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20th July 2015, 23:00 | #31981 | Link |
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I love the smooth contours of super-xbr
I think we've gone a little overboard obsessed with sharpening. Doubling already increases sharpness and super-xbr needs no enhancement IMO. Would it be possible to add super-xbr at 75 to this comparison? Super-xbr definitely looks sharp, and when you compare it to the original, it retains the blinding white brightness reflected from the castle. |
20th July 2015, 23:09 | #31982 | Link |
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madshi are you familiar with the DarbeeVision Darblet used amongst HT enthusiasts? I've been quite happy with the sharpening it provides (at low strength). I wonder if there's any similar algorithm available to run on the GPU?
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20th July 2015, 23:41 | #31984 | Link |
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I seem to get periodic frame drop (by either 1 or 2 frame on osd) when playing interlaced material in dx11 windowed mode. I don't seem to notice all(or any) the frame drop by eye(which is normal I think, consider it is 60fps video.., don't have that kind of eye xd). Would this be a osd glitch or real frame drop?
It is fine in dx11 fse or dx9. I had play with all the vync/seperate device options, but none helps. Configuration is win8.1, Amd dxva de-interlance, reclock, 30i material, 59/60hz screen. Tested in recent .14 and .20. Sent from my 306SH Last edited by baii; 20th July 2015 at 23:44. |
21st July 2015, 00:00 | #31986 | Link |
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I have found a bug with 30 fps content with the latest .20 build. OSD reported render times are well under 2 ms (which is impossible for my hardware specs: last version reports render times ~28ms for same settings), but cranking up settings will caused dropped frames while the OSD reports <20ms render times. This is a cosmetic bug with no functional problems that I can see. Problem didn't occur in .19 and earlier. No rendering time calculation errors with 24 fps content. Don't have access to any other framerate content to test.
Windows 8.1 x64, mpc-hc x64, madvr x64, LAV filters 65.0. Image upscale jinc ar, chroma bicubic 75 ar. No image doubling. |
21st July 2015, 00:51 | #31988 | Link |
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You may have lost a lot of time writing this, but for a lurker, this is the kind of post I like to read. Images for us to judge, and your comments/POV on this. Definitively a good post. It avoids endless discussions without proof. And it allows us to choose accordingly.
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21st July 2015, 01:21 | #31989 | Link |
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Thanks for the great post, madshi.
However, using 256 neurons for NNEDI3 as "the best option" may not be a good idea. I've recently found an example where 256 neurons cause a very notable artifact: Original -|- NNEDI3 128 -|- NNEDI3 256 See a tiny white vertical line above Ramzesss word right between "m" and "z" ? It's not present on the original image, nor with any neuron count below 256. |
21st July 2015, 01:40 | #31990 | Link | |
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21st July 2015, 02:11 | #31991 | Link | |
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It's just me or the sxbr+sres = nnedi3+sres? I can't spot a difference in a still, so in motion it should be even harder. How many passes did you use for SuperRes in these examples? EDIT: even bilinear+sres is almost identical to the others, with slightly worse aliasing! Last edited by Hyllian; 21st July 2015 at 02:42. |
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21st July 2015, 02:54 | #31992 | Link | |
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see? that's what i've been using for (S-XBR+SuperRes) ever since the feature got introduced. I don't know why there are these NEDDI3 256 Fanatics/cult out there who always claim the holy grail for Picture Quality when the Madshi's Screenshots speaks for themselves. When performance is still important before Picture Quality (where NNEDI3 really lacks and burns precious GPU resources). S-XBR+SuperRes = NNEDI3+SuperRes but very light on GPU load, Ergo you can build a HTPC with a cheaper GPU (less heat and power consumption) but at the same time still can use better MAdvr settings like this time (S-XBR+SuperRes). Last edited by RyuzakiL; 21st July 2015 at 02:58. |
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21st July 2015, 03:30 | #31993 | Link |
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TYVM for the comparisons, I'll try my luck this week with running the same procedure but with NNEDI16/32 and 3@0.42 LQ SR in .15 coz comparing NNEDI256 to über-sharp LQ SR in .19 is kinda putting things out of context IMVHO, only one way to find out anyway and your testing procedure makes a heck lot of sense indeed gg
You don't seem too keen on telling us what SR does in mVR but it's not a "dumb" sharpener as it would appear? Does it take previous frames in account like the vmotion stuff and as the name implies? Last edited by leeperry; 21st July 2015 at 03:47. |
21st July 2015, 03:31 | #31994 | Link |
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Bilateral+JincAR+SuperRes4/0.66 from 1080pHQ Source
It seems the said config is very good PQ/Performance wise for processing 1080pHQ Source.
