madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[nevcairiel]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Does this mean that AMD users should enable the trade quality for performance options "don't use 'copyback' for DXVA deinterlacing (Intel, NVidia)" and "don't use 'copyback' for DXVA decoding (Intel, NVidia)"? And the reason it doesn't mention AMD is that no quality is lost?

Those options should not do anything at all on AMD, thats why it has the vendor tags behind it.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by nevcairiel

Those options should not do anything at all on AMD, thats why it has the vendor tags behind it.

Thanks. So on AMD copyback is never used?

[Warner306]

For anyone using LAV Filters and DXVA2 Copyback, the latest LAV Filters (0.64) contains improvements in DXVA2 decoding. I downloaded the new filters and discovered I was able to turn up my madVR settings while actually lowering the rendering queue. I consider this a considerable performance upgrade.

[bcec]

I have a basic question.

If I have am doing 1080->2160 upscaling, it is basically perfect image doubling right? If I have image doubling enabled, which uses NNEDI3 with16 neurons, I don't quite understand why image upscaling settings also affect the performance.

I thought if I have perfect image doubling, only image doubling setting would be used, and it doesn't matter what I select in image upscaling section. So why does image upscaling selection affect the performance, when I have image doubling enabled and doing 1080p->2160p?

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by bcec

I have a basic question.

If I have am doing 1080->2160 upscaling, it is basically perfect image doubling right? If I have image doubling enabled, which uses NNEDI3 with16 neurons, I don't quite understand why image upscaling settings also affect the performance.

I thought if I have perfect image doubling, only image doubling setting would be used, and it doesn't matter what I select in image upscaling section. I guess I don't quite understand how image doubling and image upscaling play along with each other.

If you are only doubling the luma then the chroma also needs to get bigger somehow. Chroma scaling only applies for the conversion from 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 to 4:4:4. Image scaling is used to bring the chroma up to the target resolution after doubling the luma.

[bcec]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

If you are only doubling the luma then the chroma also needs to get bigger somehow. Chroma scaling only applies for the conversion from 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 to 4:4:4. Image scaling is used to bring the chroma up to the target resolution after doubling the luma.

ah, that makes sense. thanks for the explanation.

Is there a noticeable difference between using Jinc3AR vs Lancsoz3AR for upscaling the chrome portion, when NNEDI3 was used to upscale luma? I see quite a bit performance difference between the two.

[Asmodian]

Originally Posted by bcec

ah, that makes sense. thanks for the explanation.

Is there a noticeable difference between using Jinc3AR vs Lancsoz3AR for upscaling the chrome portion, when NNEDI3 was used to upscale luma? I see quite a bit performance difference between the two.

Short answer: No. Even Catmull-Rom looks great for chroma to me. If doing a perfect 2x upscale I think going down to catmull-rom for chroma and image upscaling is perfectly reasonable.

edit: I should add that madshi has stated that Jinc is probably a waste if using image doubling, even if not at a perfect 2x scaling.

[bcec]

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Short answer: No. Even Catmull-Rom looks great for chroma to me. If doing a perfect 2x upscale I think going down to catmull-rom for chroma and image upscaling is perfectly reasonable.

edit: I should add that madshi has stated that Jinc is probably a waste if using image doubling, even if not at a perfect 2x scaling.

Thanks a lot mate!

[madshi]

Originally Posted by StinDaWg

So you can't replicate madVR lowering render time after exiting out of, and then back into fullscreen?

Couldn't reproduce it with a quick test.

Originally Posted by a8213711

I have in MadVR http://i58.tinypic.com/dqr89e.jpg and when I start a .wtv with 25fps I get display at 59.9Hz, then I press alt+tab to go on Windows Media Center (Win8.1) and then again alt+tab on MPC-HC and this time I get display at 50Hz and the image is more saturated.
What should I do?

Alt+Tab should make no difference. Are you sure that your TV/GPU supports 1080p25 output? Often only 1080p50 is supported. If you enter an invalid mode, the madVR behaviour can be "weird". You should only enter modes which are actually available by the OS/GPU driver.

