Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - DXVA!

[moshmothma]

Originally Posted by madshi

Hey guys,

I have to correct myself. I claimed earlier that it's not possible to get full BTB and WTW output with VMR/EVR with an ATI card. I was wrong. Feeding VMR/EVR with RGB32 does make BTB and WTW work. I'm sorry for the confusion.

Hmm, I am using rgb32 with no btb or wtw. How did u accomplish this madshi? thx

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by leeperry

never got any tearing with any EVR/VMR/HR flavor in windowed modes only(I can't stand the exclusive stuff where all the menus vanish )

Remember there is a difference between using a software player in a window, and using it fullscreen with VMR9 windowed.
Leak was referring to the first, and you are referring to the last.
There are 3 VMR9 possible modes of operation (More details here):
-VMR9 Windowed
-VMR9 Windowless
-VMR9 Renderless

You can use all this 3 modes in a window, or full screen, but only renderless allow the fullscreen exclusive access mode, like the games do.
The question is if madshi tearing is when using mpc-hc in a window (when you have the borders, menus, title bar, etc. showing) and when activate fullscreen it disappears, or if it disappears only when he selects the exclusive access mode.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

Remember there is a difference between using a software player in a window, and using it fullscreen with VMR9 windowed.
Leak was referring to the first, and you are referring to the last.
There are 3 VMR9 possible modes of operation (More details here):
-VMR9 Windowed
-VMR9 Windowless
-VMR9 Renderless

You can use all this 3 modes in a window, or full screen, but only renderless allow the fullscreen exclusive access mode, like the games do.
The question is if madshi tearing is when using mpc-hc in a window (when you have the borders, menus, title bar, etc. showing) and when activate fullscreen it disappears, or if it disappears only when he selects the exclusive access mode.

oh yeah, well I still rest my case. I've never had any tearing in any mode(windowed/windowless/renderless/exclusive D3D), except for regular EVR on XP(as it relies on Aero natively to fix the VSYNC)

anyhow, from what I've seen only HR does realtime jitter correction...the other software renderers simply drop frames if they're too late

[clsid]

Originally Posted by ADude

SPDIFER is just a subset of AC3FILTER, in other words, a simplified version that just outputs to SPDIF:

http://ac3filter.net/projects/spdifer

Vorbis loads a filter that converts to PCM and also AC3FILTER itself that takes the PCM and outputs it to the spdif.

SPDIFER is used literally hundreds of times by my HT-PC and MPC to playback videos with never one problem.

PS VLC includes internal selection of multiple audio streams, and can select either the Vorbis or the DTS stream in this file, but cannot pass the DTS intact to the spdif.

I already know what SPDIFER is, that was not my question. Don't output to SPDIF and you'll probably discover that things start working again. Why stream switching doesn't work with SPDIF? I don't know, I don't have a receiver myself. You could try with ffdshow, maybe using the same filter for all audio formats works better with SPDIF. ffdshow can do AC3/DTS passthrough, decoding/processing, and even re-encoding to AC3.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

Remember that reclock's bit exact mode is only internal, it means he's outputting what he receives at the input. If you don't use Kernel Streaming for PCM, and keep using DirectSound, it will not bypass kmixer, even if it shows bit exact...

Yes, I understood that. My only reason for giving ReClock another try is that I want to check whether I can get Kernel Streaming to work without resampling.

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

Let me try to understand, you are talking about FullScreen mode, when you select Direct3D Fullscreen in VMR9 Renderless or EVR Custom? or just when you switch from MPC-HC in a window to fullscreen?

"Direct3D Fullscreen". Simple fullscreen doesn't help.

Originally Posted by Leak

It's just not 100% possible to get tearing-free video in a window UNLESS you're using a video overlay, which VMR9 most of the time doesn't.

Maybe I didn't express myself clearly. I'm not talking about tearing in a window. I'm getting tearing even in normal fullscreen mode. It goes away only when using MPC HC's special "Direct3D fullscreen" mode.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm getting tearing even in normal fullscreen mode. It goes away only when using MPC HC's special "Direct3D fullscreen" mode.

and what are your mobo/graphic cards again ?
does GPU-Z say "16X PCI-E@16X" ?

