comparable to loudness equalization with more depth. Unfortunately it doesn't work well with leq, there's clipping and near inaudible noises become a significant part of the audio. The clipping can probably be handled with the declipper but not sure about the other issue, will have to try tweaking stereo tool. I'm just afraid it could take a lot of time without accomplishing much and trying to prevent those situations. I'm far from an audiophile and most stereo tool options are foreign to me.

I use leq often outside of a media player otherwise stereo tool in the media player would be the best option for me so far. If only there was a way to use it on all audio.

[leeperry]

iZotope OzoneMP works perfectly in ffdshow and is a really great sounding compressor

it might even support 32fp in ffdshow, worth a try(lower the volume of your amp, just in case it doesn't ^^)