Welcome to Doom9's Forum, THE in-place to be for everyone interested in DVD conversion.

Before you start posting please read the forum rules. By posting to this forum you agree to abide by the rules.

 

Go Back   Doom9's Forum > Video Encoding > MPEG-4 AVC / H.264

View Poll Results: Which one is better ?
[SD] H.264 42 84.00%
[SD] XviD 0 0%
[SD] DivX 1 2.00%
[HD] H.264 43 86.00%
[HD] DivX 1 2.00%
Other ??? 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 22nd October 2008, 19:35   #1  |  Link
P.J
Δ
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 535
[HELP] H.264 or XviD or DivX @ Low Bitrate ?

Which one is better for HD/SD resolution @ low bitrate ?
I think XviD doesn't support HD and WVC1/MPEG-2 doesn't provide good quality @ low bitrate xD

Thanks !
P.J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 19:43   #2  |  Link
Blue_MiSfit
Derek Prestegard IRL
 
Blue_MiSfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 5,988
Define low bitrate

x264 will be better in all cases at any given bitrate - most likely..

~MISfit
__________________
These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)
Blue_MiSfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 19:45   #3  |  Link
LoRd_MuldeR
Software Developer
 
LoRd_MuldeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Last House on Slunk Street
Posts: 13,248
I'm not aware of any HD limitations in Xvid. I got a 3840x2160 video encoded by Xvid here

However H.264 (x264) compresses more efficient than MEPG-4 ASP (Xvid). Especially at HD resolutions. And especially at low bitrates.
So I'd definitely go with x264. At a given bitrate x264 will certainly produce better quality than Xvid (except for overkill bitrates where both look transparent).
The only reason to use Xvid nowadays is compatibility to standalone devices that can't play H.264 video yet...
__________________
Go to https://standforukraine.com/ to find legitimate Ukrainian Charities 🇺🇦✊

Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 22nd October 2008 at 19:49.
LoRd_MuldeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:13   #4  |  Link
Sagekilla
x264aholic
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,752
Overall H.264 is vastly more efficient than XviD or DivX, especially when you're dealing with relatively low bitrates. At the high end of the spectrum differences even out, but H.264 still comes out as being slightly better.

In short, go with x264 if you need to work with low bitrates at good quality. AVC > ASP
__________________
You can't call your encoding speed slow until you start measuring in seconds per frame.
Sagekilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:23   #5  |  Link
P.J
Δ
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 535
=> H.264 FTW !

Can you compare H.264 with WMV/WVC1/VC1 and MPEG-2 @ Medium/High bitrare for both HD/SD resolution ?
P.J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:27   #6  |  Link
Dark Shikari
x264 developer
 
Dark Shikari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J View Post
=> H.264 FTW !

Can you compare H.264 with WMV/WVC1/VC1 and MPEG-2 @ Medium/High bitrare for both HD/SD resolution ?
Sure. Note that test is a bit old; x264 has gotten quite a bit better since (it was before the finalization of psy-rd, psy-trellis, and b-adapt 2).
Dark Shikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:28   #7  |  Link
Sagekilla
x264aholic
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,752
Here: http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/website/compare.html

We have cake too
__________________
You can't call your encoding speed slow until you start measuring in seconds per frame.
Sagekilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:29   #8  |  Link
LoRd_MuldeR
Software Developer
 
LoRd_MuldeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Last House on Slunk Street
Posts: 13,248
Very roughly MPEG-2 requires ~25 MBit/s to produce decent quality for 1080p HD content, while H.264 requires only ~8 MBit/s.

Of course this may vary significantly from source to source...
__________________
Go to https://standforukraine.com/ to find legitimate Ukrainian Charities 🇺🇦✊
LoRd_MuldeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:51   #9  |  Link
P.J
Δ
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 535
Can you tell me which one is better ?
I don't want to download xD

[HD] Medium Bitrate: ?
[HD] High Bitrate: ?
[SD] Medium Bitrate: ?
[SD] High Bitrate: ?

Thanks very much !
P.J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:53   #10  |  Link
LoRd_MuldeR
Software Developer
 
LoRd_MuldeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Last House on Slunk Street
Posts: 13,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J View Post
Can you tell me which one is better ?
I don't want to download xD

[HD] Medium Bitrate: ?
[HD] High Bitrate: ?
[SD] Medium Bitrate: ?
[SD] High Bitrate: ?

Thanks very much !
Download what and from what source?

And of course HD + High Bitrate will give best quality
__________________
Go to https://standforukraine.com/ to find legitimate Ukrainian Charities 🇺🇦✊
LoRd_MuldeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 21:59   #11  |  Link
Sagekilla
x264aholic
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,752
If your source is a Blu-ray, go with 720p at a medium (~2-6 mbps) bitrate. Otherwise, if it's DVD leave it at SD resolutions and encode at 0.8-3 mbps. All these values vary with respect to source complexity and quality.
__________________
You can't call your encoding speed slow until you start measuring in seconds per frame.
Sagekilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 22:44   #12  |  Link
lexor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 849
Still, asking what's better x264 or something else, in x264 forum... seems pointless.
__________________
Geforce GTX 260
Windows 7, 64bit, Core i7
MPC-HC, Foobar2000
lexor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 22:49   #13  |  Link
LoRd_MuldeR
Software Developer
 
LoRd_MuldeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Last House on Slunk Street
Posts: 13,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by lexor View Post
Still, asking what's better x264 or something else, in x264 forum... seems pointless.
Since when is Doom9 a x264 forum? Even the "MPEG-4 AVC" sub-forum is dedicated to H.264 in general, not only x264.

