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Old 6th February 2006, 10:52   #41  |  Link
SeeMoreDigital
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaz
yep ... such kinda 'calculators' are still released. one of the most known is called Gordian Knot. just give it a try ! well fitted to your dvd resizing problems.

the bests
y
Can anyone confirm....

Are you able to use the GK and MeGUI "calculators" outside of their applications?
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Old 6th February 2006, 11:46   #42  |  Link
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Old 6th February 2006, 12:57   #43  |  Link
yaz
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@seemoredigital
don't feel offended either off-handed, pls ! i just meant by the quotation marks that cropping/resizing are integral part(s) of some well developed applications.
if u (or someone) find such culculator usuful, pls, go on !

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Old 6th February 2006, 13:09   #44  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaz
@seemoredigital
don't feel offended either off-handed, pls ! i just meant by the quotation marks that cropping/resizing are integral part(s) of some well developed applications.
if u (or someone) find such culculator usuful, pls, go on !

the bests
y
No I'm not offended at all... far from it

As I don't use GK, I don't know what features it offers its users. Embedded or external.


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Old 6th February 2006, 19:09   #45  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbert
SMD likes to stick to non-standard terminology. I think his MAR is the playback AR (after cropping away the black borders). If that's the case, than in many cases you don't know the MAR in advance, unless it is specified on the box of the dvd.
Yes.... MAR (Movie Aspect Ratio) is the term I'm proposing we adopt to refer to the aspect ratio of the original source.

After looking at the back of a few DVD cases I've found several other expressions, such as: Original Theatrical Presentation, Original Theatrical Exhibition, Presented in x.xx:x, TV Aspect Ratio.


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Old 7th February 2006, 03:06   #46  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berrinam
Nu-uh! MeGUI now uses what what SMD refers to as Movie Aspect Ratio everywhere. So the only values you will ever really need to know are 4:3, 1:1, 16:9, 47:20 (2.35) and 37:20 (1.85). MeGUI just does all the calculations that SMD described, but behind your back so that you don't have to see them.


Maybe you could try MeGUI's new system first? It should do all the calculations that SMD's does.

What version of MeGUI does this? I am currently using version 2.3.1024. Can I simply enter in these values for SAR in the version of MeGUI I am using?

Also I'm unsure when I would use 16:9 rather than 47:20 or 37:20? Is 16:9 for letterbox or nonanamorphic movies?
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Old 7th February 2006, 09:32   #47  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDivide
What version of MeGUI does this?
0.2.3.2059.Your version is very old, and you are missing many good new features. Unfortunately, no new builds are being put on SourceForge for the moment, so you'll have to head over to ChronoCross's builds. There's a link to them at the top of the MeGUI Guide, which is a sticky in the Mpeg-4 Encoder GUIs forum.

Quote:
Also I'm unsure when I would use 16:9 rather than 47:20 or 37:20? Is 16:9 for letterbox or nonanamorphic movies?
They all mean something different. It depends on the AR of your source. If you use the new MeGUI AviSynth Script creator, it should also tell you the correct value (updated also in 0.2.3.2059).
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Old 7th February 2006, 11:17   #48  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalDivide
Also I'm unsure when I would use 16:9 rather than 47:20 or 37:20? Is 16:9 for letterbox or nonanamorphic movies?
16:9 as a fraction, equates to 1.777:1 as a decimal
47:20 as a fraction, equates to 2.35:1 as a decimal
37:20 as a fraction, equates to 2.40:1 as a decimal

All the above (fractions and decimals), represent the original movies aspect ratio. Which can be found on the back of the original DVD case


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Old 7th February 2006, 12:53   #49  |  Link
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what i have encountered now a couple of times is, that the ratio on the back of the dvd cover had nothing to do with the actual ratio of the picture without the black borders.

@berrinam: somehow, the values megui reports and writes into the avs file have little to do with the values that i would put in (and which i believe to be correct) into the fields of, what megui calls "sample aspect ratio _ x _" (i tried with te most recent version .2065)

i believe my little tool gives the correct values: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=106929

so long,
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Old 7th February 2006, 13:50   #50  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmk
what i have encountered now a couple of times is, that the ratio on the back of the dvd cover had nothing to do with the actual ratio of the picture without the black borders.
Very rarely though!

With Blade Runner for example. When you play this DVD in a software media player (such as Media Player Classic) and take a "full screen" capture you will see this: -



As you can see both the horizontal and vertical mattes are very poor indeed

However, when you hard crop the mattes away from the above image you will see this -



And when you divide 968 pixels by 414 pixels you get aspect ratio of 2.338 to 1 (2.338:1).

