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Old 15th May 2015, 03:08   #30001  |  Link
XRyche
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It seems Direct3D11 FSE stopped showing an image during playback for me in this release. Direct3D11 FS Windowed works as well as all modes of Direct 3D9. Direct3D11 FSE was working fine in the previous release.
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Old 15th May 2015, 03:13   #30002  |  Link
Moony349
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I don't think DX11 is working for me after updating to 88.7.

FSE mode says "fullscreen exclusive mode new path" instead of FSE 10 bit.

Going back to 88.5 with same settings fixed issue.

I'm on Windows 7 x64, GTX 780, x64 MPC HC.

Last edited by Moony349; 15th May 2015 at 03:24.
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Old 15th May 2015, 04:14   #30003  |  Link
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Now I see that "Upscaling Refinement" had to be added to the profile group at the time it was created. Is there a way to add it to existing profile groups without having to delete all existing profiles and restarting all configuration from scratch?

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:10.
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Old 15th May 2015, 04:15   #30004  |  Link
andybkma
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Originally Posted by cyberbeing View Post
This version appears to have broken D3D11 entirely on my Win7 GTX770 system, or rather it never activates and madVR always uses D3D9. It works when I reset madVR to defaults though, so it must be something related to my settings/profiles, but so far I've not been able to figure out which causes it.
I would like to check this myself if D3D11 is being used on Win7 but I don't know how. When I press Cntl+J I don't see any OSD for that?
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Old 15th May 2015, 04:17   #30005  |  Link
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I am really appreciating all of the tweaks that madVR offers, but my GTX970 is struggling with 4K upscaling of 1080p BD content. I am now considering a Titan X, but the compute performance concerns me. Should I be looking at AMD cards? I need something quiet and powerful enough to crank up madVR options with 4K upscaling. Suggestions?
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Old 15th May 2015, 04:49   #30006  |  Link
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I am having no trouble with 0.88.7 (32-bit) using D3D11. GK110 (Titan), Win 8.1 x64, 350.12

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Now I see that "Upscaling Refinement" had to be added to the profile group at the time it was created. Is there a way to add it to existing profile groups without having to delete all existing profiles and restarting all configuration from scratch?
No, copy your profile rules to a text file first is best you can do.

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I would like to check this myself if D3D11 is being used on Win7 but I don't know how. When I press Cntl+J I don't see any OSD for that?
If the line "fullscreen exclusive mode" has a bit depth after it you are using D3D11. If you are in a windowed mode it will say [D3D11] after it.

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I am really appreciating all of the tweaks that madVR offers, but my GTX970 is struggling with 4K upscaling of 1080p BD content. I am now considering a Titan X, but the compute performance concerns me. Should I be looking at AMD cards? I need something quiet and powerful enough to crank up madVR options with 4K upscaling. Suggestions?
AMD still has interop issues which slow them down so I don't think AMD is a better option for NNEDI3 image doubling. I think a Titan X is your only upgrade option right now but the 980 Ti and 390X might be released pretty soon, if you can wait a month or two.

I am also pretty sure you could find some settings that look great and still run fine on a 970.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 15th May 2015 at 04:57.
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Old 15th May 2015, 04:58   #30007  |  Link
Balthazar2k4
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Thanks Asmodian. I am happy with the settings I am using, but knowing I can do more with a more powerful card is killing me. I am using a Sony VW600ES 4K projector to a 110" screen so every bit of improvement is noticeable. I will most likely go with the Titan X, but wanted to see if there was anything else out there to consider. Guess not.

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Old 15th May 2015, 05:59   #30008  |  Link
James Freeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Freeman
FSE mode fails to engage. Black Screen in 8bit. "exclusive mode failed" message in 10bit.
Nvidia Windows 7 64
Works fine here. Is that a new problem for you? If so, could you please try to find out which exact madVR build introduced this problem for you?
0.88.7 introduced it for me.
I had to run "restore default settings", and everything works fine now.
Is it a standard procedure to reset setting with every new build? If so, my bad sorry.

Now 0.88.7 is rock solid without any apparent bugs, great build Thanks !
Switching to fullscreen is instant with D3D11 and overall feel of 0.88 is snappier and faster.

