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Old 4th January 2016, 19:55   #34981  |  Link
bran
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Try resetting madVR to default settings. Are you using DXVA copyback decoding? Try disabling everything DXVA in the madVR settings. If you can't get it to work, enable the OSD (Ctrl+j) and post a screenshot with the OSD on.
I was using DXVA copyback, yes. However I had tried just software as well. Resetting the settings with the .bat-file now renders the video in windowed mode. But going fullscreen just gives audio playing with a black screen, no OSD or nothing. I've disabled what I could find regarding DXVA.



Changing to 10-bit for the monitor in madVR didn't help either.

EDIT: Changing to DX11 is now rendering the video in FS as well.

EDIT2: !!! Enabling "Activate SuperRes Filter" is what is yielding the sepia image. !!!
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Old 4th January 2016, 21:30   #34982  |  Link
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Which would be more preferable and why (SD -> 1080p upscale):
- Double luma at NNEDI3 256 (no quadrupling)
or
- Use luma quadrupling at NNEDI3 32 and doubling at however high you can go with NNEDI3 (which would be significantly less than the 256 above, of course)

Assuming in both cases the resulting resource expenditure is about equal, that is, near the absolute max available.

Last edited by Uoppi; 4th January 2016 at 21:33.
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Old 4th January 2016, 21:55   #34983  |  Link
aufkrawall
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Quadrupling doesn't make much sense in this situation since 576p or 480p doubled is already more than 1080p or almost as much.
Instead of using that many neurons, I'd suggest SuperRes. NNEDI3 is mostly very artifact free, but it can look a bit artificial. SuperRes can help a lot against this.
e.g. try NNEDI3 64 doubling with SuperRes strength 2 or 3. You can also put a little of sharpen edges, enhance detail or Adpative Sharpen on top of that.
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Old 5th January 2016, 01:37   #34984  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Quadrupling doesn't make much sense in this situation since 576p or 480p doubled is already more than 1080p or almost as much.
Instead of using that many neurons, I'd suggest SuperRes. NNEDI3 is mostly very artifact free, but it can look a bit artificial. SuperRes can help a lot against this.
e.g. try NNEDI3 64 doubling with SuperRes strength 2 or 3. You can also put a little of sharpen edges, enhance detail or Adpative Sharpen on top of that.
Hmm, you're right. Maybe I thought of quadrupling because horizontally 720 -> 1920 is almost a 3x upscale. Still, a waste of resources though.

So for SD -> 1080p upscale the "correct" way is to use doubling with the setting "only when scaling factor is 1.5 or more"? I think for 720p I've got it set at "always when needed".

I use SuperRes (at 1 or 2) with NNEDI3 (32 and more) for all upscales. And I don't usually want any further sharpening (even the sharpness setting on my tv is at 0).

Last edited by Uoppi; 5th January 2016 at 01:43.
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Old 5th January 2016, 02:10   #34985  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
Hmm, you're right. Maybe I thought of quadrupling because horizontally 720 -> 1920 is almost a 3x upscale. Still, a waste of resources though.
Yeah, I forgot that there can be many differences in horizontal resolutions.
I'd use super-xbr for quadrupling after NNEDI3 doubling in such situations then. Someone claimed here that it would look pixelated compared to pure NNEDI3 quadrupling, but I'm not aware of any proof for that. With my tests, I could hardly distinguish NNEDI3 64 doubling + super-xbr 75 quadrupling vs. NNEDI3 64 doubling + NNEDI3 64 quadrupling. SuperRes also reduces the remaining differences.
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Old 5th January 2016, 02:30   #34986  |  Link
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I get dropped frames playing NTSC SD video (http://mir.cr/0JGNT9O8) on 30 Hz and no dropped frames playing it on 60 Hz. Also, I get dropped frames playing PAL SD video (http://mir.cr/0TO7HKQ7) on 24 Hz (with ReClock) and no dropped frames playing it on 50 Hz (and no such issue when playing NTSC HD video on 24 Hz).
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Old 5th January 2016, 03:54   #34987  |  Link
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without OSD screenshots it's hard to judge.