Which is only 5 "horizontal" pixels away from 2.35:1. Or just 2 "vertical" pixels away from 2.35:1


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Old 7th February 2006, 14:06   #51  |  Link
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well, i had my biggest problem with "2001: A Space Odyssey" i took my quite a while to figuere the correct ratio out.

it is encoded on the dvd as:
Aspect_Ratio=16:9
Picture_Size=720x576

but you have to crop it in this way:
crop(2,52,-2,-52)

which left me with a ratio of 2,16:1. which is quite a difference to 2,35:1, the value megui proposed...

but also a couple of other movies are not really 2,35:1 some are more close than others, but if i set the par/sar/or whatever value, i want it to be exact!
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Old 7th February 2006, 14:23   #52  |  Link
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Actually 2001: A Space Odyssey was shot in 70mm film with aspect ratio 2.21:1. In DVD releases there are usually narrow bands of image missing from all sides (perhaps because the transfer was made from a 35mm 2.35:1 copy), but at least Amazon lists 2.21:1 as an aspect ratio for their 2001 DVD releases.
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Old 7th February 2006, 14:32   #53  |  Link
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Yep some are wrong...

My copy of Lawrence of Arabia is described on the back of the DVD as being 2.20:1, when it's nearer to 2.157:1.

And Dune, which is described on the back of the DVD as being 2.35:1, when it's nearer to 2.30:1.

Which both equate to being around 10 vertical pixels off target... quite a bit


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 7th February 2006 at 14:53.
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Old 7th February 2006, 16:16   #54  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nm
Actually 2001: A Space Odyssey was shot in 70mm film with aspect ratio 2.21:1. In DVD releases there are usually narrow bands of image missing from all sides (perhaps because the transfer was made from a 35mm 2.35:1 copy), but at least Amazon lists 2.21:1 as an aspect ratio for their 2001 DVD releases.
yes, and imdb.com lists it as 2.20:1 but it looked awful. a literally took a ruler and measured the visible picture on my computer screen - that was fun

all i am trying to say here, even though the ratio of the actual picture (what did we call it again) might be off, if the par/sar/whatever value is calculated correctly, it does not matter.

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Old 7th February 2006, 17:12   #55  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmk
yes, and imdb.com lists it as 2.20:1 but it looked awful. a literally took a ruler and measured the visible picture on my computer screen - that was fun
Well nobody should have to do that for a start!

The more convenient method would be to: -
  • Play your DVD source in your favourite software media player "at full screen". (Not WMP 9/10).
  • Navigate to a nice light section of the movie, and press the "Print Screen" button on your keyboard.
  • Paste the captured image into a reasonable quality imaging software application.
  • Use the "auto cropping" tool in your imaging software application.
  • Save the cropped image and make a note of it's "pixel frame size" (PFS)
  • Grab a calculator and divide the pixel image frame "width" by the pixel image frame "height".
The resulting calculation will be your "Movie Aspect Ratio" (MAR)


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 7th February 2006 at 17:36.
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Old 7th February 2006, 17:30   #56  |  Link
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well, you could just use the values provided by the d2v and the avs file -> and thats what my tool does.

the new version prints it out, too. and it should now work with every resize method

till it gets approved:

http://rapidshare.de/files/12751934/...r_0.2.rar.html
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File Type: rar ar_calculator_0.2.rar (2.5 KB, 114 views)
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Old 8th February 2006, 11:06   #57  |  Link
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Aspect Ratio Signalling (ARS) Calculation Tool

Okay,

Here is the first version of the ARS Calculator. I hope some of you guys will enjoy using it




At the time of writing it requires version 2 of Micro$oft's .NET Framework in order to run.

My profound thanks goes to Moitah. Who was able to turn my design concept into a working reality. Many, many thanks....


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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 8th February 2006 at 18:54.
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Old 8th February 2006, 11:17   #58  |  Link
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hey, nice design.

correct me, if i am wrong, but it should only work with pal dvds!?

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Old 8th February 2006, 11:24   #59  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmk
hey, nice design.

correct me, if i am wrong, but it should only work with pal dvds!?

jmk
Nope..... It will generate an "Aspect Ratio Signalling" value (aka: PAR, SAR, DAR value) for both PAL and NTSC encodes
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Last edited by SeeMoreDigital; 8th February 2006 at 11:47.
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Old 8th February 2006, 11:40   #60  |  Link
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Hum ... long & interesting post !

so I've a question : is my way is right or fully ...bad... ?

My way :

For both PAL and NTSC DVD, I just crop up and bottom ( if side borders are not too large ) ... never resize !

And I know :
> PAL : 720*576 -> 1024*576
> NTSC : 720*480 -> 854*480

So if my cropped frame is 720*416 (PAL) for exemple , my AR in MkvMergeGui is 1024*416 ...

is it right or not ?!

Thanks everybody
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