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Old 31st May 2009, 11:26   #441  |  Link
shon3i
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Well VobSub format is usless for DVD Authoring, because none of DVD Authoring apps not suport it, we allredy talk about it, and only software (Subtitle Creator) which can convert bettwen SUP<->VobSub not work like should. btw ConvertXtoDVD is not DVD Authoring tool just like fast and easy bad quality MPEG2 Transocder
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Old 31st May 2009, 13:36   #442  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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Originally Posted by shon3i View Post
Well VobSub format is usless for DVD Authoring, because none of DVD Authoring apps not suport it, we allredy talk about it, and only software (Subtitle Creator) which can convert bettwen SUP<->VobSub not work like should. btw ConvertXtoDVD is not DVD Authoring tool just like fast and easy bad quality MPEG2 Transocder
For real DVD authoring (i.e. creating DVD from scratch), VobSub is as useless as SUP/IFO, so that is no valid point. E.g. DVD-Lab (Pro) supports neither VobSub nor SUP/IFO. The only image based format it supports is SON/BMP, which however is a pretty crappy format that I don't intend to support. Moreover, SON/BMP import doesn't seem to work correctly in DVDLab anyway. As SUP/IFO is a proprietary format introduced by IfoEdit, support by commercial tools is and will be limited if at all.

Besides, your definition of a DVD authoring tool is worthy of discussion to say the least. I'm not gonna put a gloss on ConvertXtoDVD as I mentioned its shortcomings already, but calling it a MPG2 transcoder is simply bollocks (for a couple of reasons). Indeed, a real authoring tool typically doesn't even have an internal video encoder as it's just responsible for creating a valid DVD structure from video/audio/subtitle streams etc.

Anyway, I don't really get the intention of your posting, as I already said I'd look into implementing SUP/IFO support. If at all, pointless postings like this waste my time and surely don't motivate me to implement new stuff.
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Old 1st June 2009, 00:15   #443  |  Link
shon3i
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Please don't get me wrong, really appreciate your effort and work, this is a great application for processing subtitles, and really would be good to get another very useful thing if it is technically possible. Not just for me, here on the forum a lot of people who know what i am talking about

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Originally Posted by 0xdeadbeef
Besides, your definition of a DVD authoring tool is worthy of discussion to say the least. I'm not gonna put a gloss on ConvertXtoDVD as I mentioned its shortcomings already, but calling it a MPG2 transcoder is simply bollocks (for a couple of reasons).
Ok, there is no real Authoring tool which support of any format, but still many DVD Muxers support only SUP/IFO. ConvertXToDVD maybe have little authoring (custom menu) but is far away from quality.
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Old 1st June 2009, 02:06   #444  |  Link
Surf
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Hello Ox,

Please don't get bullish...relax...we all appreciate your program tremendously.

Any self-respecting member here use HCenc & Muxman combo which requires the sup format.

So far we have to go around in circles to create that...

So, take your time, we patiently await thy implementation.

TIA
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Old 1st June 2009, 03:55   #445  |  Link
avivahl
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+1 on that DVD Sup request. Will help many users, including me.
Thanks for all your wonderful work.
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Old 1st June 2009, 11:29   #446  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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Guys, I already said I'd look into it. There's no need to convince me after posting #439.
Then again, the IFO format is pretty complex and although I only need to fill out a few fields, it will be some kind of a trial and error game to figure out which application relies on which fields when importing SUP/IFO.
IMHO, it was a really bad idea to use IFO just for the palette and frame size/rate info and it's really beyond me why a program that imports SUP/IFO doesn't also import SUB/IDX where the same information is stored in a text file.
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Old 1st June 2009, 14:23   #447  |  Link
hubblec4
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hello

there is a small step to convert sub/idx to dvd.sup.
use SubtitleCreater, there you can load the sub/idx and save it to dvd.sup.

hubble
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Old 1st June 2009, 14:31   #448  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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It doesn't seem to export the IFO though - so use lose palette, video size and frame rate.
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Old 1st June 2009, 19:55   #449  |  Link
turbojet
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But how useful would exporting an ifo be?

Outside of DVDSubEdit I don't know of any use for such an ifo and DVDSubEdit could just as well work with an authored DVD. One of the two PGCEdit color files I linked to last week would be much more useful in every situation I can think of.

I'm not saying ifo output wouldn't be nice eventually. I'm just trying to justify the time it would take to do it.
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Old 1st June 2009, 20:13   #450  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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It's probably pointless to repeat the same info again and again, but the palette is not the only info missing in the SUP.
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Old 1st June 2009, 20:32   #451  |  Link
turbojet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xdeadbeef View Post
It's probably pointless to repeat the same info again and again, but the palette is not the only info missing in the SUP.
I realize that but what use is there for resolution and framerate info without any software support?

DVDSubedit only gets the colors from ifo, nothing more.

Er I guess vobsub and vsrip does make use of fps in the ifo but vobsub is what everyone is trying to avoid having to mess with.

