A plea for a blu-ray (.sup) subtitle filter

djloewen · 1st April 2009, 01:27

We over at the subtitle board are in desperate need of a new Avisynth filter. We currently have no way encoding blu-rays with the subtitles displayed as they were actually meant to be - the only current options (that I am aware of) are to OCR, or to downconvert them to .IDX for VSfilter.

We are currently able to demux the subtitles as a .sup stream (which seems to be basically the blu-ray equivalent to DVD's idx/sub?). If anyone here has the skill, and would be willing to write a filter to display such a stream as-is, you would be doing the video-encoding community a great service!

Adub · 1st April 2009, 03:34

What exactly do you mean? BD-Rebuilder should produce Blurays with

Quote:

with the subtitles displayed as they were actually meant to be

. Besides, soft subbing will result in a greater quality encode anyways, so why hardsub?

If you are worried about play ability, I believe that Media Player Classic supports Bluray subtitles, and has for a while.

djloewen · 1st April 2009, 03:49

To give an example of a possible use for this, I'll explain what I want to do personally.

I'd like to rip and encode my blu-ray collection as .mkv files. I want to be able to play these .mkv files "anywhere", meaning not only on my computer, but also on media-capable set-top boxes, as well as theoretical handheld devices capable of playing relatively high-bitrate files (I'm expecting these to be around by Christmas). So I certainly can't rely on Meda Player Classic's capabilities, and BD-rebuilder isn't useful to me since I want .mkvs, not discs (unless I misunderstand BD-rebuilder's capabilities).

As to why I would want hard-coded subs in the first place, here are 4 reasons (in order from weakest to strongest):

1.) I am a bit of a perfectionist, and I like the subs to look exactly as they were originally intended (colors/font etc).
2.) I'm not a fan of OCR, it can do a decent job but I get frustrated by the errors that often remain.
3.) For forced subs I would never want them off in the first place, so I might as well hard-code them (quality issues aside).
4.) As I mentioned, I want these files to be compatible with any device that can play H.264/mkv, without having to worry about subtitle filters. For me, this reason trumps all counter-arguments.

Quality isn't so much a concern for me, since I don't care about the final filesize, I'm happy to throw more bits at it to make it look pretty even with the hard subs.

Adub · 1st April 2009, 03:54

Ah, okay. Excellent argument.

Well, for your reasons, I am going to have to agree with you on that one. The only problem is that the Bluray spec is so new that we don't have all of the tools and features that we need when we need them. The only thing that I can think of is to convert to DVD sub/idx using BDSup2Sub and then see if you can hardcode that using VSFilter. You may have some troubles with the resolution, but if you use a combination of Avisynth resizers and possibly the Overlay function, you may be able to make it work.

It may not be great, but it should work.

djloewen · 1st April 2009, 05:33

Yeah, for now that does seem to be the best solution. It's certainly not as clean-looking as the original subtitles though - especially when getting into color gradients, downgrading to the idx/sub 4-color palette isn't the most visually pleasing.

So if anyone wants to whip up a filter to handle .sup files directly... I'll send you a nice Easter basket :P

Wilbert · 10th April 2009, 16:10

Never tried it, but have a look at: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119390

Blue_MiSfit · 16th April 2009, 23:35

I'm trying this right now with JCVD. I'll post results!

Blue_MiSfit · 17th April 2009, 01:14

I got an unable to parse error...

My SUP was ripped straight from the BluRay disc, via eac3to...

???

~MiSfit

Zachs · 7th July 2009, 07:12

I know this thread is old but in case anyone's following it still, I've just released a SUP renderer as what the OP has requested.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148167

1st April 2009, 01:27	#1 \| Link
djloewen Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 112	A plea for a blu-ray (.sup) subtitle filter We over at the subtitle board are in desperate need of a new Avisynth filter. We currently have no way encoding blu-rays with the subtitles displayed as they were actually meant to be - the only current options (that I am aware of) are to OCR, or to downconvert them to .IDX for VSfilter. We are currently able to demux the subtitles as a .sup stream (which seems to be basically the blu-ray equivalent to DVD's idx/sub?). If anyone here has the skill, and would be willing to write a filter to display such a stream as-is, you would be doing the video-encoding community a great service!

1st April 2009, 03:54	#4 \| Link
Adub Fighting spam with a fish Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,699	Ah, okay. Excellent argument. Well, for your reasons, I am going to have to agree with you on that one. The only problem is that the Bluray spec is so new that we don't have all of the tools and features that we need when we need them. The only thing that I can think of is to convert to DVD sub/idx using BDSup2Sub and then see if you can hardcode that using VSFilter. You may have some troubles with the resolution, but if you use a combination of Avisynth resizers and possibly the Overlay function, you may be able to make it work. It may not be great, but it should work. __________________ FAQs:Bond's AVC/H.264 FAQ Site:Adubvideo

16th April 2009, 23:35	#7 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,989	I'm trying this right now with JCVD. I'll post results! __________________ These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)

17th April 2009, 01:14	#8 \| Link
Blue_MiSfit Derek Prestegard IRL Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 5,989	I got an unable to parse error... My SUP was ripped straight from the BluRay disc, via eac3to... ??? ~MiSfit __________________ These are all my personal statements, not those of my employer :)

1st April 2009, 03:49	#3 \| Link
djloewen Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 112	To give an example of a possible use for this, I'll explain what I want to do personally. I'd like to rip and encode my blu-ray collection as .mkv files. I want to be able to play these .mkv files "anywhere", meaning not only on my computer, but also on media-capable set-top boxes, as well as theoretical handheld devices capable of playing relatively high-bitrate files (I'm expecting these to be around by Christmas). So I certainly can't rely on Meda Player Classic's capabilities, and BD-rebuilder isn't useful to me since I want .mkvs, not discs (unless I misunderstand BD-rebuilder's capabilities). As to why I would want hard-coded subs in the first place, here are 4 reasons (in order from weakest to strongest): 1.) I am a bit of a perfectionist, and I like the subs to look exactly as they were originally intended (colors/font etc). 2.) I'm not a fan of OCR, it can do a decent job but I get frustrated by the errors that often remain. 3.) For forced subs I would never want them off in the first place, so I might as well hard-code them (quality issues aside). 4.) As I mentioned, I want these files to be compatible with any device that can play H.264/mkv, without having to worry about subtitle filters. For me, this reason trumps all counter-arguments. Quality isn't so much a concern for me, since I don't care about the final filesize, I'm happy to throw more bits at it to make it look pretty even with the hard subs.

1st April 2009, 05:33	#5 \| Link
djloewen Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 112	Yeah, for now that does seem to be the best solution. It's certainly not as clean-looking as the original subtitles though - especially when getting into color gradients, downgrading to the idx/sub 4-color palette isn't the most visually pleasing. So if anyone wants to whip up a filter to handle .sup files directly... I'll send you a nice Easter basket :P

10th April 2009, 16:10	#6 \| Link
Wilbert Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 6,364	Never tried it, but have a look at: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119390

7th July 2009, 07:12	#9 \| Link
Zachs Suptitle, MediaPlayer.NET Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,721	I know this thread is old but in case anyone's following it still, I've just released a SUP renderer as what the OP has requested. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148167