And most important: The OP asked whether Xvid (MPEG-4 ASP) or H.264 is to be preferred quality-wise at a given bitrate.
The answer clearly is H.264. This fact doesn't change, no matter on what forum it is asked/answered...
__________________
Go to https://standforukraine.com/ to find legitimate Ukrainian Charities 🇺🇦✊
LoRd_MuldeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 22:56   #14  |  Link
P.J
Δ
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 535
@LoRd_MuldeR: http://mirror05.x264.nl/Dark/website/compare.html
@lexor: NO! xD

For HD720/1080: [H.264/(W)VC1/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~6Mbps
Medium Bitrate: +12Mbps
High Bitrate: +24Mbps

For SD: [H.264/WMV/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~3Mbps
Medium Bitrate: ~6Mbps
High Bitrate: ~9Mbps

*EDITED*

Last edited by P.J; 22nd October 2008 at 23:01.
P.J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 23:01   #15  |  Link
LoRd_MuldeR
Software Developer
 
LoRd_MuldeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Last House on Slunk Street
Posts: 13,248
H.264 at 12 MBit/s should deliver excellent quality for HD content. H.264 at 24 MBit/s usually is overkill, even for 1080p material...

Just look at this 8 MBit/s 1080p H.264 sample:
http://files.x264.nl/force.php?file=...0.48.8mbit.mkv

(Looks excellent - and it was encoded with a pretty old version of x264)
__________________
Go to https://standforukraine.com/ to find legitimate Ukrainian Charities 🇺🇦✊

Last edited by LoRd_MuldeR; 22nd October 2008 at 23:11.
LoRd_MuldeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 23:02   #16  |  Link
Dark Shikari
x264 developer
 
Dark Shikari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J View Post
For HD720/1080: [H.264/(W)VC1/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~6Mbps
Medium Bitrate: +12Mbps
High Bitrate: +24Mbps

For SD: [H.264/WMV/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~3Mbps
Medium Bitrate: ~6Mbps
High Bitrate: ~9Mbps
You kidding me? 9 megabit H.264 for SD?

You can't just lump H.264 and WMV and MPEG-2 together like that either

Nor can you lump together 720p and 1080p, since the latter needs roughly twice the bitrate of the former...
Dark Shikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 23:16   #17  |  Link
P.J
Δ
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
You kidding me? 9 megabit H.264 for SD?

You can't just lump H.264 and WMV and MPEG-2 together like that either
MPEG-2 needs to 9Mbps bitrate -> DVD
I think MPEG-2/VC1 will perform better in high bitrate because of their low compression method xD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Shikari View Post
Nor can you lump together 720p and 1080p, since the latter needs roughly twice the bitrate of the former...
?

For HD720: [H.264/(W)VC1/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~6Mbps
Medium Bitrate: +12Mbps
High Bitrate: +24Mbps

For HD1080: [H.264/(W)VC1/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~6Mbps
Medium Bitrate: +12Mbps
High Bitrate: +24Mbps

For SD: [H.264/WMV/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~3Mbps
Medium Bitrate: ~6Mbps
High Bitrate: ~9Mbps

P.J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 23:20   #18  |  Link
wyti
Insane Encoder
 
wyti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lausanne (Switzerland)
Posts: 142
I don't know well the 2 others formats but for H264 (x264) it will be something like this

[1080p]
Low bitrate : 6 Mbps
Medium bitrate : 8Mbps
High bitrate : 12+Mbps

[720p]
Low bitrate : 2 Mbps
Medium bitrate : 4Mbps
High bitrate : 6+Mbps

[SD (DvD)]
Low bitrate : less than 1 Mbps
Medium bitrate : 1.5Mbps
High bitrate : 2.5+Mbps
__________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.
wyti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2008, 23:24   #19  |  Link
Dark Shikari
x264 developer
 
Dark Shikari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J View Post
For HD720: [H.264/(W)VC1/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~6Mbps
Medium Bitrate: +12Mbps
High Bitrate: +24Mbps

For HD1080: [H.264/(W)VC1/MPEG-2]
Low Bitrate: ~6Mbps
Medium Bitrate: +12Mbps
High Bitrate: +24Mbps
So you're saying, despite 1080p being twice the resolution of 720p, it doesn't need a higher bitrate for the same quality?
Dark Shikari is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2008, 00:09   #20  |  Link
Sagekilla
x264aholic
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,752
Even at 720p, you can coax some very good quality out of video at something like 2 mbps, I've done it before
__________________
You can't call your encoding speed slow until you start measuring in seconds per frame.
Sagekilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.