BTW pgcedit plans on adding color input from idx but there is a bug with vobsub that can't be worked around

Last edited by turbojet; 1st June 2009 at 20:37.
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Old 1st June 2009, 21:31   #452  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
I realize that but what use is there for resolution and framerate info without any software support?
"Without any" is a little exaggerated to say the least.

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DVDSubedit only gets the colors from ifo, nothing more.
It would be damn brainless to do so, but I can't fix other tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
Er I guess vobsub and vsrip does make use of fps in the ifo but vobsub is what everyone is trying to avoid having to mess with.

BTW pgcedit plans on adding color input from idx but there is a bug with vobsub that can't be worked around
That's why I didn't like the idea of SUP/IFO support in the first place. It's a somewhat messed format which kinda begs for problems and incompatibilities.
Anyway: if I'll support SUP, it'll be SUP/IFO. BDSup2Sub won't export any incomplete crap or define new incompatible formats.
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Old 1st June 2009, 21:44   #453  |  Link
turbojet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xdeadbeef View Post
"Without any" is a little exaggerated to say the least.
Well I edited it that vobsub can use the fps which can easily be altered but beyond that how useful is it really?

Quote:
That's why I didn't like the idea of SUP/IFO support in the first place. It's a somewhat messed format which kinda begs for problems and incompatibilities.
Anyway: if I'll support SUP, it'll be SUP/IFO. BDSup2Sub won't export any incomplete crap or define new incompatible formats.
OK but I think you are really overestimating the importance of the ifo file. Frankly I would have no use for it, only pgcedit color files. While I've asked you many times what software can support such an ifo file I haven't gotten any response on the matter. I have pointed out 2 programs that can use it but I fail to see any benefit of this standalone ifo that doesn't point to any video over an authored one that does.

My intentions are to find out how useful that ifo file really is. So far I can't see any real use for it. If it stays that way is there any reason to spend time on coding something to output it?

Last edited by turbojet; 1st June 2009 at 21:54.
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Old 1st June 2009, 22:12   #454  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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I think I made my point more than clear.
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Old 3rd June 2009, 20:34   #455  |  Link
deank
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I just want to add that using BDSup2Sub for DVD2AVCHD / DVD2Blu-ray has made a lot of users happy.

Thank you so much for what you've created.

My tools use mencoder to extract DVD subtitles and they all work just fine in AVCHD / Blu-ray after processed with BDSup2Sub after the changes you made in your program (since 3.5.6).

Thank you once again!

Dean
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Old 4th June 2009, 18:23   #456  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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Thanks, you're welcome
I especially appreciate this from a fellow coder. Although I never actually used multiAVCHD (yet), it sure looks pretty impressive. Dunno if you're aware of it, but there even was a small review (2/3 of a page actually) of it in the last issue of the very popular German PC mag "c't".

Anyway, unfortunately progress on BDSup2Sub slowed down quite a bit lately due to different reasons. While I already hacked in large parts of the functionality needed for SUP/IFO reading and writing, I don't think I will finish it before mid/end of next week.
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Old 4th June 2009, 20:52   #457  |  Link
turbojet
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Anyway, unfortunately progress on BDSup2Sub slowed down quite a bit lately due to different reasons. While I already hacked in large parts of the functionality needed for SUP/IFO reading and writing, I don't think I will finish it before mid/end of next week.
Few weeks is plenty quick enough, it's actually very quick reaction time which I've always appreciated from you, But I'm not really sure how pgcedit would deal with an ifo that points to no video but I guess we'll see. If it does handle it ok that's great, if it doesn't are you planning on including an output for pgcedit palette file?
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Old 4th June 2009, 21:21   #458  |  Link
0xdeadbeef
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If it does handle it ok that's great, if it doesn't are you planning on including an output for pgcedit palette file?
Implementing this is a piece of cake. It'll be more work to add the command line option and change the GUI. Still, it's not really a high priority topic on my list, so probably I'll release a version with SUP/IFO import/export and then later I might add the palette file.
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Old 5th June 2009, 22:19   #459  |  Link
laserfan
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Tho my SO is hearing-impaired, she is not deaf, and I hear everything, so I like to edit SDH subs. But I'm finding this difficult to do and wonder if there's an easier way:

1. Click right-arrow upper right, get ST to edit

2. Click "Exclude from export", or Select Rectangle and Erase, and then click "Save Changes"

3. Move mouse upper right and click right arrow (which disconcertingly says "Lose changes and skip to next" in pop-up)

There's an awful lot of mouse-moving and clicking and I wonder if there is any easier way or if there are any hot keys I don't know about. Thanks...

P.S. Example of something that would help--when you click "Save Changes" go to next frame automatically.
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Old 6th June 2009, 23:51   #460  |  Link
Jaja1
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I agree, all the mouse moving makes it not so easy to edit a .sup. Going to the next frame after saving changes would be an improvement.

And I guess if you just delete images, it wouldn't be necessary to save changes after every delete at all. I can understand that edits of the images are hard to cache, but commiting deletes can be postponed to a later time I suppose? If so, it would be nice to jump to the next frame after hitting the delete button. And as soon as real editing is done, you must save your changes after every edit.
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