but the NTSC SD file is 60 HZ and should be watched at that.
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Old 5th January 2016, 18:08   #34988  |  Link
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Not entirely related to madVR, but wanted to share that the "UHD Premium" announcement might end up bringing order into the chaos that HDR currently is. Hopefully.
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Old 5th January 2016, 18:55   #34989  |  Link
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Originally Posted by e-t172 View Post
Not entirely related to madVR, but wanted to share that the "UHD Premium" announcement might end up bringing order into the chaos that HDR currently is. Hopefully.
Unfortunately it still doesn't seem to specify how to actually process the HDR data, so experience between TV sets may differ.
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Old 5th January 2016, 20:10   #34990  |  Link
Uoppi
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Originally Posted by aufkrawall View Post
Yeah, I forgot that there can be many differences in horizontal resolutions.
I'd use super-xbr for quadrupling after NNEDI3 doubling in such situations then. Someone claimed here that it would look pixelated compared to pure NNEDI3 quadrupling, but I'm not aware of any proof for that. With my tests, I could hardly distinguish NNEDI3 64 doubling + super-xbr 75 quadrupling vs. NNEDI3 64 doubling + NNEDI3 64 quadrupling. SuperRes also reduces the remaining differences.
I actually tried NNEDI3 doubling + Super-XBR quadrupling at one point and it looked fine but I remember I opted to "go all out" with NNEDI3 doubling instead (128 or 256).

So from what I can gather, it would indeed be a good strategy to use a moderate NNEDI3 count for doubling + Super-XBR for quadrupling (to kick in for higher upscales) INSTEAD of allocating all available resources towards maxing NNEDI3 doubling? I mean, I'm having a hard time spotting differences between 64 vs. 256 neurons anyway unless zooming up close.
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Old 5th January 2016, 21:15   #34991  |  Link
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a question regarding range conversion. what is the recommendation here for a TV, set the graphic card to 0-255 and then let madVR do the conversion to 16-235? someone I know who has a Panasonic plasma TV says that when he does so, forcing the nvidia driver to output 0-255, and then setting 16-235 in madVR will leave whiter than whites (236-255) pass through and make 235, which is supposed to be white, darker. According to him the only way to get proper output with nvidia is to set the gpu to 16-235 and madvr to 0-255.

he made some pictures using the AVSHD calibration disc:

madvr 16-235, GPU 0-255: http://someimage.com/TIY4nz2

madvr 0-255, GPU 16-235: http://someimage.com/uy1kWWj
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Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 5th January 2016 at 21:19.
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Old 5th January 2016, 21:30   #34992  |  Link
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depends on the screen setting.
madvr 16-235, GPU 0-255 and madvr 0-255, GPU 16-235 should result in the same output type (limited) which should look the same.

so either the TV settings are changed or the screen act strange with a full range signal which doesn't make a lot of sense.

or in "short" this should count:
Quote:
There are 3 possible HTPC level configurations, when using madVR:

(1) Display wants 0-255. GPU and madVR are consequently also both set to 0-255.

This is the most recommended setup because it doesn't (shouldn't) have any banding problems, and still has all video, desktop and games with correct black/white levels. In this case test patterns need to have black at 0,0,0, obviously.

(2) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 16-235. madVR has to be set to 0-255.

This is not recommended, because the GPU stretches the madVR output, probably in 8bit without dithering, so banding could be introduced. However, this is not a big problem for ArgyllCMS. Argyll still needs to create test patterns with black at 0,0,0. The GPU will then stretch the test patterns from 0-255 to 16-235, so the display will get 16,16,16, although Argyll rendered 0,0,0. So the levels are correct.

(3) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 0-255. madVR is set to 16-235.

