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Old 24th February 2008, 01:33   #41  |  Link
laserfan
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OK here are the images again; this first is using VAQ:



The next one is w/AQ unchecked; it looks washed-out. Sorry for getting this wrong the first time!



I will report again later after I've had a chance to look at these on my media player/10' wide screen!
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Old 24th February 2008, 03:42   #42  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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That's because you opened both at once in two separate media players, but since only one could use the overlay renderer, the other didn't get the proper TV->PC brightness level conversions.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Xvid or AQ.
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Old 24th February 2008, 04:53   #43  |  Link
laserfan
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Oh my; that would never have occurred to me. I haven't looked at the vids outside of Media Player Classic yet, but I have no doubt you are correct about this, because indeed, in order to make certain I selected the same frame for comparison/screenshot, I opened two incidences of MPC!

Sorry for the bandwidth!

:veryembarrassed:

I guess at least I can take some solace re: how my original post was "wrong"--I simply opened in a different sequence each time.

Last edited by laserfan; 24th February 2008 at 04:57.
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Old 27th February 2008, 11:23   #44  |  Link
20-40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
check off the Adaptive Quantization box
I feel stupid, because I cannot see any changes neither in file sizes or quality.
Because I've never grasped concept of some people's ON and OFF, be so kind and tell me what "check off" in your sentence means. Marked box or not? You know... is it yes... or not...
UN-checked or checked as un-marked and - marked.
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Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Have fun!
Later, for sure.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by 20-40; 27th February 2008 at 11:29.
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Old 27th February 2008, 12:19   #45  |  Link
Brother John
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For VfW: Enable “Adaptive Quantization”
For Encraw: Add -lumimasking to CLI
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Brother John

When lost in BeSweet's options, have a look at the Commandline Reference.
DVD nach MPEG-4 klappt nicht? Verzweifelt? Auf zum Encodingwissen!
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Old 27th February 2008, 13:24   #46  |  Link
20-40
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So... in this case OFF means ON - as YES, as "marked", as checked.
Thanks brother, it's nice to see that off means yes.
OK, "radio" box of “Adaptive Quantization” stays enabled, as always.
Encraw will chew later on.

"Saying: Go to this people, and say to them: With the ear you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive."

Last edited by 20-40; 27th February 2008 at 13:57.
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Old 27th February 2008, 22:32   #47  |  Link
Ranguvar
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Cool saying
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Old 28th February 2008, 01:51   #48  |  Link
Sharktooth
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already heard that saying... it's religion related...
however, i think VAQ can be more effective with quantization matrices like 6of9 and similar purpouse matrices...
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Old 28th February 2008, 10:18   #49  |  Link
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Maybe it is, Sharky, I've added this saying as absolutely relevant to my previous post - namely - and if you can pass personal "connotations" in it - it IS about UNDERSTANDING and PERCEPTION, two most valid things in this matter.
Next time, look without filtering, it was uncalled for, sayings as this one have been part of our civilization log before we were born. So respected man and Doom's forum member, as you are, don't need someone as me to tell you that.
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Old 19th March 2008, 07:24   #50  |  Link
Gromozeka
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dark Shikari you is hero!
Thank you very much/ i'm testing your VAQ - its perfect
XviD forever! You can continue this proekt?
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Old 19th March 2008, 07:50   #51  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromozeka View Post
dark Shikari you is hero!
Thank you very much/ i'm testing your VAQ - its perfect
XviD forever! You can continue this proekt?
Well I don't care much about Xvid, so... perhaps if someone else feels like looking at it, or advising me on a bit more about Xvid's internals with regards to dquant
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Old 22nd March 2008, 04:30   #52  |  Link
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The only possible way of improving VAQ, at least IMHO, would be to implement a sort of rough detection of text, so advanced subtitles could look better. Probably some weighting that if the possible text is near the bottom of the video, it is more likely to be text.

