madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[James Freeman]

Wowee!!!

Looks very good.
It's very useful for folks with 6bit+FRC (and lower) panels to be 100% sure they get perfect gamma curve that visually matches the original content.
One of the fellows here even uses 5-bit for their projector... this build is very useful for him.

EDIT:
I've done more testing,
LL definitely looks closer to the the original content gamma-wise.
4-bit is watchable now (amazing for only 16 shades of grey), whether on Gamma light it was not representing the original picture correctly.

Can you please include 2-bit and 1-bit, or is it extremely unnecessary?

[seiyafan]

So for 480 -> 1440, in terms of rendering time, doubling is faster because quadrupling involves another pass. But in terms of visual, which one is better? doubling and upscaling or quadrupling and downscaling?

[fairchild]

Originally Posted by seiyafan

So for 480 -> 1440, in terms of rendering time, doubling is faster because quadrupling involves another pass. But in terms of visual, which one is better? doubling and upscaling or quadrupling and downscaling?

It also matters what scaling factor you are using which determines when/if doubling/quad scaling kicks in. I use the following on my 7870 to my 1080p plasma:

chroma upscaling: lanczos 3 (AR), image upscaling: lanczos 3 (AR)
image doubling:
use NNEDI3 to double luma if scaling 2.0x 32 neurons
use NNEDI3 to quadruple luma if scaling 3.0x 16 neurons
image downscaling: camtull-rom (AR+LL)

Basically doubling only kicks in on 960x540 and below and quadrupling only kicks in on 640x360 and below.

[GREG1292]

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Wowee!!!

Looks very good.
It's very useful for folks with 6bit+FRC (and lower) panels to be 100% sure they get perfect gamma curve that visually matches the original content.
One of the fellows here even uses 5-bit for their projector... this build is very useful for him.

EDIT:
I've done more testing,
LL definitely looks closer to the the original content gamma-wise.
4-bit is watchable now (amazing for only 16 shades of grey), whether on Gamma light it was not representing the original picture correctly.

Can you please include 2-bit and 1-bit, or is it extremely unnecessary?

Can't wait to test. On vacation for 2 weeks so no testing for me

[Werewolfy]

Originally Posted by madshi

Hmmm... According to the log, my hooks are installed correctly, but they do are not called somehow. Weird. It seems you've configured madVR to switch the display mode in the moment when you go fullscreen? What happens if you switch at the start of playback? Does that change anything? Probably not, just wondering...

Unfortunately you're right, it doesn't change anything. I noticed that other users are on Windows 8.1, I'm on Windows 8. Maybe it comes from there but I don't really want to install 8.1, some video games are not compatible with it...

[MistahBonzai]

Originally Posted by huhn

if a calibrated screen is really important to you, you may should think about getting a colorimeter.

I have a good working knowledge of display calibration but have no tools other than a multitude of test files and a DIY color temperature adjustment aid (partitioned black box, grey card(s), 6500K light source..). bottom line is that I'm satisfied that my display gamma is ~2.25 - it varies slightly dependent on luminance.

the best gamma should be choice n on your lightning condition in your room. typical 2.4 is what you want.

I adjust as needed although I'm in a well controled environment (dark room, 6500K backlight, no external light source falling on the screen).

see above setting gamma in "calibration" should't have an effect without "color & gamma" settings.

In this case a picture is worth 1K words. Screen crop of my
calibration options. The color and gamma options are completely unselected.

[seiyafan]

I think I finally got it so I am going to answer my own question. For quadrupling the first pass uses the neurons number from doubling and the second pass uses the neurons number from quadrupling. I used to think both passes use neurons from quadrupling so that's why I asked that why would the number of doubling neurons even matter for quadrupling.

That's a mouthful but please correct me if I am wrong.

[cyberbeing]

Originally Posted by seiyafan

For quadrupling the first pass uses the neurons number from doubling and the second pass uses the neurons number from quadrupling.

This is correct.

