madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[leeperry]

BTW, I would like to have FRC always enabled except when refresh rates and fps match(50fps@50Hz/59.94fps@60Hz with Reclock forcing 60fps). I would have to create profiles apparently?

[mogli]

Originally Posted by madshi

[...]
Could you olease use mediafire or another decent file host? Thanks.

No problem here. Since I downloaded it, I also provide a mirror (click 'Direct download link', *not* the big green download button).

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by madshi

That file host sucks big time. I've tried to download the file 3 times. It claims the file was downloaded in some fancy browser page, but it's nowhere on my PC. Found no way to actually successfully download your file.

I suggest JDownloader 2, it can download files and videos from many hosters and is open source.
However, watch out during the installation to uncheck the adware crap (don't use express installation).

It's btw. a very useful tool to watch most videos from the web with madVR.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Originally Posted by huhn

did you used/tried "input encoding TV RGB range 16-235 (clip WTW)?

Yep, I can confirm that using the right bloody setting (-eT as opposed to -et) also fixes the problem. Classic PEBKAC :\

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Its documented here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/thr3dlut/files/doc/

Thanks!

[huhn]

Originally Posted by leeperry

BTW, I would like to have FRC always enabled except when refresh rates and fps match(50fps@50Hz/59.94fps@60Hz with Reclock forcing 60fps). I would have to create profiles apparently?

doesn't option 2 in FRC with using display mode xxxxp50, xxxxp60 doesn't do the trick?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Manni

I used the latest 0.90.9, but I tried an earlier version with Catalyst last week and it didn't work either, so I waited to be able to test with Crimson before reporting, as Catalyst doesn't work properly with 3D anyway.

Just to be sure, can you tell me which options in MadVR have to be enabled for this automatic switch to happen?

3D enabled and display set to "auto".

Please create a debug log with v0.90.10, maybe I can see something.

Originally Posted by mogli

No problem here. Since I downloaded it, I also provide a mirror (click 'Direct download link', *not* the big green download button).

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Telion

http://hugefiles.net/4eeyrwm5p5xz
I've found out that if I stop the playback before closing the file or opening another, the leak is never there (and it is so in both v0.90.4 and v0.90.9 builds). But if I do this while playing or on pause - sometimes it leaks, sometimes not. It seems to be completely random - I haven't been able to identify any pattern or dependencies. Also, the "stop" case doesn't depend on the presence of "DontRenderAfterStop" file.
So I created two debug logs - one with stop&close case (so no leak) and the other with immediate close after playback started (and with a leak of course). I have a rather slow rig, so maybe that matters and it is some sort of race condition. But definitely there were no such problem with v0.90.3 and before.

Ok, I've done one more change. Is it fixed in v0.90.10? If not, please create a new debug log with v0.90.10. Please use mediafire (or some other *good* upload site) for uploading instead of hugefiles. Thanks.

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I suggest JDownloader 2, it can download files and videos from many hosters and is open source.
However, watch out during the installation to uncheck the adware crap (don't use express installation).

It's btw. a very useful tool to watch most videos from the web with madVR.

Thanks, will give it a try.

[madshi]

madVR v0.90.10 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added support for Jinc (AR) downscaling
* added support for SSIM 1D vs. 2D downscaling
* added a couple of SSIM performance improvements
* added support for reading 3D eye order information from splitter/decoder
* fixed: bitmap subtitles (DVD/Blu-Ray) were not always properly downscaled
* fixed: DXVA deint + SSIM downscaling could result in bad image quality
* fixed: memory leak (maybe)

Notes:

1) Jinc downscaling is quite a bit slower than most other downscaling methods. Benefits and costs are similar to upscaling (less aliasing & moire, slightly less sharp than Lanczos), but less pronounced. Whether it's a good downscaler or not I'll leave for you guys to judge. If you've fun to test Jinc downscaling, please especially test the AR filter. It's quite aggressive. I hope the agressiveness doesn't come with negative side effects?

2) "SSIM 1D" is the same as "SSIM" in v0.90.9 (just a bit faster, I hope). It's based on a Bicubic kernel. "SSIM 2D" is based on a Jinc kernel, so it's rather slow.

