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Old 9th February 2017, 12:11   #14121  |  Link
tebasuna51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico8583 View Post
... I'm going to try a method to convert and add an audio track to my MKV, perhaps I'll make a soft to do that...
You can try my GUI UsEac3to (read the readme.txt):

1) Extract the UsEac3to.7z in eac3to folder
2) Run UsEac3to.exe and inform 'Settings' -> 'Path to MkvMerge'
3) Load your mkv
4) In 'Track Input -> Output format' extract and/or convert the 2 audio than you want preserve.
5) 'Run and MkvMux' mux your original mkv without audios with the extracted/converted audios
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Last edited by tebasuna51; 9th February 2017 at 12:14.
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Old 9th February 2017, 13:35   #14122  |  Link
Nico8583
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Thank you for the tip, I'll try it but I would like to process about 1000 movies so I would like to make an automated process

For downmixing to stereo, there is no interest to use Normalize ? I would like to have a correct sound level without putting my TV level to 90%
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Old 9th February 2017, 15:54   #14123  |  Link
tebasuna51
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With -downStereo eac3to add center and surround channels to front channels, most the times the volume reach more than 0 dB and eac3to make a automatic Normalize to obtain peaks at 0 dB only.

You can force the Normalize but normally is not necesary, and don't solve the low dialog volume because this only can be corrected with a specific downmix for each movie.
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Old 9th February 2017, 23:21   #14124  |  Link
Nico8583
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I've tried manually to convert to AAC and mux to MKV. MediaInfo shows a 9ms delay for each AAC track, is it normal ?
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Old 9th February 2017, 23:26   #14125  |  Link
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Did you use eac3to to create the .m4a and mkvmerge to mux it? Then: yes, it's probably normal. Mkvmerge compensates for the aac encoder delay.
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Old 9th February 2017, 23:32   #14126  |  Link
Nico8583
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Yes I convert to .m4a with eac3to 3.31 and mux with mkvmerge 9.8.0. Why does the encoder add delay ?
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Old 9th February 2017, 23:37   #14127  |  Link
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https://developer.apple.com/library/...TFFAppenG.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifi...sine_transform
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Old 10th February 2017, 08:14   #14128  |  Link
Nico8583
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Thank you, I'll look at it
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Old 10th February 2017, 13:50   #14129  |  Link
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When a program reads the EAC3To output I'd like a sure way to match the track info to the output of other programs (MediaInfo/MKVMerge). Outputting the PIDs and Matroska Track Numbers would be the surest way of achieving that.

(Sorry, I had noticed there was no "feature request option" on the tracker and was going to post here instead, but I looked through the tickets and one of them was a request to use pre-encoded AC-3 to mux with TrueHD instead of making a new one, which is a feature request and was labeled a feature request and a bug as well.)
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Old 11th February 2017, 16:01   #14130  |  Link
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I've tried this command line "eac3to.exe Movie.mkv 1:Audio.m4a -downStereo" but the sound level is low. Is it possible to increase it ? Is it done by applying DRC (with NicAc3Source/NicDtssource) ?
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Old 11th February 2017, 16:40   #14131  |  Link
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eac3to does not use AviSynth audio source plugins.

Whether DRC can be applied, may depend on the format of the audio stream in the MKV. 2-pass normalization would always be possible during a complete conversion, but I don't know for sure if eac3to uses a 2-pass method. Probably not.
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Old 11th February 2017, 17:04   #14132  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico8583 View Post
... but the sound level is low
The whole volume or the dialog volume?
Please put the log.

