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Old 19th April 2019, 20:26   #1621  |  Link
Nintendo Maniac 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
ffmpeg -benchmark -i file.mp4 -f null -
Yep that's exactly what I needed, and things are working now!

...except that the ffmpeg build I used seems to use the AOMedia AV1 decoder rather than dav1d. So now the question is where are you getting your ffmpeg builds so that they actually use dav1d?
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Old 19th April 2019, 20:44   #1622  |  Link
Beelzebubu
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Originally Posted by Nintendo Maniac 64 View Post
Yep that's exactly what I needed, and things are working now!

...except that the ffmpeg build I used seems to use the AOMedia AV1 decoder rather than dav1d. So now the question is where are you getting your ffmpeg builds so that they actually use dav1d?
They probably use both, but prefer aom. To use dav1d, try -c:v libdav1d before -i.
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Old 20th April 2019, 13:14   #1623  |  Link
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I'd like to solicit opinions on splitting this thread up, especially into aom, rav1e, dav1d, still image (avif) news, as well as solicitations to get the best quality command lines. I'd like to create a separate AV1 forum entirely at this point, but one megathread does not a forum make.
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Old 20th April 2019, 14:33   #1624  |  Link
SmilingWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benwaggoner View Post
VMAF isn't a still image metric. Has anyone run a correlation for VMAF against subjective testing for still images?
Here you go, based on the TID2013 dataset:
Code:
Actual profile:
Spearman:            | Kendall:
PSNRHA         0.938 | PSNRHA         0.787
PSNRHMA        0.934 | PSNRHMA        0.777
PSNRHVS        0.926 | PSNRHVS        0.766
PSNRHVSM       0.917 | PSNRHVSM       0.749
FSIMc          0.915 | FSIMc          0.742
FSIM           0.911 | FSIM           0.736
WSNR           0.897 | WSNR           0.718
MSSIM          0.887 | MSSIM          0.697
VSNR           0.882 | VSNR           0.690
VMAF_v0.6.1    0.863 | VMAF_v0.6.1    0.675
VMAF_rb_v0.6.3 0.862 | VMAF_rb_v0.6.3 0.674
NQM            0.857 | NQM            0.666
PSNR           0.825 | PSNR           0.624
VIFP           0.815 | VIFP           0.621
PSNRc          0.803 | PSNRc          0.596
SSIM           0.788 | SSIM           0.577

Simple profile:
Spearman:            | Kendall:
PSNRHA         0.953 | PSNRHA         0.818
PSNRHVS        0.951 | PSNRHVS        0.809
FSIM           0.949 | FSIM           0.795
FSIMc          0.947 | FSIMc          0.792
PSNRHVSM       0.938 | PSNRHMA        0.785
PSNRHMA        0.937 | PSNRHVSM       0.780
WSNR           0.933 | WSNR           0.772
PSNR           0.913 | PSNR           0.745
VSNR           0.912 | VSNR           0.731
MSSIM          0.905 | MSSIM          0.720
VIFP           0.897 | VIFP           0.714
VMAF_rb_v0.6.3 0.891 | VMAF_rb_v0.6.3 0.698
VMAF_v0.6.1    0.889 | VMAF_v0.6.1    0.696
PSNRc          0.876 | PSNRc          0.689
NQM            0.875 | NQM            0.681
SSIM           0.837 | SSIM           0.628

Full profile:
Spearman:            | Kendall:
FSIMc          0.851 | FSIMc          0.666
PSNRHA         0.819 | PSNRHA         0.643
PSNRHMA        0.813 | PSNRHMA        0.631
FSIM           0.801 | FSIM           0.629
MSSIM          0.787 | MSSIM          0.607
VMAF_rb_v0.6.3 0.749 | VMAF_rb_v0.6.3 0.564
VMAF_v0.6.1    0.748 | VMAF_v0.6.1    0.563
PSNRc          0.687 | VSNR           0.508
VSNR           0.681 | PSNRHVS        0.507
PSNRHVS        0.654 | PSNRc          0.496
PSNR           0.640 | PSNRHVSM       0.481
SSIM           0.637 | PSNR           0.470
NQM            0.635 | NQM            0.466
PSNRHVSM       0.625 | SSIM           0.463
VIFP           0.608 | VIFP           0.456
WSNR           0.580 | WSNR           0.446
All bitmap images have been converted to raw full range YUV444P with ffmpeg and then measured with the vmafossexec program.
Code:
ffmpeg.exe -i i01_01_1.bmp -vf "scale=flags=accurate_rnd+bitexact+full_chroma_int+full_chroma_inp,format=yuvj444p" i01_01_1.bmp.yuv
vmafossexec.exe yuv444p 512 384 reference_images/i01.bmp.yuv distorted_images/i01_01_1.bmp.yuv model/vmaf_v0.6.1.pkl
vmafossexec.exe yuv444p 512 384 reference_images/i01.bmp.yuv distorted_images/i01_01_1.bmp.yuv model/vmaf_rb_v0.6.3/vmaf_rb_v0.6.3.pkl --ci
I'm also attaching the raw scores, for completeness sake.