[JonnyRedHed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyRedHed View Post
I'm still getting a black screen every now and again which all but freezes zoom player. No crash reporter pops up. Apart from this little issue all is good.

madshi asked:
What does the task manager say about ZoomPlayer's CPU RAM consumption when it's frozen like that?



From the 3 times I observed it this afternoon before downgrading to 87.4, cpu ram was 600mb, 800mb, 400mb. When the cpu ram was highest, zoomplayer's crash was worse and required task manger to end process. Otherwise with the lower spikes I could 'esc' back to windowed mode and then click the zoomplayer 'x' to close it after it settled its self down. The video appears to still continue playing, audio can still be heard. I can click the screen once it goes black and playback will pause as normal and then resume with another click. No madvr crash reporter pops up, nor does zplayer crash window. Just a screen that goes black during playback, apparently at random.

This black screen, and very occasional white screen has never happened before in all my years of using zoomplayer and madvr.

With 0.87.4 this does not occur.

[secvensor]

1600х1200@100MHz
Error Diffusion - option 2 enabled

no dropped frames on (windowed/full-screen mode):
MPEG1 640x480 30fps 104857kbps https://mega.co.nz/#!JF92jR6K!PlNXU3xJ01jO3D4cJBSFSn61aYl3zB-t3eZJdj9c0oo (the BEST test video)
MPEG4 (H264 8bit) 960x720 29.917fps 2561kbps
MPEG4 (H264 8bit) 1280x720 25fps 2698kbps
MPEG4 (H264 10bit) 1280x720 60fps 6582kbps

[MistahBonzai]

Originally Posted by secvensor

variant 9

Oh well..it most likely needed it anyway

You're not using Zoom Player per chance are you? That could explain how you were able to jack-up all the madVR settings and still thought they were being utilized... I was able to playback '4K' files without tweaking settings (didn't even have to set the primaries/gamut in madVR (DCI-P3). Zoom player seems to have a means of dynamically shifting playback filtering when overloaded. It's automagical Of course you have no idea what settings are really in play

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

For those of you guys who already have signs of withdrawal from the lack of dither testing

I guess I'd very much fancy the impression of depth of A4 with the low-noise of ED11.....you've gotten us to expect the impossible, so that's kinda your fault

Originally Posted by madshi

The algorithms are basically the same as in v0.87.6, however, I've added Shiandow's linear light processing idea.

My initial impression with mono-static A4 is that killed the impression of depth on 720p content so I just spent quite some time comparing both builds in mono-static mode, with A4 on the bluray of Captain Harlock and ED11 on very crisp 30fps 1080p video content and in both cases the new build kills the sense of depth to my eyes...the wow factor is gone, PQ is pretty dull.

I guess an extra "use LL" checkbox would be great if it does anything good to anyone in dynamic/color mode but that's a no-go to my eyes in mono-static.

[Qaq]

Originally Posted by madshi

..here's one more dither test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRlinearLightDithering.rar

The algorithms are basically the same as in v0.87.6, however, I've added Shiandow's linear light processing idea.

Call me a videophile but this one seems to me a huge step in right direction. MadVR's picture never looked THAT transparent. I wonder if its even possible to make it better (should be!).
No way its just Catalyst (stripped to the bone) does tricks on me
I use ED1 with both options disabled.

[MistahBonzai]

Originally Posted by secvensor

1600х1200@100MHz
Error Diffusion - option 2 enabled

https://mega.co.nz/#!JF92jR6K!PlNXU3xJ01jO3D4cJBSFSn61aYl3zB-t3eZJdj9c0oo (the BEST test video)

OK..Now edit madVR settings:

1. Goto "scaling algorithms"
2. Drop down and select "image doubling"
3. Select "use NNEDI3 to double Luma resolution"
4. Drop down and select "only if scaling factor is 1.2 (or bigger)"
5. Select "128 neurons"

Play you test 640x480/30 test video (the BEST test video) and play full screen (Alt + Enter)

1. Still no frame drops?
2. Yes - how much GPU are you using?
3. No? Good!
4. Repeat setting procedure for "Use NNEDI3 to double Chroma resolution" but select "32 neurons"
5. Still no frame drops?
6. Yes? That's normal with your GPU
7. No? Ditch that Zoom Player

At that point (after selecting NNEDI3 Luma and Chrome up-scaling) my HD-7850 is maxed out. How are you doing?