eac3to never apply DRC when decode.
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Old 12th February 2017, 00:43   #14133  |  Link
Nico8583
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It seems to be the whole volume but mainly dialog volume.
Here is the log :
Quote:
eac3to v3.31
command line: "D:\eac3to\eac3to.exe" "D:\Test\Test.mkv" 2:"D:\Test\Test.mkv_0.50.m4a" -downStereo
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MKV, 1 video track, 1 audio track, 1:46:34, 24p /1.001
1: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001
2: AC3 EX, French, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48kHz, dialnorm: -27dB
[a02] Extracting audio track number 2...
[a02] Removing AC3 dialog normalization...
[a02] Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
[a02] Downmixing multi channel audio to stereo...
[a02] Reducing depth from 64 to 32 bits...
[a02] Encoding AAC <0.50> with NeroAacEnc...
[a02] Clipping detected, a 2nd pass will be necessary. <WARNING>
[a02] Starting 2nd pass...
[a02] Extracting audio track number 2...
[a02] Removing AC3 dialog normalization...
[a02] Decoding with libav/ffmpeg...
[a02] Downmixing multi channel audio to stereo...
[a02] Reducing depth from 64 to 32 bits...
[a02] Encoding AAC <0.50> with NeroAacEnc...
[a02] Applying -2.24dB gain...
Video track 1 contains 153312 frames.
eac3to processing took 6 minutes, 34 seconds.
Done.
Thank you !
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Old 12th February 2017, 00:51   #14134  |  Link
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The whole volume can't be bigger because eac3to detect clip:

[a02] Clipping detected, a 2nd pass will be necessary. <WARNING>

and need attenuate it:

[a02] Applying -2.24dB gain...

Then your movie maybe need other tool to downmix that audio. Try BeHappy.
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Old 12th February 2017, 01:14   #14135  |  Link
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All tests I've done allways report "Clipping detected"...
Do you have some advices about BeHappy or NicAudio in order to downmix to stereo ?
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Old 12th February 2017, 06:53   #14136  |  Link
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How about this:
[a02] Removing AC3 dialog normalization...

Perhaps that step can be disabled? I haven't tried it.
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:40   #14137  |  Link
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You don't need to keep the dialog normalization, it's a flag which actually concerns the level of all channels, not only the center channel. This flag is often used on stereo contents on TV programs, which is rather a nonsense when you think it only concerns the center channel, but it has though something to do with dialogs (when well used) ;
http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_...on-6-2000.html




Last edited by Music Fan; 12th February 2017 at 11:19.
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Old 12th February 2017, 15:30   #14138  |  Link
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About Dialogue Normalization (DN) and Dynamic Range Compression (DRC)

(That was explained in the first posts in this thread)
Like you can see in the arcticle linked by Music Fan both concepts, used by Dolby Digital (DD) in their encodes, are very ussefull.
What is the problem?

1) Only DD uses them, other sources don't have, or don't use, similar concepts (DTS, MP3, CDA, AAC, ...).
Normally the same source, encoded with DD, sound at low volume than encoded with other encoder, when played.

2) DN and DRC must be applied at play time, the tools (like eac3to) designed to recode between formats, can't apply DN/DRC when decode DD if we don't want lose quality.
If you want preserve DN/DRC you need use a DD certified encoder.
Free AC3 encoders don't claim make DD certified streams, only AC3 streams and, by default, don't use DN/DRC.
Of course DN/DRC can't be translated to other encoders.

Modern players (more powerfull than olds) have "Night mode" to solve the same problem than DRC at play time, and work over any format, not only DD streams.

Downmix problems

We can't send the same sound volume with 2 speakers than with 6 speakers, that is obvious. The -downStereo parameter try to preserve the balance between channels adding 5 input channels to only 2 (FL'-FR') with this method:

FL' = FL + 0.707*FC + SL
FR' = FR + 0.707*FC + SR

Is normal than adding volume like that produce volume sounds over 0 dB (than produce clip), for that the WARNING and the posterior:
Applying -2.24dB gain...
To output the max volume peaks without distort.

But sometimes the FC (many of dialogs) contribution is not enough to listen clearly the dialogs compared with F and S contributions.

There are workarounds to solve this problem, but not with eac3to than try always preserve the best quality.

With BeHappy (or BeLight) you can apply DRC, at decoder time, over DD streams (not with other formats).
Also you can apply Boost (BeLight) or many other options with AviSynth (BeHappy).
But explain them are OT in this thread.
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Old 12th February 2017, 22:04   #14139  |  Link
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Thank you for all your informations, it's very interesting
Is it the same "issue" if I convert to AAC multichannel ? Or is it specific at the downstereo and not at the format ?
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Old 13th February 2017, 11:56   #14140  |  Link
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We don't need mix channels in a multichannel conversion, then don't exist the problem.
Each channel preserve their original volume.
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