3) 3D users please update to the latest LAV build:

https://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/LA...-0.67.0-85.exe

This LAV build now tells madVR which order the left/right eyes have. This information is read from the MKV file. Unfortunately MakeMKV doesn't store this information yet. BUT, you can manually edit your MKV files to add this information. Here's how:

Use the mkvtoolnix MKV header editor to add the field "StereoMode" to the video track. Set it to value "13" to signal that the left eye comes first. Set it to "14" to signal that the right eye comes first. Using the latest LAV build and madVR v0.90.10, your MKV files should then play perfectly without you having to toggle the "swap left/right eye" option in the madVR display properties all the time.

[aufkrawall]

Thanks for the new build.
I think I will just stick with bicubic 150 for downscaling to WQHD, I don't see any real drawback with it with any real video.

[kasper93]

Originally Posted by madshi

You may have to reselect SSIM when updating your madVR version because the SSIM internal names changed when I removed the "detailed" vs "clean" option. If that is not the problem, then could you please show a screenshot with the Ctrl+J OSD turned on?

Nah, that's not it. It only happens when NEEDI is used, for example super-xbr works with SSIM. That's why it seems little bit off. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lm5d4tuk6r3oe22/SSIM.png

[QBhd]

I also seem to keep coming back to bicubic150 for downscaling. I mainly have two scenarios 1) 1280x720 doubled then downscaled to 1024x768 and 2) 1920x1080 downscaled to 1024x768.

QB

[Stereodude]

I have a question about dropped frames and the "reduce banding artifacts" option. With it enabled I will get dropped frames in the OSD statistics but the max rendering time while the frames drop is still well below 1/FPS. IE: 23.976 content being displayed at "23p" and the max rendering time is less than 20ms and the queues don't empty while the counter increases (in fades), so are the dropped frames real or just an indicator the algorithm is working? It usually drops about 5-6 at a time. If I turn off the "reduce banding artifacts" option I can play back the same file with no dropped frames.

[aufkrawall]

I don't think that any framedrops should be reported if you want to have a stable playback as granted.
Have you disabled the quality tradeoff option for deband's fade detection? If yes, either
-turn it on again
-increase the queue lengths (I recommend by a lot)
-disable fade detection of deband

[Stereodude]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

I don't think that any framedrops should be reported if you want to have a stable playback as granted.
Have you disabled the quality tradeoff option for deband's fade detection? If yes, either
-turn it on again
-increase the queue lengths (I recommend by a lot)
-disable fade detection of deband

If the max rendering time doesn't spike, the queues don't hiccup (momentarily go empty), and there's not a refresh rate sync issue, where are the dropped frames coming from? Everything else in the OSD says playback is stable and keeping up. Visually, I don't notice any playback glitches when it happens. Hence my question about what the counters mean specifically as it pertains to the "remove banding artifacts" feature.

FWIW, my CPU & GPU queues are 12 and the present queue is 10.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by huhn

doesn't option 2 in FRC with using display mode xxxxp50, xxxxp60 doesn't do the trick?

I'll give you that this option is confusing but it doesn't appear to do what I want when to me FRC only makes sense when fps and refresh rate aren't the exact same, oh well I might look into creating a profile that doesn't enable FRC for 50@50 and 59.94@60.

Originally Posted by madshi

1) Jinc downscaling is quite a bit slower than most other downscaling methods. Benefits and costs are similar to upscaling (less aliasing & moire, slightly less sharp than Lanczos), but less pronounced. Whether it's a good downscaler or not I'll leave for you guys to judge. If you've fun to test Jinc downscaling, please especially test the AR filter. It's quite aggressive. I hope the agressiveness doesn't come with negative side effects?

for the new build.

