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Old 13th January 2017, 14:05   #21  |  Link
Overdrive80
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Code:
DGDecode_mpeg2source("C:\Users\Isra\Desktop\212 - Ouroboros.demuxed.d2v", info=3)

ColorMatrix(hints=true, threads=0, interlaced=true)

assumebff()

animeivtc(mode=2)#mode=3 works fine too.
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Old 13th January 2017, 14:09   #22  |  Link
ndjamena
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I told you there is something wrong with the Gargoyles credits. The sun jumps back a bit as the background moves, but it's not something a filter can fix. The sun is at one position before the background shifts, then it moves a little further forward, then the background shifts and the sun moves back to it's previous position.

The fact is those moments in time are incompatible. That little bit of forward movement before the background shifts can't exist in any sane timestream, since the sun exists in it's previous position AFTER the background has moved, it CAN'T exist in the next position BEFORE it moves.

Or are you referring to something else in the credits?
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Old 13th January 2017, 19:34   #23  |  Link
hello_hello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Boundary View Post
https://www.sendspace.com/file/74oau3

Look at the spinning radar-like displays in the background. When bob-deinterlaced, they normally move clockwise, but sometimes jerk counter-clockwise for 1 or 2 fields.
If the video itself is 29.970fps progressive, TFM() works. I think the CGI stuff is telecined so with TFM() the CGI will end up 29.970fps progressive with one in five frames repeated.

Or TFM().TDecimate will make the CGI stuff progressive at 23.976fps, but with or without TDecimate(), if the "video" is 29.970fps progressive that'll make motion jittery. It's hard to tell from the sample as there's no background movement, so TFM() only has to field match the CGI. If there was lots of background movement I doubt it'd be fixable that way.

The closest compromise you'll probably get is QTGMC as it won't do much damage to progressive video, but you'll still need SelectEven() to delete the frames where the CGI moves in the wrong direction. I can't see converting that to 59.940fps short of QTGMC().SelectEven(),ChangeFPS(60000,1001), or adding motion interpolated frames, but that'd probably be pointless.

Last edited by hello_hello; 13th January 2017 at 21:29.
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Old 13th January 2017, 20:18   #24  |  Link
johnmeyer
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It sure is helpful to have a clip to look at.

First of all, I doubt very much this is simply a "rip" of the original material. If you put the clip into a simple script containing only "separatefields()", you find all sorts of retrograde field behavior (i.e., where the movement stutters backwards and forwards) no matter whether you add an AssumeTFF() or AssumeBFF() before the separatefields statement. Also, at the very beginning of the clip, the figure in the center of the screen has totally different luma/chroma values for one field than in the other field, and this persists for several frames.

Thus, I must conclude that this clip has already undergone some sort of processing prior to being uploaded and that this processing has significantly altered the clip.

The field matching solutions offered in the parallel (redundant?) thread started by the OP at about the same time as this thread seem to sort out the field order issues, so all you need to do is figure out the correct decimate logic.

Last edited by johnmeyer; 13th January 2017 at 20:19. Reason: added "as this thread"
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Old 13th January 2017, 21:14   #25  |  Link
wonkey_monkey
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Quote:
Thus, I must conclude that this clip has already undergone some sort of processing prior to being uploaded and that this processing has significantly altered the clip.
It's got a 30fps (ostensibly; yet it also shows occasional signs of interlacing) video effect overlaid on 3:2 pulled down 24p. Anything could have happened to it in that process. On the basis of that, by itself, I'd give anyone but Katie the benefit of the doubt, and assume it might just be badly edited video (let's face it, Andromeda wasn't exactly big budget).

But then I see the two shot changes - the first one is BFF and the second is TFF. So who the hell knows.