A note on how to read the numbers:
from the paper I get the following: a SROCC of 0.95 is considered excellent, 0.90 is good, and 0.85 is barely acceptable.
Attached Files
File Type: txt VMAF_v0.6.1.txt (29.2 KB, 4 views)
File Type: txt VMAF_rb_v0.6.3.txt (29.2 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by SmilingWolf; 20th April 2019 at 19:09.
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Old 20th April 2019, 16:32   #1625  |  Link
bstrobl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
I'd like to solicit opinions on splitting this thread up, especially into aom, rav1e, dav1d, still image (avif) news, as well as solicitations to get the best quality command lines. I'd like to create a separate AV1 forum entirely at this point, but one megathread does not a forum make.
Seems sensible, I would welcome a couple more threads.
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Old 20th April 2019, 17:59   #1626  |  Link
TomV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
I'd like to solicit opinions on splitting this thread up, especially into aom, rav1e, dav1d, still image (avif) news, as well as solicitations to get the best quality command lines. I'd like to create a separate AV1 forum entirely at this point, but one megathread does not a forum make.
Makes sense. Implementations should have separate threads from the main standardization effort and aomenc. AOM/AV1 news, legal discussions, etc. can be separate threads.
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Old 20th April 2019, 18:31   #1627  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxyshadis View Post
I'd like to solicit opinions on splitting this thread up, especially into aom, rav1e, dav1d, still image (avif) news, as well as solicitations to get the best quality command lines. I'd like to create a separate AV1 forum entirely at this point, but one megathread does not a forum make.
Too much effort, too many double posts, too much separated information and too much overhead in general.

Probably a separation of AV1 encoding and AV1 decoding would be more than enough for AV1 codec.
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Old 21st April 2019, 13:40   #1628  |  Link
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Originally Posted by NikosD View Post
Too much effort, too many double posts, too much separated information and too much overhead in general.
Agreed. Not busy enough yet. You can come back after a couple of days and still might only have a full page to read.
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Old 21st April 2019, 14:42   #1629  |  Link
dapperdan
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VMAF isn't designed for still images, but they do provide the tools to create your own VMAF for specific use cases (e.g. anime on a phone screen, or video game cobtebt) so it surprises me that no one has taken the framework and applied it to still images yet.

It should in theory be able to fuse the results of those other still image tests and create something even better aligned with human reported scores than any one alone. Presumably not Netflix's main use case but you'd think they deliver enough still images to make it worthwhile since they already have the skills.
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Old 21st April 2019, 15:04   #1630  |  Link
SmilingWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapperdan View Post
VMAF isn't designed for still images, but they do provide the tools to create your own VMAF for specific use cases (e.g. anime on a phone screen, or video game cobtebt) so it surprises me that no one has taken the framework and applied it to still images yet.

It should in theory be able to fuse the results of those other still image tests and create something even better aligned with human reported scores than any one alone. Presumably not Netflix's main use case but you'd think they deliver enough still images to make it worthwhile since they already have the skills.
I was looking into this very matter earlier today and the main problem is, as always for this kind of problems, the lack of high quality MOS datasets. In particular, the only "extensive" dataset I've found is TID2013, and even that only comprises of 2 kinds of image compression distortions, for 25 images, at 5 intensities = 250 distorted images and relative scores.