I'm really interested on doing Madshi's Format of Picture/Screenshot comparison series. But for the life of me, i cannot grab a screenshot on DX11 FSE10bit mode? or i should switch to DX11 Windowed FS 8bit mode? |
21st July 2015, 05:10 | #31996 | Link | |
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If working with MPC-HC these procedures will enable you to capture specific frames. I have to believe that there is a way to seek by frame in most video players.. This procedure saves the onscreen image assuming you are *not* in exclusive mode.
This procedure saves the image from the MPC-HC image renderer and not from MadVR
Last edited by MistahBonzai; 21st July 2015 at 05:28. |
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21st July 2015, 08:11 | #31998 | Link |
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For PotPlayer Video==>Video Capture.... Or just use Ctrl+Alt+E to grab the screen frame. Might want to go the menu route first to make sure you save as bmp or png. Ctrl+E will grab the source frame.
QB
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21st July 2015, 09:02 | #31999 | Link | ||||||||||||||
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Thanks for the positive feedback, guys! Happy to hear you like my comparison post!
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I'm not fully sure yet if the split with "image enhancements" and "upscaling refinement" will stay as it is. I've had the idea that I could probably modify FineSharp and AdaptiveSharpen so that they have the same effectiveness/strength when applied after upscaling compared to before upscaling. Sharpening after upscaling generally looks better. So it's possible the "image enhancements" may run after scaling in a future version, too (maybe with a trade quality option to perform it before scaling). But I don't know for sure yet. Quote:
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That said, yes, some algorithms to clean up bad sources would be great. But I prefer to do one thing right first, before switching to the next thing. Quote:
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> It's a frame-delayed unsharp mask. So if there's no > movement in the scene, it's just plain unsharp mask. > If there's a lot of movement, it's a random artifact > generator. If there's a little movement, like on a slow > pan or a helicopter shot, it's an unsharp mask that is > more aggressive on one side of a detail and less > aggressive on the other side, adding a little shadow. So for still images, it should be somewhat similar to AdaptiveSharpen. One big disadvantage of current Darbee implementations is that if you let the display upscale (e.g. 4K display), Darbee is applied before upscaling. That's like applying AdaptiveSharpen in "image enhancements". It's effective, but ugly. You'd get better quality doing it after upscaling. But AFAIK current Darbee implementations don't have the power to do 4K. Anyway, personally I'm not really a fan of the look that unsharp mask style sharpening produces. To my eyes it looks like fat lines get even fatter. It seems to "bloat up" the image somehow, adding more contrast and pop, but making the image look more artificial. You can see some of that in my screenshot comparison post when comparing AdaptiveSharpen to FineSharp. The look which AdaptiveSharpen produces is typical for unsharp mask style sharpening. Quote:
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Anyway, Shiandow has estimated that waifu2x is probably at least 100x slower than NNEDI3-256, maybe more. So it's not suitable for real time video playback in the next 7 years at least, I would say. Quote:
http://madVR.com/doom9/temp/CastleSuperXbr.png This specific geometrical configuration seems to be difficult. Even waifu2x has problems with this. Not on this specific tower, though. But if you look at the smaller right most tower, waifu2x is not perfect with the same geometrical configuration there. NNEDI3 handles that better, but NNEDI3 has small problems in other areas. The screenshots were created with 8 SuperRes passes. Quote:
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0) Let e.g. super-xbr upscale the OI (original image). Result: UI (upscaled image). 1) Downscale the UI back to the same size as the OI (using: LQ=Bilinear; HQ=Bicubic). 2) Substract the OI from the downscaled UI, which gives us a sort of "error" image (EI) in the size of the OI. 3) Modify the UI in a clever way, by making use of the EI, to reduce the error. Steps 1) to 3) is one SuperRes pass. If you want 2 SuperRes passes, you simply perform 1,2,3) twice. All the magic happens in 3). And this code totally changed from the old to the new SuperRes algorithm. The other parts mostly remained unchanged. The old SuperRes code introduced aliasing and ringing, which is why Shiandow had added extra anti-aliasing and anti-ringing algos. The new SuperRes algorithm doesn't (or shouldn't) produce aliasing, anymore, and not as much ringing as the old code, so that's why there's no anti-ringing and anti-aliasing code in the new algorithm, anymore. I did add my own anti-ringing code in, though. Quote:
I've done all stuff in windowed mode. I've selected a ground truth image which in 100% view exactly fit in the media player in windowed mode, to make things easier for me. The ground truth is already a downscaled image from an even larger original image. So I could choose the exact size I wanted to have for the ground truth. Please make sure you downscale using madVR with AR (anti-ringing). Don't downscale using an image/photo editor, unless it also has AR (I'm not aware of any that has). Ok, thanks. Last edited by madshi; 21st July 2015 at 09:46. |
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21st July 2015, 09:02 | #32000 | Link | |
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direct compute, dithering, error diffusion, madvr, ngu, nnedi3, quality, renderer, scaling, uhd upscaling, upsampling |
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