A longer clip with more action would have been useful. If this is the only problem bit I'd say it's just shoddy work at the studio.
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Last edited by wonkey_monkey; 13th January 2017 at 21:36.
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Old 13th January 2017, 21:16   #26  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive80 View Post
Code:
DGDecode_mpeg2source("C:\Users\Isra\Desktop\212 - Ouroboros.demuxed.d2v", info=3)

ColorMatrix(hints=true, threads=0, interlaced=true)

assumebff()

animeivtc(mode=2)#mode=3 works fine too.
What the hell is Colormatrix? Can you explain your thought process or how this is supposed to work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
I told you there is something wrong with the Gargoyles credits.
I told you first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
Or are you referring to something else in the credits?
I'm talking about everything, but especially the TITLE CARD:



Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
First of all, I doubt very much this is simply a "rip" of the original material.
Too bad for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
If you put the clip into a simple script containing only "separatefields()", you find all sorts of retrograde field behavior (i.e., where the movement stutters backwards and forwards) no matter whether you add an AssumeTFF() or AssumeBFF() before the separatefields statement.
THAT'S WHAT I SAID!!!!! Hello and welcome to the very first post of this thread. Jesus Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
Thus, I must conclude that this clip has already undergone some sort of processing prior to being uploaded and that this processing has significantly altered the clip.
Wrong. Go ahead and rent or buy Andromeda Season 2 Collection 3, rip the episode "Ouroboros", and see for yourself. Or did I alter those too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
The field matching solutions offered in the parallel (redundant?) thread started by the OP at about the same time as this thread seem to sort out the field order issues
No, that only HIDES the field order issues, and it does so at the price of interlacing every place where there's an orphaned field.

And no, the threads aren't redundant or even related. One thread is about fields being encoded into the video stream in an incorrect order. The other is about double-rate field-matching.
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Last edited by Katie Boundary; 13th January 2017 at 21:19.
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Old 13th January 2017, 23:31   #27  |  Link
johnmeyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Boundary View Post
THAT'S WHAT I SAID!!!!! Hello and welcome to the very first post of this thread. Jesus Christ.
I really did try to help, but that sort of language, and that nasty, snarky response means that you are a person who doesn't deserve any help from me, or anyone else.
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Old 14th January 2017, 00:21   #28  |  Link
Sharc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidhorman View Post
It's got a 30fps (ostensibly; yet it also shows occasional signs of interlacing) video effect overlaid on 3:2 pulled down 24p. Anything could have happened to it in that process.... .

But then I see the two shot changes - the first one is BFF and the second is TFF. So who the hell knows.
Yes; from the flags:
Frame 0 to 13: Interlaced, BFF
Frame 14 to 146: progressive film with 3:2 pulldown (+ video overlay with messy field sequence)
Frame 147 to 149: Progressive, TFF
Frame 150 to 153: Interlaced, TFF
Frame 154 to 155 (end): progressive film with 3:2 pulldown (probably, sequence too short)
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Old 14th January 2017, 01:57   #29  |  Link
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Oh, it's actually flagged like that? Bonkers. Or KB's now taken to inventing problems just so there's something to talk about.
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Old 14th January 2017, 04:33   #30  |  Link
ndjamena
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Being deliberately vague at what the hell you're talking about then throwing tantrums when people don't automatically get it really doesn't help progress the thread along.

Other than that they've switched to 60i in order to produce a flickering effect on the logo and the sun is animated wrong, what exactly do you think is wrong it the credits?

What are we supposed to be fixing?
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Old 14th January 2017, 05:07   #31  |  Link
ndjamena
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According to dgindex the flags in Gargoyles 1x2 and 2x1 are all fine.

I even loaded the d2v files into TFM, if there was any problems with the flags TFM would have created a "-Fixed" d2v file.

Are we complaining about the animation? The bad frames with the sun should probably be removed, and unless you want 60p output or VFR video you should probably convert both the sun and the logo to 24p anyway.

It you don't want to do that then that's your call, but encoding a 20 minute file as 60p just for the sake of a few seconds of minor effects seems overkill, and VFR can be problematic for some players.

Of course I have no idea what kind of output you want so there's no point in continuing until you explain what's going on.
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Old 14th January 2017, 05:33   #32  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post
I really did try to help, but that sort of language, and that nasty, snarky response means that you are a person who doesn't deserve any help from me, or anyone else.
What it means is that you should read posts before replying to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
Being deliberately vague at what the hell you're talking about
I wasn't vague at all. I was EXTREMELY specific. It's not my fault if you and John are illiterate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
Other than that they've switched to 60i in order to produce a flickering effect on the logo and the sun is animated wrong, what exactly do you think is wrong it the credits?
Those two things should be enough, but if you want a third example, the fades are also done incorrectly.
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Old 14th January 2017, 06:02   #33  |  Link
ndjamena
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And you didn't answer what you expect us to do about it.