To me, especially with stylized anime subtitles, clean subs are very important.

Minor, and will most likely be shot down, but I'll throw it out there just in case.
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Old 22nd March 2008, 04:34   #53  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranguvar View Post
The only possible way of improving VAQ, at least IMHO, would be to implement a sort of rough detection of text, so advanced subtitles could look better. Probably some weighting that if the possible text is near the bottom of the video, it is more likely to be text.

To me, especially with stylized anime subtitles, clean subs are very important.

Minor, and will most likely be shot down, but I'll throw it out there just in case.
I have an improvement of VAQ in the works... it may improve ringing on edges while keeping most of the benefit now

Of course, if you want clean subs, just use softsubs, seriously
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Old 22nd March 2008, 17:00   #54  |  Link
Gromozeka
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Dark shikari
Speak that will be new AQ - 2.0?
It's true?
But XviD will be have AQ 2.0?

Last edited by Gromozeka; 22nd March 2008 at 20:12.
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Old 23rd March 2008, 01:11   #55  |  Link
plugh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Xvid has really really nasty restrictions on quantizers. From what I recall:

1. A "DQuant" block is a block that has a different quantizer from the previous block. In the case of VAQ, this would be an edge block, for example.

2. DQuant blocks cannot have a difference of more than +/- QP from the frame QP (I think).

3. DQuant blocks cannot use 4mv. (WTF? Why?)

4. DQuant blocks cannot use GMC. (WTF? Why?)
Over in the HVS plugin thread, similar comments were made about AQ
Quote:
Disadvantages

needs bitrate (2 bits per block)

limits modes for motion estimation

the quantizers of neighbouring blocks may only differ by two

works not woth B-frames
Is there a definitive reference on the above?

Point three in particular, since 4MV is on by default for basically all the profiles. Which takes precedence? Is a block coded with MODE_INTER4V precluded from dquant? Or does dquant force interv4 off?

I scanned through the code looking for both elements 'together', and find stuff like:
encoder.c/MBSetDquant
Code:
			if (next->mode != MODE_INTER4V && next->mode != MODE_NOT_CODED)
				/* mode allows dquant change in the future */
				if (abs(next->quant - prev->quant) <= 2) {
					/* quant change is not out of range */
estimation_pvop.c/ModeDecision_SAD and SearchP
estimation_rd_based.c/xvid_me_ModeDecision_RD
Code:
	int inter4v = (VopFlags & XVID_VOP_INTER4V) && (pMB->dquant == 0);
It sort of looks like AQ inhibits 4MV - on sort of a block by block basis? (excluding b-frames of course, which AQ doesn't apply to?)
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Old 23rd March 2008, 01:27   #56  |  Link
Dark Shikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plugh View Post
It sort of looks like AQ inhibits 4MV - on sort of a block by block basis? (excluding b-frames of course, which AQ doesn't apply to?)
Yes, since a dquant block cannot have 4MV.
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Old 24th March 2008, 22:49   #57  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
I have an improvement of VAQ in the works... it may improve ringing on edges while keeping most of the benefit now

Of course, if you want clean subs, just use softsubs, seriously
Awesome! As for the softsubs comment, pretty much the only reason I use Xvid nowadays is for hardware players... and those tend not to have soft-sub support. When I do make backups of stuff for PC viewing, it's x264 MKV with ASS softsubs
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Old 26th March 2008, 13:06   #58  |  Link
plugh
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a bit of a tangent, but did anything ever come of this?

New lumimasking code from ReferenceDivX
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Old 28th March 2008, 09:20   #59  |  Link
ToS_Maverick
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out of interest: are you able in MPEG4 ASP to change the quant. matrix on a frame/gop basis like in MPEG2?

if so, you could lower the matrix in cricital areas with VAQ.
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Old 28th March 2008, 13:03   #60  |  Link
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Technically no but it is possible with avi and the xvid decoder (not sure about divx) will handle it ok.
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