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Originally Posted by madshi
What I want to hear about is quality differences, maybe quality vs performance considerations, nothing else. Thanks!
Alright, quality wise it is almost impossible to differentiate between the two when they are properly set.
Any one of them will be adequate.
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Last edited by James Freeman; 15th May 2015 at 10:00.
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Old 15th May 2015, 07:02   #30009  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balthazar2k4 View Post
I will most likely go with the Titan X, but wanted to see if there was anything else out there to consider. Guess not.
You'd be better off with the 980 Ti. Just hold off a bit.
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Old 15th May 2015, 07:52   #30010  |  Link
Dogway
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Artifacts from different algorithms will be rather low, because the chroma channel is usually very soft. But if you're worried about this kind of problems, you can use both luma+chroma doubling, then this problem should be solved.

Multiple colorspace conversions are not "nice", but I'm using 16bit integer textures which have a LOT of precision, and I'm not cutting away BTB/WTW, either, so there's really not much to worry about. The colorspace conversions in madVR are not 100% lossless, but they should be nearly lossless.
Artifacts would be rather low... unless you use something as aggressive as NNEDI3. As you said in the quote of my last post, "image" doubling is done with NNEDI3 for luma and Catmull-Rom for chroma, I want to point out what kind of artifacts you are going to get with such decision, in this post there are various screenshots using "chroma upscale" as a case in point, but the same applies to "Image doubling". (nnedix2, catromAR). Just look at the mountains, you will see a lot of aliasing on the chroma plane because the luma is properly antialiased but chroma isn't, this might not be relevant on live films but on animation you are calling for problems.

Using high bitdepth precision is not going to save you from strong chroma plane degradation. Every conversion behaves like a lowpass filter in the chroma plane precisely because as you say chroma channel is usually very soft. You can check this using Color bars or calibration targets (or better yet colored grain). Anyways my question wasn't rhetorical, I'm interested on why you can't use YUV filtering/scaling until the very last step, specially when not using post-processing filters. What prevents you on doing so since it forces a great degradation mostly when the option "image doubling" is used.

Last edited by Dogway; 15th May 2015 at 08:04.
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Old 15th May 2015, 08:05   #30011  |  Link
Asmodian
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Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
Artifacts would be rather low... unless you use something as aggressive as NNEDI3. As you said in the quote of my last post, "image" doubling is done with NNEDI3 for luma and Catmull-Rom for chroma, I want to point out what kind of artifacts you are going to get with such decision, in this post there are various screenshots using "chroma upscale" as a case in point, but the same applies to "Image doubling".
madshi added chroma doubling back with v0.88.6 so I suppose this is not an issue anymore?

edit: BTW, the screen shots from that post were not using "chroma upscale", the source was RGB so "chroma upscale" was never needed or possible. The point was to test luma only doubling (with Jinc3 or Catmull-Rom for chroma scaling) v.s. both luma and chroma doubling.

Quote:
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Using high bitdepth precision is not going to save you from strong chroma plane degradation. Every conversion behaves like a lowpass filter in the chroma plane precisely because as you say chroma channel is usually very soft.
A lowpass filter?! A 16-bit RGB->YCbCr->RGB does not behave like a lowpass filter. It isn't going to YCbCr 4:2:0.
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Last edited by Asmodian; 15th May 2015 at 08:31.
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Old 15th May 2015, 08:30   #30012  |  Link
MysteryX
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SuperRes is doing a GREAT job on 768p laptop display without too much cost on performance.

On 1080p TV, however, the performance hit is WAY too high!! It goes from 14ms rendering to 39ms. Even with basic upscaling algorithm, it won't work with SVP at 60fps.

Is it normal that there is such a big difference of performance hit with SuperRes between 768p and 1080p?

Last edited by MysteryX; 24th June 2015 at 07:10.
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Old 15th May 2015, 08:45   #30013  |  Link
Dogway
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
edit: BTW, the screen shots from that post were not using "chroma upscale", the source was RGB so "chroma upscale" was never needed or possible. The point was to test luma only doubling (with Jinc3 or Catmull-Rom for chroma scaling) v.s. both luma and chroma doubling.
As I said, it behaves exactly as it currently does and as madshi stated, luma and chroma doubling don't use the same upscaler. This produces aliasing mismatches like the ones seen in the picture.