[madshi]

Originally Posted by moshmothma

Hmm, I am using rgb32 with no btb or wtw. How did u accomplish this madshi? thx

Does your display want PC levels (black at 0) or video levels (black at 16)? In the first case there's no way to get BTB/WTW. In the 2nd case you have to set ffdshow to RGB32 and in the "RGB conversion" tab under "contrast" you have to use "Full range".

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by madshi

I want to check whether I can get Kernel Streaming to work without resampling.

Also note that some sound cards drivers don't accept 24bit pcm, only 16bit or 32bit. So, if when using KS with 24bit pcm you get no sound try using ffdshow audio to output 32bit pcm. This happenned to me and it's not a reclock bug. With other renderers this is not an issue because kmixer resamples and changes the bit depth to 16bit...

Originally Posted by madshi

It goes away only when using MPC HC's special "Direct3D fullscreen" mode.

What's your OS? Have you tryed with an NVidia card?

[Mercury_22]

Originally Posted by Beliyaal

This is because of incorrect timing of the frames output by the decoder. It happens both with the internal and external Decoder DMO. It might be that the splitter is giving the decoder incorrect times?

Anyway I have implemented a workaround for this in my patch for the Custom EVR.

It's undoubtedly the splitter because when using other splitter everything it's ok !

P.S. Also the subtitles are flickering with internal splitter and vc-1 / DMO !

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

and what are your mobo/graphic cards again ?

Mobo: AOpen i945GTm-VHL (MoDT).
Graphics card: Club3D 3850 and Gigabyte 2600 Pro

Originally Posted by leeperry

does GPU-Z say "16X PCI-E@16X" ?

Yes. 53GB/s bandwidth. Should be plenty.

Originally Posted by yesgrey3

What's your OS? Have you tryed with an NVidia card?

XPSP2 Professional. Had a XFX 7600GS once. But that's long time ago. I *think* I had the same problems with it, too, but I don't remember for sure. I also once had a Fujitsu-Siemens mainboard. Same problems, as far as I remember...

[tetsuo55]

Originally Posted by madshi

Does your display want PC levels (black at 0) or video levels (black at 16)? In the first case there's no way to get BTB/WTW. In the 2nd case you have to set ffdshow to RGB32 and in the "RGB conversion" tab under "contrast" you have to use "Full range".

I'm not sure i understand what you guys are talking about.
Commercial video data does not contain BTB/WTW

BTB/WTW is only needed for desktop

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Mobo: AOpen i945GTm-VHL (MoDT).
Graphics card: Club3D 3850 and Gigabyte 2600 Pro

Yes. 53GB/s bandwidth. Should be plenty.

humm tearing is neither normal or acceptable!
you might try to fiddle around with your motherboard BIOS(disabling all unused ports, disable/enable spread spectrum etc), or simply change to a newer model...you could try with a cheap GA-EP31-DS3L it works perfectly fine, and is a complete steal

[madshi]

Originally Posted by tetsuo55

I'm not sure i understand what you guys are talking about.
Commercial video data does not contain BTB/WTW

Sometimes it does. E.g. I've once read that a studio intentionally used BTB in a specific scene to make a specific red tone appear "correct". Anyway, it doesn't really matter whether BTB/WTW is actually used by DVD/Blu-Ray discs. Potentially it *could* be used, but a properly calibrated display would hide most of the BTB/WTW data. ISF calibrators usually calibrate so that one step below BTB is still barely different to BTB. And calibration test discs intentionally contain BTB/WTW information to allow for proper display calibration. With ffdshow setup as I said above, you do get BTB/WTW with a TV/projector which supports it. That means if you turn TV brightness too high, you will see the BTB information in a calibration DVD. If you let ATI do the YCBCr -> RGB conversion, you won't see the calibration DVD's BTB information.

Originally Posted by leeperry

humm tearing is neither normal or acceptable!
you might try to fiddle around with your motherboard BIOS(disabling all unused ports, disable/enable spread spectrum etc), or simply change to a newer model...you could try with a cheap GA-EP31-DS3L it works perfectly fine, and is a complete steal

Well, with all my past hardware, tearing was normal. Of course it's not acceptable. But Direct3D fullscreen mode fixes it for me. So I'm not in need to change my hardware right now. BTW, I have a mobile CPU because I hate noise. So I can't just use any mainboard.