Truth is, I've been messing around with all the latest features yesterday and long story short:

-I keep RS+SR@1 chroma coz it looks smooth and very detailed, nothing touches it to my eyes and it makes high bitrate 1080p60 video footage breathtaking
-CR AR LL had been the most sensible choice for a while for a good reason as it's neither too sharp or too blurry. I just tried Jinc downscaling but indeed there's no free lunch to be expected, I'll run more tests later.
-SSIM in 0.90.9 is nice all but for 2X SD/720p@1080p it looks hell too sharp and digital, great choice for PIP indeed. I'll look into its new sub-options that were introduced in .10
-sometimes any 2X luma gives a nasty digital look, sometimes NNEDI3 looks like oil painting or artificial to death, sometimes sxbr25 looks too thick and rings wayyy too much(amplified by both luma & chroma SR's EE), sometimes NEDI looks the most natural by far and some other times all three look oversharp anyway with Jinc AR+SR@2 looking more credible and providing that highly sought after "looking through a window" feeling
-still undecided on the Jinc AR "sigmoidal light", I seem to prefer it off on most material
-SR@1 for luma looks very smooth and is most likely my fav sharpen filter in mVR, too bad there's no softer strength but c'est la vie, not gonna ask for a refund just yet anyway
-2X SR@1 for luma on lowres is just too much on most material when used in combination with my other settings because SR@1 is already very sharp on its own so too much of a good thing.....less is more sometimes

Bottom line is a "set and forget" mVR config is a wild dream at best because as Bruce Lee said "the best technique is to have no technique" and there are no 100% foolproof settings that will look best in any given situation IMO. All this said, it's quite fun to tinker around till you get proud of what you're seeing heh....much like adjusting an EQ till you manage to get rid of most edginess/bumpiness

I guess much like EQ, field experience can teach you what combination will look best right away

[aufkrawall]

Originally Posted by Stereodude

If the max rendering time doesn't spike, the queues don't hiccup (momentarily go empty), and there's not a refresh rate sync issue, where are the dropped frames coming from? Everything else in the OSD says playback is stable and keeping up. Visually, I don't notice any playback glitches when it happens. Hence my question about what the counters mean specifically as it pertains to the "remove banding artifacts" feature.

FWIW, my CPU & GPU queues are 12 and the present queue is 10.

I think madshi mentioned that without the tradeoff option ticked, the deband fade detection discards some prerendered frames since it can only start the higher deband intensity for the fade detection when the actual fade is detected, and not before.
I don't know if discarded frames are reported as dropped. I assume when the queues are staying full enough and you don't notice any stutter, it should be fine.

However, imho it would be better to move this tradeoff option to the bottom to the options which shouldn't be changed. Imho it's too confusing.

[BetA13]

Originally Posted by ryrynz

Nvidia? Reinstall your drivers with a clean install.

worked perfect... NNEDI3 works again

Also, im wondering if madshi did some performance improvements, or was it nevcairiel or maybe Nvidia i didnt know it..

who knows...anyway, why im writing this, is that i now, all of a sudden can watch 4k stuff and "DucksTakeOff_2160p50.x264.CRF24.mkv" without framedrops?!?!?! and its all smooth..
Before it was struggling to get 1 or 2 fps, if at all...

What happened??? its like a whole new world for me.. the quality is, aahhrgh, i dont know, overhelming?!?!

i have an gtx670, and therefor no native 4k support or HEVC..
Why does it work now?? Its using my GPU not the CPU also.. so thats good..

I even tested an 1080p x265 HEVC encoding and it worked like charm, and the gpu was doing teh work...

i dont know why, or how, but its working now flawless for me.. Never ever could do 4k before with my madvr setup..now i can...

Am i wrong or does teh gtx670 has 4k support??

greetz

[madshi]

Originally Posted by aufkrawall

Thanks for the new build.
I think I will just stick with bicubic 150 for downscaling to WQHD, I don't see any real drawback with it with any real video.

I don't think there's a drawback, it's just not as detailed as SSIM in many situations. Do you like Bicubic 150 *better* than SSIM? Or are you using it just because of performance reasons? If so, try SSIM again in v0.90.10. It's not that much slower than Bicubic, anymore, at least with a decent GPU and with a reasonably large downscaling factor (the smaller the downscaling factor, the more extra performance SSIM costs over Bicubic).