Originally Posted by MysteryX

I'm jus thinking about something. Why do the video profiles have to be configured manually? Thinking about it, it could be auto-configured pretty easily.

Let's say I'm running with SVP and madVR has 16.6ms to render each frame. What I would manually do is open each resolution of video (288p, 360p, 480p, 720p, 1080p) in Widescreen, press CTRL+J and create a profile that brings the rendering time as close to 16.6ms as possible.

madVR could do these tests and build these profiles itself.

or... perhaps even better, it could try various settings until it gets close to its maximum allowed rendering time, and cache these results. If there are dropped frames, it would automatically lower the settings, if rendering time gets lower, it would automatically higher the settings.

Is something like this in the road-map?

Dynamically switching between different profiles, depending on how high the rendering times are, is a "dangerous" thing to do. Basically it could happen that madVR would then switch back & forth between two different profiles all the time. And the switching itself costs a bit performance, as well.

I have all sorts of ideas and plans for madVR, but I'm not ready to talk about it now.

Originally Posted by James Freeman

Yes! there is an option in the "Adjust Desktop Color Setting" menu for Limited and Full ranges.

How cool is that?
Took'em 10 years but still.... thanks.

Finally!

Originally Posted by khanmein

anyone please kindly help how to fixed the error?

This is a crash in the NVidia OpenCL driver. Not sure why it crashes. You could try reinstalling the NVidia driver or something. If you can't get it to work, you may have to disable NNEDI3, which will then probably "fix" this crash.

Originally Posted by IronRush

When I open a video file in windowed mode, the file is always same resolution than default, nothing change.
Madvr calibration tab I set 1080p24 and 1080p60.
I think normal if I open a 480p file, it need to open with 1080p resolution for properly upscalling, no?

The media player decides in which size the video is rendered. madVR does what the media player wants. So you need to look for an option to start in fullscreen (or something similar) in your media player.

Originally Posted by Fullmetal Encoder

Has anyone else had any persistent issues with UAC pop-ups upon running a video asking if I want to allow madHcCtrl.exe to make changes to my computer?

Strange. madHcCtrl doesn't really do anything funny, except maybe trying to find madVR instances running somewhere on your (W)LAN, if you have network functionality enabled. You could try disabling network functionality and see if that removes this weird Windows behaviour.

Originally Posted by egandt

I found that enabling the 3Dlut help with the color and gamma, but introduces a large number of artifacts when watching shows with large amounts of constant flat color for instance Anime (Sky, faces, buildings, ...), and close ups of faces. For now I have disabled it while looking for the cause and a solution.
I used the default which contained about 1800 samples to create the 3Dlut, I'm thinking of trying with more samples, but also wanted to ask is this expected?

Try updating to the latest Calman Beta/RC. They've added some bugfixes to create better 3dluts. The issue is probably in the 3dlut itself, now in madVR.

Originally Posted by romulous

please give an option to disable 'on top' for the madVR settings dialog.

Ok, will add it to my to do list.

Originally Posted by Patrik G

what an amazing video renderer this is!

i just discovered it 2 weeks ago just when i had bought the new Pioneer BDP LX58 blu ray player.
that blu ray player was a waste of money and i sold it right away when i compared the picture quality with madvr.

with a calibrated 9200 patches 3D LUT the picture quality is amazing.
the LX58 player doesnt even come close in details and color sharpness in the picture.

so you know that you have the best picture quality money can buy with this solution

Glad you like it! The other users did make some good suggestions to optimize your settings, though.

Originally Posted by asubert

My video is starting in full screen, it is not an issue. But it is not starting in exclusive mode. When i use alt+j, it show me i am in windowed mode, not exclusive. Also the blue seek bar of the exclusive mode is not there in mpc.

Most probably "something" (e.g. some other window) is in front of the video rendering area. I can say for sure if you create & upload a debug log with the OSD (Ctrl+J) turned on.

Originally Posted by 6233638

Do you have "delay playback start until render queue is full" and "delay playback start after seeking, too" enabled?