This is the recommended setup for best image quality if your display can't do 0-255. This setup results in banding-free madVR image quality. However, levels for desktop and games will be incorrect, because desktop and games will render black at 0,0,0, while the display expects black at 16,16,16. This is a problem for ArgyllCMS, because Argyll will create test patterns with black at 0,0,0, and the display will also receive these at 0,0,0. So basically Argyll test patterns will have wrong levels, which will screw up the whole calibration.

It is my understanding that Graeme implemented the -E switch specifically for (3), because without the -E switch Argyll test patterns would send wrong levels to the display. Basically the -E switch tells Argyll to render test patterns with black at 16,16,16 and white at 235,235,235, which Argyll never had to do before. When using VMR/EVR, you usually switch your GPU to 0-255 or 16-235. In both cases Argyll can render test patterns with black at 0,0,0, and they will still be sent to the display with the correct levels. However, due to my recommendation to use (3) if your display doesn't support 0-255, Argyll suddenly needs to render test patterns differently. Hence Graeme implemented the -E switch.

So my understanding is that -E should be used only for (3) and in no other situation. If you use the -E switch for (1), Argyll will create test patterns with black at 16,16,16 which would be incorrect!
source: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-di...l#post23274961
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Old 5th January 2016, 21:31   #34993  |  Link
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Nvidia GPUs and drivers are able to properly output a full range [0-255] signal, it's Panasonic plasmas that used to not accept full range signals. I know this first hand, I had a Panasonic plasma myself. More recent models might no longer have this issue though.

So what your friend does is the right thing to do for him. He has to set his output to [16-235] in the GPU because his TV set would ignore the [0-16] and [235-255] range of values were he to send a full range signal [0-255]. This is option (2) in the quote from huhn's post. I do not agree that option (3) in huhn's quoted post is preferable to (2) for two reasons: one is that we don't use TVs to see movies only, but we also want the desktop, images, games and everything else to be displayed properly - and this is not what happens with option (3); and second, because from my experience the [0-255] signal is not properly interpreted by a TV which only expects [16-235] - the gamma or something else is not right, the image in movies does not look quite the same as when you use option (2).


If you have a TV that accepts a full range signal, the best thing to do is to output full range from the GPU [0-255] and configure madVR to do the conversion from 16-235 to [0-255] as intended - that's exactly option (1) from the post quoted above. You need to look into the controls of your TV set to enable it to accept a full range signal though. How to do this varies from brand to brand and model to model. It may involve setting the input as a PC input, or activating some mode (like "Game"), or toggling some "black level" option. On my Sony TV, everything is properly working out of the box with its auto setting, the TV properly recognizes when the GPU sends limited range or full range signals. But if I were to force full range for an input, what I would have to do would be to set Display -> Video Input Settings -> HDMI Dynamic Range to "Full" for that HDMI port.

In the past some TVs were not being able to accept a full range signal at all.

Last edited by KoD; 5th January 2016 at 22:05. Reason: made the link between what I said and the quote in huhn's post
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Old 5th January 2016, 22:10   #34994  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
Unfortunately it still doesn't seem to specify how to actually process the HDR data, so experience between TV sets may differ.
This is just the press release, signatories of the UHD Alliance have access to the full specs.
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Old 5th January 2016, 22:12   #34995  |  Link
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madvr 16-235, GPU 0-255 and madvr 0-255, GPU 16-235 should result in the same output type (limited) which should look the same
but they arent as you can see in the pictures. his TV only accepts 16-235 via HMDI.
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Old 5th January 2016, 22:52   #34996  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt8 View Post
a question regarding range conversion. what is the recommendation here for a TV, set the graphic card to 0-255 and then let madVR do the conversion to 16-235? someone I know who has a Panasonic plasma TV says that when he does so, forcing the nvidia driver to output 0-255, and then setting 16-235 in madVR will leave whiter than whites (236-255) pass through and make 235, which is supposed to be white, darker. According to him the only way to get proper output with nvidia is to set the gpu to 16-235 and madvr to 0-255.

he made some pictures using the AVSHD calibration disc:

madvr 16-235, GPU 0-255: http://someimage.com/TIY4nz2

madvr 0-255, GPU 16-235: http://someimage.com/uy1kWWj
This problem does not just affect Panasonic plasmas. I have a Samsung and see the same problem. In fact, its always been like this with all tvs I have used with madVR (Samsung, Panasonic and Philips). Its been an issue since forever and was brought up by someone years back.