[TheShadowRunner]

madshi, is madVR still using the "settings.bin" file or is it now working exclusively with the registry?
When installing the latest version, i forgot to copy over the "settings.bin" file and all my settings were there so I'm wondering.

[cyberbeing]

Originally Posted by TheShadowRunner

madshi, is madVR still using the "settings.bin" file or is it now working exclusively with the registry?
When installing the latest version, i forgot to copy over the "settings.bin" file and all my settings were there so I'm wondering.

The "settings.bin" is only loaded by madVR if the "Settings" registry key is not present. Whenever settings are changed, they are written to both settings.bin and the registry key.

[turbojet]

Speaking of settings.bin, I don't think in doubt deinterlacing and debanding settings are stored in it, otherwise they are getting reset by new versions.

[secvensor]

Originally Posted by MistahBonzai

OK..Now edit madVR settings:

1. Goto "scaling algorithms"
2. Drop down and select "image doubling"
3. Select "use NNEDI3 to double Luma resolution"
4. Drop down and select "only if scaling factor is 1.2 (or bigger)"
5. Select "128 neurons"

Play you test 640x480/30 test video (the BEST test video) and play full screen (Alt + Enter)

1. Still no frame drops?
2. Yes - how much GPU are you using?
3. No? Good!
4. Repeat setting procedure for "Use NNEDI3 to double Chroma resolution" but select "32 neurons"
5. Still no frame drops?
6. Yes? That's normal with your GPU
7. No? Ditch that Zoom Player

At that point (after selecting NNEDI3 Luma and Chrome up-scaling) my HD-7850 is maxed out. How are you doing?

MPC-HC last ver.
128 no drop GPU use 0~41~91%
32 no drop GPU use 0~41~91%
Zoom Player:
no drop GPU use 0~41~91%

256х4
no drop GPU use 0~41~91%
---------------------------
Jink 8/Jink 8 / Catroom:
drope 50-100 frames per sec. on 1600x1200@100MHz (1080p10bit60fps).

[bacondither]

Originally Posted by madshi

At least switching between 8bit and 3bit doesn't brighten up the image, anymore. So it does exactly what it's supposed to do. Let me know what you think! FWIW, it will probably cost a bit of extra performance, but I hope it will not be too much. The test build always applies linear light processing for dithering, for both ordered dithering and the 2 error diffusion algorithms.

Well, the image is not brighter anymore but darker areas are darker then they should be.
I suppose you are using Shiandow code with a decode gamma of 1/0.45. Use a decode gamma of 1/0.53, works much better with BT.709 content which most content is.

And yes, even with 1/0.53 decoding gamma a tiny amout of dark parts will be darker then then the original. But a larger part of the image will be closer to linear.

Example images(ordered dither):

3-bit linear light dither
8-bit linear light dither

1/0.45 and 1/0.53 decoding gamma applied to a BT.709 encoded gamma.
Values normalised so that y values of 1 is 100% of linear light output, y at 0.6 is 60% bright as linear light output and so on...
0 on the x axis is black, 1 is white.

[cyberbeing]

Originally Posted by turbojet

Speaking of settings.bin, I don't think in doubt deinterlacing and debanding settings are stored in it, otherwise they are getting reset by new versions.

Both are stored in settings bin, the only things which are not stored are things like "custom" debanding parameters, which is rather annoying. Though as mentioned, the settings.bin is ignored unless HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\madshi\madVR\Settings does not exist. That registry key always takes priority, if it exists and is newer.