I get very variable audio sync without having them selected.

Originally Posted by huhn

i hear about sync issue with madVR quite a lot.

Really? madVR carefully present frames synced to the graph master clock. I don't see how madVR could produce any audio sync issue, regardless of any settings. FWIW, the user who reported this issue a few posts ago in the meanwhile found out that there isn't really any audio sync issue between Jinc and NNEDI3 for him, after all, and that the audio sync issue is limited to one specific video file.

Originally Posted by TheRyuu

Believe I found a bug in madvr. It does not appear to be releasing its system timer (tick rate) hold on unload.

Correct. If you want this fixed, could you please create a bug tracker report? Personally, I don't find this very important because the 16ms timer is idiotic, anyway. Maybe it made sense 10 years ago. But with today's PCs 16ms timer resolution simply makes no sense, whatsoever. Of course that's only my personal opinion. I do consider it "not nice" that madVR doesn't restore the original timer resolution, though.

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

Can madVR handle MVC MKV 3D files that are made with Makemkv?

Simple remuxes? Or side-by-side encodings? "No" for simple remuxes.

Originally Posted by EmuAGR

Was this implemented/fixed already? I'm having a lot of issues with this lately, and not only with screenshots.

What do you mean "with this, and not only with screenshots"? Your quote is specific to screenshots. So I don't understand the "not only with screenshots" part. Anyway, nothing has changed so far. It's on my to do list, but not with an ultra high priority.

Originally Posted by THX-UltraII

Did you ever managed to get madVR as video processor work with Stereoscopic Player?

madVR is not meant to be used as a video processor, at least not as this time.

Originally Posted by hannes69

I have a question concerning the Display Switcher: I have made four custom resolutions by using CRU Utility to play videos with fps of 23.976, 24.000, 25.000 and 29.970. Windows is silly so there is no possibility to distinguish between the 23.976 and 24.000 preset

Ideally those should be mapped to 23, 24, 25 and 29 Hertz. That way madVR would be able to properly assign them to the correct framerates.

Originally Posted by hannes69

What would help me is the implementation of this logic (C style):

if (framerate == 23.976fps) display mode = 720p48;
if (framerate == 24.000fps) display mode = 720p72;

This is currently not possible, except maybe by using file name tagging for those 24.000fps movies. Some day I'm going to change the display mode switcher logic. But for now it is what it is.

Originally Posted by hannes69

BTW time to convince madshi to accept donations so he can focus more on madvr, earning the money with this product - no more need to focus on other things

That would be awesome, but not very realistic. My commercial projects produce a nice income. Getting the same income from donations is next to impossible.

Originally Posted by Andy o

Turned out to be every 15 minutes to the second. Apparently the current version of raptr (AMD Gaming Evolved) is doing something that causes that stutter every 15 minutes.

Ouch!

Originally Posted by oddball

So does nobody know how to set the display modes so that 1080p content is sent unscaled to the 4K TV (allow the TV to do the scaling) and 4K content is sent @4K? "1080p23, 2160p30" results in 2160p content being downscaled to 1080p30. Just curious why this is occurring.

When looking for the best matching display mode, madVR puts the highest priority on matching refresh rates. The reason for that is that a mismatch in the frame rate is a bigger problem than having to up/downscale. So if the movie is 24fps, 1080p23 is a better match than 2160p30, because when using 2160p30 you'd get 3:2 pulldown judder. Use "1080p23, 2160p23", then madVR should switch modes just the way you want it.

Originally Posted by makz

Hi, I have some problem with MPC-HC and Madvr 3DLut. Trying on my Dell 2312. I create madvr .3dl and all fine, but there is differnce in measurments HCFR between madTPG and MPC-HC+madvr. My problem with rendering 100% color with 3dlut (Dell 2312 has oversatturated native green).

Weird. How did you test this with MPC-HC+madVR? HCFR can only use madTPG to show test patterns, not MPC-HC+madVR. So you had to use different test patterns for MPC-HC+madVR, right?