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A lowpass filter?! A 16-bit RGB->YCbCr->RGB does not behave like a lowpass filter. It isn't going to YCbCr 4:2:0.
Don't raise any eyebrows, every conversion behaves like a lowpass filter when done successively, even with full chroma. This is original chroma plane, this is chroma plane after YUV,RGB,YUV444,RGB,YUV. And yes, it even has a lowpass filter feel to it when I use YUV444 for the last conversion. Test script.

Last edited by Dogway; 15th May 2015 at 09:23.
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Old 15th May 2015, 09:15   #30014  |  Link
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Thanks for the feedback! Seems there'll be another Shiandow deband iteration coming. <sigh> Of course it's all good, the algorithm getting better all the time. But I hope you users/testers won't be bored at some point, retesting revised algos all the time?
No, you may rest assured that we won’t be bored with the testing. The subsequent rounds of testing for the same feature actually help it evolve to become perfect.

However, it so happens that every time madVR is in active development, I have a relatively higher workload. So I am not able to contribute as much as I could normally do.

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It's on my list.
Ok, thanks!
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Old 15th May 2015, 10:12   #30015  |  Link
James Freeman
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It seems Direct3D11 FSE stopped showing an image during playback for me in this release. Direct3D11 FS Windowed works as well as all modes of Direct 3D9. Direct3D11 FSE was working fine in the previous release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moony349 View Post
I don't think DX11 is working for me after updating to 88.7.

FSE mode says "fullscreen exclusive mode new path" instead of FSE 10 bit.

Going back to 88.5 with same settings fixed issue.

I'm on Windows 7 x64, GTX 780, x64 MPC HC.
There is a "restore default settings.bat" in the madVR folder, run it and test again.
It fixed the problem for me.
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Old 15th May 2015, 10:21   #30016  |  Link
detmek
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post

If you see no advantage for D3D11 than there's no problem at all staying with D3D9. I think I didn't answer to your previous comment: If "use a separate device for presentation" causes the same problem with D3D9 then that points to a driver issue. I've had several of those with Intel already. Many of them have to do with sharing textures over multiple devices, sadly.
Thanks Madshi. If its a driver problem then it exists more then a year. Last year I switched from Nvidia GPU to IGPU. With Nvidia I had active "use a separate device for presentation" because it used to give me lower rendering times. After switching I forgot to reset madVR and I had some stutters. I resetted madVR settings and in process of elimination I found that mentioned option was a problem. I forgot about that until you asked me to activate that option.
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Old 15th May 2015, 10:22   #30017  |  Link
nijiko
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@madshi : Will madVR support multi-languages? I can help to translate to Japanese & Trad. Chinese.
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Old 15th May 2015, 10:34   #30018  |  Link
nevcairiel
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Originally Posted by Dogway View Post
Don't raise any eyebrows, every conversion behaves like a lowpass filter when done successively, even with full chroma. This is original chroma plane, this is chroma plane after YUV,RGB,YUV444,RGB,YUV. And yes, it even has a lowpass filter feel to it when I use YUV444 for the last conversion. Test script.
Thats absolute nonsense. Maybe if you store the intermediates in 8-bit all the time (like your test script appears to do), but if you store them with enough precision, it does not result in any image degredation.
I don't know what kind of Matrix madshi uses for this intermediate steps, but for example YCgCo is proven to be mathematically perfectly lossless given enough intermediate precision.
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Old 15th May 2015, 10:39   #30019  |  Link
Razoola
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I can confirm for me in 088.7 full screen exclusive mode is not reported as DX11 but in windows mode it is. Though I can't remember checking if there was ever a message to show it was in FSE DX11 or DX9
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Old 15th May 2015, 10:59   #30020  |  Link
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Thanks for the feedback! Seems there'll be another Shiandow deband iteration coming. <sigh> Of course it's all good, the algorithm getting better all the time. But I hope you users/testers won't be bored at some point, retesting revised algos all the time?
I tested the lastest iteration so far and it's definitely better. In some cases it's better than the high preset but I found one case where it's very weak compared to the high preset. I wait until the next iteration comes out and if it's not corrected I will post a picture (or a sample video?) if it can help Shiandow.
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