We all come across this kind of crap on pretty much a daily basis, and we don't feel the need to blurt it all over the forum.

As far as I can tell, the top fields and bottom fields of the 60i sections were animated in separate streams, and as you can tell from the sun in the beginning the result actually makes no sense whatsoever. There's nothing you or anyone else can do about that unless you plan on reanimating the frames.

Other than that, video special effects plastered over telecined film elements is actually so common as to be meaningless as far as this forum is concerned.

If it's so obvious where this thread is supposed to be going, maybe someone other than Katie can explain it to me, since all she's capable of doing is claiming how obvious it is?
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Old 14th January 2017, 10:06   #34  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
And you didn't answer what you expect us to do about it.
Speculating that she wants a smooth playback at 23.976 fps progressive, one could try as follows:
1. Remove the pulldown flags from the stream
2. then deinterlace


1. Pulldown flags can be removed with the DGPulldown tool. Select the custom framerate option, and select source and destination equal to 23.976
2. deinterlace e.g. with
QTGMC(preset="fast").selecteven()
It should give a progressive 23.976 stream.
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Old 14th January 2017, 10:08   #35  |  Link
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I suggested she convert to 24p, she said, no.

Quote:
LOLno, that absolutely will not work.

Last edited by ndjamena; 14th January 2017 at 10:10.
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Old 14th January 2017, 10:27   #36  |  Link
ndjamena
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I've recently noticed a phenomenon in hybrid content that I don't know how to deal with. Fields will sometimes be arranged in a pattern that looks perfectly fine when viewed on an interlaced display, and doesn't look the least bit odd when run through separatefields and doubleweave, but yields jerkiness when bob-deinterlaced regardless of what field order is used. Examples include:


Does anyone know what the hell this is, why it's done, and how to fix it?
By the way, Gargoyles in no way fits the description in the initial post.

The fields orders are 100% correct and it DOES NOT look fine using separate fields.

It's an animation error, pure and simple. The only way to deal with it is to remove the illogical frames and deal with the rest to your own personal taste (and there's no right way of choosing that).

It's not something that needs to be discussed, other than as a curiosity or an FYI.
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Old 14th January 2017, 11:14   #37  |  Link
ndjamena
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Here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/4dv0788q0v0a7u4/Wolf.m2v

Weird random crap from a DVD if anyone wants to ogle.

Last edited by ndjamena; 14th January 2017 at 11:36.
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Old 14th January 2017, 14:31   #38  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Speculating that she wants a smooth playback at 23.976 fps progressive, one could try as follows.....
I'm fairly sure she's currently in 60fps mode. The previously impenetrable barrier of field separation, decimation and resizing collapsed on 19th April 2016, or as it's more commonly referred to, Bob Tuesday.

A new thread was created to mark the commencement of the post Bob Tuesday reality, which I remember fondly, as after being insulted for days for trying to explain NTSC is an 59.94i interlaced format, I discovered in the newly created timeline that didn't happen and I'd really been denying 59.94i NTSC existed.

Within days of Bob Tuesday and the end of the previous "separate fields" reality, where 60fps and VFR video weren't very useful, Katie thought of an idea for 60fps & VBR encoding, an attempt was made to re-invent Bob, and orphaned fields became a protected species in an attempt to deter the use of automated, more intelligent tools, especially de-interlacers.

Last edited by hello_hello; 14th January 2017 at 21:17.
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Old 16th January 2017, 11:11   #39  |  Link
Katie Boundary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
Other than that, video special effects plastered over telecined film elements is actually so common as to be meaningless as far as this forum is concerned.
Okay but that has nothing to do with this thread, which is about incorrect field orders.

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Originally Posted by Sharc View Post
Speculating that she wants a smooth playback at 23.976 fps progressive
That is literally not possible with this content. Not without dropping distinguishable images.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndjamena View Post
By the way, Gargoyles in no way fits the description in the initial post.

The fields orders are 100% correct and it DOES NOT look fine using separate fields.
Did you forget to add Doubleweave? I bet you forgot to add Doubleweave.
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Old 17th January 2017, 09:39   #40  |  Link
manono
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Unless you upload an untouched sample showing the problem you claim exists, I'll close this thread to save others from wasting their time trying to help you.

You have a couple of days.
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