So you get the correct/expected results when using madTPG? And incorrect results with MPC-HC+madVR? Is there any difference between enabling/disabling the 3dlut in MPC-HC+madVR? Maybe the 3dlut is simply not applied at all when using MPC-HC+madVR? Or is it applied, but somehow incorrectly? That is important to find out.

Originally Posted by Remicade

I don't understand why I see all bars in AVS HD 709 (1- Black Clipping.mp4) when I choose in madVR/devices/properties 16-235 and only 17 and above when I choose 0-255 and raise brightness control at 100. It seems illogical, my graphic card output 0-255.

Those numbers "16-235" and "0-255" tell you which color codes are used for black and white. When using "16-235", black is sent with 16, and white with 235. In this setup, because black is 16, you can send colors which are darker than black. This is called BTB ("blacker than black"). When using "0-255", black is sent as 0. So it's impossible to send any BTB information. BTB would be negative values, which isn't supported by DVI/HDMI. Those bars from 0-15 in "Black Clipping.mp4" are BTB information. So they can only be sent to the display when using 16-235.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

The patches HCFR generates using madTPG are limited range.

madTPG expects the calibration software to always send TV levels = limited range. So basically HCFR has to send "black" as 16. This is just a communication rule between the calibration software and madTPG, though. madTPG uses the madVR settings to actually display those test patterns. So if madVR is configured to output PC levels, madTPG will output "black" as 0, just like madVR does. Which means that madTPG and madVR (+ any media player) should produce identical results.

Originally Posted by detmek

madshi, then why DXVA scaler won't work with RGB on my Intel GT1 GPU (Pentium G3220)?

We were talking about RGB *output*, not *input*. DXVA scalers don't support RGB input. But some support RGB output.

Originally Posted by Asmodian

Thanks. So on AMD copyback is never used?

Correct.

[madshi]

madVR v0.87.14 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* madTPG: fixed "madVR_Get/SetSelected3dlut" API
* madTPG: added "madVR_Enable3dlut" API
* madTPG: network search is a bit more extensive/agressive now
* fixed: madVR network functionality didn't always take WLAN into account
* target rect related change for DVBViewer

Again, only changes for calibration software (ArgyllCMS, Calman, LightSpace) and for DVBViewer. Maybe I'll find some more time for madVR development soon, but I can't say for sure right now...

[Asmodian]

Thanks! Even if it only improvements for calibration software support.

Originally Posted by madshi

madTPG expects the calibration software to always send TV levels = limited range. So basically HCFR has to send "black" as 16. This is just a communication rule between the calibration software and madTPG, though. madTPG uses the madVR settings to actually display those test patterns. So if madVR is configured to output PC levels, madTPG will output "black" as 0, just like madVR does. Which means that madTPG and madVR (+ any media player) should produce identical results.

Yes, I was trying to say that if you then view full range test patterns with MPC-HC that are not flagged full range you can see out of gamma values when using a 3DLUT (the white levels test pattern is a good example).

However, since this wasn't the case for matz I am at a loss. That test has always worked correctly for me.

[Sm3n]

wrong thread.
my bad :/

[SFX]

Is there any way to add calibration settings in the profile? My TV (PDP, Samsung 64F8500) displays 24p and 60p differently. And switch 3dlut manually is inconvenient.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by SFX

Is there any way to add calibration settings in the profile? My TV (PDP, Samsung 64F8500) displays 24p and 60p differently. And switch 3dlut manually is inconvenient.

Allowing profiles for more settings is on my to do list, but it's more difficult to implement for devices, so I can't say how quickly I can implement that.

[SFX]

Originally Posted by madshi

Allowing profiles for more settings is on my to do list, but it's more difficult to implement for devices, so I can't say how quickly I can implement that.

OK. I will wait for new releases. Thank you!

[huhn]

Originally Posted by madshi

Really? madVR carefully present frames synced to the graph master clock. I don't see how madVR could produce any audio sync issue, regardless of any settings. FWIW, the user who reported this issue a few posts ago in the meanwhile found out that there isn't really any audio sync issue between Jinc and NNEDI3 for him, after all, and that the audio sync issue is limited to one specific video file.

some examples:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...l#post31116930

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...l#post29866330

I personally have no issue with sync. every issue I have is in the bug tracker.