[tetsuo55]

Originally Posted by madshi

Sometimes it does. E.g. I've once read that a studio intentionally used BTB in a specific scene to make a specific red tone appear "correct". Anyway, it doesn't really matter whether BTB/WTW is actually used by DVD/Blu-Ray discs. Potentially it *could* be used, but a properly calibrated display would hide most of the BTB/WTW data. ISF calibrators usually calibrate so that one step below BTB is still barely different to BTB. And calibration test discs intentionally contain BTB/WTW information to allow for proper display calibration. With ffdshow setup as I said above, you do get BTB/WTW with a TV/projector which supports it. That means if you turn TV brightness too high, you will see the BTB information in a calibration DVD. If you let ATI do the YCBCr -> RGB conversion, you won't see the calibration DVD's BTB information.

Totally forgot those out of spec dvd's exist.
You're right!

[mark0077]

These methods of stopping tearing.... I still don't see them as being a perfect answer if your looking for smooth playback. OK no tearing but it doesn't mean the frames from your video content are synced with your refresh rate correctly....

Maybe reclock is the only answer to tearing + proper syncing?

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by madshi

XPSP2 Professional.

I was thinking that would be that... and let me guess, have you ever opened and initialized the Windows media player after upgrading to SP2?

I use ZoomPlayer and mpc-hc. When I had XP SP2, sometimes I had several problems when playing my media files. After a few minutes of playing, the video and audio started loosing sync. One time, I tryed reinstalling the SP2, and it fixed it. After a while it appeared again. I reinstalled SP2 and it fixed it again. I then realized that the problem was the Windows Media Player. It could not be used, not even initialized (after the SP2 update, if we run WMP always appear a brief tutorial of settings, this must be allways closed). I even had removed the shortcut from my quick launch bar because I could click it by mistake.
I don't know if it would fix your tearing, but you could always give it a try and re-install SP2. Currently I use SP3, but before you try with SP3 do it with SP2. That, I am certain worked for me, SP3 I don't know. Now I realize that I should try re-installing SP3, because the last time I saw a movie the jerkiness was back... Yes, due to VC1 decoder, I have updated to WMP11, and have opened it...

Originally Posted by tetsuo55

Commercial video data does not contain BTB/WTW

Remember that commercial video is YUV, and our displays are RGB. Only Y is limited to 16-235, UV is limited to 1-254, so, when you convert to RGB, you could get RGB lower than [16,16,16] and higher than [235,235,235] even if the YUV data is inside spec...

Originally Posted by tetsuo55

Totally forgot those out of spec dvd's exist.

And yes, some dvd's could have Y values out of those, but they are not out of spec, because it's not a hard limit, it's just reference values...

[yesgrey]

Originally Posted by madshi

And calibration test discs intentionally contain BTB/WTW information to allow for proper display calibration.

Yes, it's the easiest way of knowing if our brightness is correctly setup... Too high, you see the black bellow the reference black, too low, you don't the the less darker blacks above the reference black.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Well, with all my past hardware, tearing was normal. Of course it's not acceptable. But Direct3D fullscreen mode fixes it for me. So I'm not in need to change my hardware right now. BTW, I have a mobile CPU because I hate noise. So I can't just use any mainboard.

all I can say is that my previous mobo was a cheap 945PL from MSI, and I used MSI 8600GT/PNY 8600GTS/Gigabyte 2600Pro on it and I never got any tearing.
a wild guess would be that your mobo BIOS is either not properly configured, or badly optimized by the manufacturer himself.

any change if you set the PCI-E speed to 115/120/125Hz ?

Originally Posted by mark0077

reclock is the only answer to tearing + proper syncing

sure is

[madshi]

Originally Posted by leeperry

all I can say is that my previous mobo was a cheap 945PL from MSI, and I used MSI 8600GT/PNY 8600GTS/Gigabyte 2600Pro on it and I never got any tearing.

Did you use the secondary graphics card output port, like I do? But this is really getting OT. We should continue this dicussion in PM, if you want to.

[leeperry]

Originally Posted by madshi

Did you use the secondary graphics card output port, like I do? But this is really getting OT. We should continue this dicussion in PM, if you want to.

CRT on primary, DVI pj on secondary and switching back and forth between the two.
well maybe you could create another topic ? I really wonder where that tearing comes from, and the more testimonials the better....probably video data is not copied fast enough by the chipset, so your only option is to get a new mobo...