I have tv set to accept full RGB, NVidia driver to send full range RGB and madVR to send limited range (16-235)... In this setup whiter than white is sent (236-255) but blacker than black is not (0-16). If you however change madVR color range to custom and then select the range (16-255) madVR will then loose the whiter than white and the color range will be correct between 16-235 with the avshd tests. Its not logical but it works.

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Old 5th January 2016, 23:18   #34997  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
I have tv set to accept full RGB, NVidia driver to send full range RGB and madVR to send limited range (16-235)... In this setup whiter than white is sent (236-255) but blacker than black is not (0-16). If you however change madVR color range to custom and then select the range (16-255) madVR will then loose the whiter than white and the color range will be correct between 16-235 with the avshd tests. Its not logical but it works.
If you set madvr to sending 16-235 and GPU driver to sending 0-255 then you will be sending 16-235 (16 reference black and 235 reference white, plus BTB&WTW). So your TV have to be set to accept 16-235. Desktop will be wrong levels.
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Old 6th January 2016, 00:42   #34998  |  Link
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Using latest versions of madVR 89.19 and Emby for WMC (Windows 7 Professional). With MPC-HC 1.7.10 after refresh rate switching by madVR (windowed overlay mode) then video hangs and does not play. Video will play after closing then re-starting MPC.

Refresh rate switching when using MPC-HC 1.7.9 works with video playing fine after refresh rate switching.

Has anyone else seen this, better still have a solution for it? I have also posted this in the MPC-HC forum as I suspect it is more of an issue with the latest version of MPC-HC than madVR.
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Old 6th January 2016, 01:47   #34999  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Uoppi View Post
I actually tried NNEDI3 doubling + Super-XBR quadrupling at one point and it looked fine but I remember I opted to "go all out" with NNEDI3 doubling instead (128 or 256).

So from what I can gather, it would indeed be a good strategy to use a moderate NNEDI3 count for doubling + Super-XBR for quadrupling (to kick in for higher upscales) INSTEAD of allocating all available resources towards maxing NNEDI3 doubling? I mean, I'm having a hard time spotting differences between 64 vs. 256 neurons anyway unless zooming up close.
I thought you were upscaling DVDs? This would be a 2x to 2.25x resize, no?
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Old 6th January 2016, 03:58   #35000  |  Link
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same RGB range question for my old AMD laptop. in the video settings under colour there is the setting dynamic range. the options here are full, limited or leave this option unticked. unticked appears to be the same as full though. not sure if theres really a difference here. I unticked all video & quality options in the AMD settings just to be sure drivers dont mess with the content. so should I leave the dynamic range option as well unticked or set it to full?

madvr: is currently set to display expects PC levels (default).

with my panasonic plasma (VT60) I can choose HDMI range normal (default setting) or full. when I set it to full though then black becomes gray. but according to "(1) Display wants 0-255. GPU and madVR are consequently also both set to 0-255." setting it to full range should be right, shouldnt it?

another thing: with my TV theres also an option called HDMI content type from which I can choose Auto (default), graphics, foto or off. which is the recommended setting here when watching movies? auto, graphic and foto look all the same, that setting is a little bit brighter than off.


edit: I need to double check if I really read the RGB level values for my TV in madVR or my laptop screen, not sure any more. will do tomorrow.
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Last edited by Thunderbolt8; 6th January 2016 at 04:01.
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