[makz]

Originally Posted by madshi

Weird. How did you test this with MPC-HC+madVR? HCFR can only use madTPG to show test patterns, not MPC-HC+madVR. So you had to use different test patterns for MPC-HC+madVR, right?

So you get the correct/expected results when using madTPG? And incorrect results with MPC-HC+madVR? Is there any difference between enabling/disabling the 3dlut in MPC-HC+madVR? Maybe the 3dlut is simply not applied at all when using MPC-HC+madVR? Or is it applied, but somehow incorrectly? That is important to find out.

Weird. How did you test this with MPC-HC+madVR?
- AVSHD 709 patterns+MPC-HC+madvr+3dlut. Measurements were made with a laptop.

So you had to use different test patterns for MPC-HC+madVR, right?
- Yes, but 100% green in rec.709 space should not vary outside the generator and patterns AVSHD 709

So you get the correct/expected results when using madTPG? And incorrect results with MPC-HC+madVR? Is there any difference between enabling/disabling the 3dlut in MPC-HC+madVR? Maybe the 3dlut is simply not applied at all when using MPC-HC+madVR? Or is it applied, but somehow incorrectly? That is important to find out.
- with madTPG all very good. But MPC-HC + madvr - 100% oversatturated. 25,50,75 % correct. (Screenshots were posted)
Applying 3dlut noticeable, but the 100% color incorrect.
Edit Ranges does not change the chromatic. (In madvr i use 0-255. In mpc-hс + AVSHD709 2-Grayscale Steps patterns i see 16-235, as I understand it - all right )

[madshi]

Originally Posted by huhn

some examples:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...l#post31116930

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...l#post29866330

I personally have no issue with sync. every issue I have is in the bug tracker.

I can only guess that those issues are coming from something else. From a technical point of view, the way madVR works, it should not produce sync issues. Unless the user has chosen settings which result in a slide show. In that case madVR shows at least one frame out of 8 frames, to show anything at all. In this "slide show mode" sync can be lost. But as soon as the settings are changed to achieve fluid playback, sync should immediately be restored.

Originally Posted by makz

Yes, but 100% green in rec.709 space should not vary outside the generator and patterns AVSHD 709

with madTPG all very good. But MPC-HC + madvr - 100% oversatturated. 25,50,75 % correct. (Screenshots were posted)
Applying 3dlut noticeable, but the 100% color incorrect.
Edit Ranges does not change the chromatic. (In madvr i use 0-255. In mpc-hс + AVSHD709 2-Grayscale Steps patterns i see 16-235, as I understand it - all right )

Hmmmm... Does the debug OSD (Ctrl+J) say "limited range" or "full range"?

[makz]

Originally Posted by madshi

Hmmmm... Does the debug OSD (Ctrl+J) say "limited range" or "full range"?

When I playing AVSHD 709 disk debug OSD say limited range

[6233638]

Originally Posted by madshi

Really? madVR carefully present frames synced to the graph master clock. I don't see how madVR could produce any audio sync issue, regardless of any settings. FWIW, the user who reported this issue a few posts ago in the meanwhile found out that there isn't really any audio sync issue between Jinc and NNEDI3 for him, after all, and that the audio sync issue is limited to one specific video file.

It may not be madVR's fault, but I've definitely had sync issues without the "delay playback" options enabled.
I have not tested it recently, but it seemed to mainly occur when going from windowed to fullscreen where the refresh rate changes.
I have madVR set to only change when entering full-screen, and use smooth motion when running in a window at 60Hz.

I tried disabling the option again back when I got a GTX970 because I really like how much more responsive it is when you're not waiting for 128 frames to queue up, but I ran into sync problems again.
I was never able to figure out if there was a specific delay or if it only happened some of the time with certain formats for example, but any time I don't have the "delay playback" options enabled, I end up running into sync issues that are corrected by re-enabling it.