Originally Posted by kasper93

Nah, that's not it. It only happens when NEEDI is used, for example super-xbr works with SSIM. That's why it seems little bit off.https://www.dropbox.com/s/lm5d4tuk6r3oe22/SSIM.png

Ah, I see. SSIM currently requires both X and Y to be downscaled (or at least not upscaled). In your case one direction needs upscaling, the other downscaling. In that case SSIM doesn't work. Well, I suppose I could force image doubling in such a way that both X and Y are doubled the same number of times so that SSIM can be used afterwards. But to be honest, I don't think for downscaling after doubling SSIM has much benefit over Bicubic150.

Originally Posted by QBhd

I also seem to keep coming back to bicubic150 for downscaling.

Your own choice like aufkrawall? Or against your will like kasper93?

Originally Posted by Stereodude

FWIW, my CPU & GPU queues are 12 and the present queue is 10.

Fade detection is done by CPU. Try 24 CPU queue and 16 GPU queue, in addition to your 10 present queue. Basically fade detection drops some frames of your queues, so it helps having some extra head room available. Especially increasing the CPU queue size doesn't cost you *anything*, other than RAM.

Originally Posted by leeperry

I'll give you that this option is confusing but it doesn't appear to do what I want when to me FRC only makes sense when fps and refresh rate aren't the exact same

Which is what that option should do.

Originally Posted by leeperry

Bottom line is a "set and forget" mVR config is a wild dream at best because as Bruce Lee said "the best technique is to have no technique" and there are no 100% foolproof settings that will look best in any given situation IMO.

Well, if you're aiming to get about the same sharpness level for all kinds of content then you'll have to tweak settings all the time. Different sources come with different sharpness levels. If you're willing to accept that, it should be possible to find some allround settings which might not be perfect every time, but should be more than acceptable almost every time.

But then, I really don't want you to stop tinkering since you seem to like it.

Originally Posted by BetA13

Also, im wondering if madshi did some performance improvements, or was it nevcairiel or maybe Nvidia i didnt know it..

who knows...anyway, why im writing this, is that i now, all of a sudden can watch 4k stuff and "DucksTakeOff_2160p50.x264.CRF24.mkv" without framedrops?!?!?! and its all smooth..
Before it was struggling to get 1 or 2 fps, if at all...

What happened??? its like a whole new world for me.. the quality is, aahhrgh, i dont know, overhelming?!?!

i have an gtx670, and therefor no native 4k support or HEVC..
Why does it work now?? Its using my GPU not the CPU also.. so thats good..

I even tested an 1080p x265 HEVC encoding and it worked like charm, and the gpu was doing teh work...

i dont know why, or how, but its working now flawless for me.. Never ever could do 4k before with my madvr setup..now i can...

Am i wrong or does teh gtx670 has 4k support??

I did do a lot of work on downscaling in general lately, some of which served to improve performance. I'm not sure, maybe that's what helped. Or maybe the old drivers worked very badly for you.

[madshi]

Here's one more comparison, which shows that sometimes SSIM is *much* better than Bicubic150:

Bicubic150 - - | - - SSIM - - | - - original - - | - - (make sure your browser doesn't zoom these!)

This mostly only applies to high quality high res sources, though. I believe for downscaling after doubling Bicubic150 will almost always be pretty much the same quality as SSIM.

[QBhd]

Originally Posted by madshi

Your own choice like aufkrawall? Or against your will like kasper93?

Sorry, we both posted very close together and I did not quote either... Preference for me, not "against my will". However, that was a nice way to phrase that.



edit:

Originally Posted by madshi

Here's one more comparison, which shows that sometimes SSIM is *much* better than Bicubic150:

Bicubic150 - - | - - SSIM - - | - - original - - | - - (make sure your browser doesn't zoom these!)

This mostly only applies to high quality high res sources, though. I believe for downscaling after doubling Bicubic150 will almost always be pretty much the same quality as SSIM.

Hmmm.... Maybe I will use SSIM for my case 2) and Bicubic150 for 1) (1&2 listed above)... will need to pop in a 1080p remux to test that

QB

[Manni]

Originally Posted by madshi

3D enabled and display set to "auto".

Please create a debug log with v0.90.10, maybe I can see something.

Fixed in 0.90.10