When calculating the SROCC for only the "compression" distortions (JPEG and J2K) these are the results:
Code:
--- top 33%
PSNRHA          0.9686
DSSIM          -0.9683
PSNRHVS         0.9677
PSNRHMA         0.9651
PSNRHVSM        0.9603
FSIMc           0.9589
FSIM            0.9580
VMAF_rb_v0.6.3  0.9524
SSIMULACRA     -0.9519
VMAF_v0.6.1     0.9505
WSNR            0.9468
--- middle
MSSIM           0.9427
VIFP            0.9380
--- low 33%
PSNRc           0.9200
CQM             0.9190
PSNR            0.9170
VSNR            0.9162
SSIM            0.9147
NQM             0.9023
I also tweeted to Jon Sneyers about the dataset they used to validate SSIMULACRA, will see if he can release it indipendently of a blogpost that now, after two years, is probably not going to happen.
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Old 24th April 2019, 17:41   #1631  |  Link
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dav1d decoder v0.3.0 is out:

Changes for 0.3.0 'Sailfish':
------------------------------

This is the final release for the numerous speed improvements of 0.3.0-rc.
It mostly:
- Fixes an annoying crash on SSSE3 that happened in the itx functions
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Old 24th April 2019, 19:14   #1632  |  Link
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Just because someone updates the changelog doesn't mean it has been released already. You can see actual release tags here, hopefully to help avoid confusing premature announcements:
https://code.videolan.org/videolan/dav1d/tags

There is no 0.3.0 yet. There will need to be one or two additional maintenance changes before that is the case. Probably in a day or two.
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Last edited by nevcairiel; 24th April 2019 at 19:16.
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Old 24th April 2019, 19:47   #1633  |  Link
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there isn't a 3.0 tag yet, but you can always git the master branch with the last commit
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Old 25th April 2019, 12:35   #1634  |  Link
dapperdan
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Interesting snippet here:

https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ng-131160.aspx

Quote:
what we believe is, it's really a variant of their VP9.

Jan Ozer: When you say variant you mean...

Oliver Gunasekara: So Intel bought a company called eBrisk which they then open-sourced and that is the team that has delivered this. And what they did for time to market was take their VP9 implementation and just remove all the functionality that is not appropriate for AV1, tweak the syntax to have a legal AV1. So the end result is, it is an AV1 encoder but it doesn't perform anywhere near like the capabilities that AV1 can deliver. That will come in the future.

Basically claims the AV1-SVT encoder has barely begun development. If that's the case should be interesting to follow it's progress.

I noticed a ticket on their tracker where people were asking them to tag a pre-release so they could begin the process of integrating with Austria etc and the Devs didn't think it was ready for even a pre-release status, then a press release came out announcing version 1.0 was ready.

Last edited by dapperdan; 25th April 2019 at 21:54.
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Old 25th April 2019, 15:17   #1635  |  Link
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Originally Posted by hajj_3 View Post
- Fixes an annoying crash on SSSE3 that happened in the itx functions
This fix is only for non-Windows systems. So not important for most of us.
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Old 25th April 2019, 15:51   #1636  |  Link
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Really nice writeup of adding tiles to rav1e - explains what tiles are nicely:
https://blog.rom1v.com/2019/04/imple...ding-in-rav1e/

(credit: reddit av1 channel https://www.reddit.com/r/AV1/)
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Old 25th April 2019, 16:16   #1637  |  Link
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Originally Posted by clsid View Post
This fix is only for non-Windows systems. So not important for most of us.
It depends on the build configuration (stack alignment, to be exact), but this could trigger on all systems.

[edit] removed some nonsense because I misread your reply, sorry about that.

Last edited by Beelzebubu; 25th April 2019 at 16:19.
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Old 25th April 2019, 19:12   #1638  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapperdan View Post
Interesting snippet here:

https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ap-131163.aspx




Basically claims the AV1-SVT encoder has barely begun development. If that's the case should be interesting to follow it's progress.

I noticed a ticket on their tracker where people were asking them to tag a pre-release so they could begin the process of integrating with Austria etc and the Devs didn't think it was ready for even a pre-release status, then a press release came out announcing version 1.0 was ready.
I cant find the quoted snippet anymore.
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Old 25th April 2019, 21:52   #1639  |  Link
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Sorry, posted wrong link:


https://www.streamingmedia.com/Artic...ng-131160.aspx
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Old 26th April 2019, 00:11   #1640  |  Link
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Good interview. I spoke with Oliver from NGCodec at NAB this year and I agree with a lot that was said.

FPGA is neat and disruptive because it's cloud native now, so you can get a lot of the flexibility of a pure software solution. I think there's a span of a few years where FPGAs make a lot of sense for dense live encoding, but then eventually ASIC encoders get even better / faster / more power efficient, and software encoders continue to offer better quality.

I think offline encoding for VOD streaming will still be done in software no matter what. I thought maybe there'd be a use case for FPGA AV1 encoding in the next year or so while software encoders (and CPUs) get fast enough to make AV1 encoding practical, but Oliver didn't seem to think this was a great use case. In retrospect, I'm inclined to agree.
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