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Old 21st February 2019, 18:14   #54941  |  Link
Manni
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
I noticed this in the form of less gradient smoothness.

But I don't think it's nvidia's issue, the TV probably doesn't react very well to 10 or 12 bit. Because its frc dithering algorithm may have some inherent sharpening or debanding which doesn't allow for perfectly smooth gradient.
Guys, please stick to the question.

Gradient smoothness has nothing to do with MadTPG patterns.

Yes, there is more banding in 8bits than in 12bits on my display. Significantly. Otherwise I'd stick with 8bits.

Yes, my display supports 12bits natively, from input to panels.

This isn't the question.

The question is: does anyone measure different results when using madTPG patterns in 8bits and in 12bits (4K23 SDR WCG)?

If you can't contribute the way Huhn kindly did, then please stay out, because that's not helping.

I don't need advice, I need data.
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Last edited by Manni; 21st February 2019 at 18:16.
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Old 21st February 2019, 18:17   #54942  |  Link
tp4tissue
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Originally Posted by YGPMOLE View Post
A couple of stupid questions (sorry!).

1) Now I'm trying the beta version (.54) with an AMD RX480 in full RGB 8Bit, LAV in DX3D11, madVR 8bit, but the on-screen display shows the output DX3D11 10Bit that goes at 8Bit only when I open the mený (and goes back to 10 when I close it) even with SD or FullHD files 8Bit as input: it's that normal?

2) I have all the displays mode inserted (from 1080p23 to 2160p60), but I got no switches with 23.976, 24.000 or 25.000 files like it was with the .17 version: still normal?
Yea, my R 580 does the same thing. pops in and out of hdr if using menu.
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 21st February 2019 at 18:20.
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Old 21st February 2019, 18:20   #54943  |  Link
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i'm aware that is 100% the display not the send content.

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So if you can select manually the mode that *might* be selected automatically when the BT2020 flag is enable, there should be zero difference, because the content is the same.
just telling my Tv disagrees

Quote:
What you are stating, which is that your display doesn 't respond the same whether you enable the BT2020 flag or not, is 100% unrelated. It is to be expected with most displays.
what else should i see i'm over this option.
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but you don't use this option to calibrate and or verify so it shouldn't matter in this case
and i said may or may not anyway
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Old 21st February 2019, 18:37   #54944  |  Link
Manni
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just telling my Tv disagrees
Your TV doesn't disagree. It simply means that you can't select manually the mode that is selected automatically when the BT2020 flag is sent. Even if it is the same mode, some additional/different processing is clearly enabled.

If, as with my display, you could select manually exactly the same mode/calibration/processing that is selected when the BT2020 flag is sent, then you would see that there is no difference in content.

Anyway, I guess something is getting lost in translation here.

Plus that flag isn't enabled when I calibrate, and you didn't use it for your test, so let's put that aside as it's entirely unconnected with the 8bits/12bits measurements issue.
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Old 21st February 2019, 18:37   #54945  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
- D3D11 native prevents using hardware deinterlacing
- D3D11 copy-back is slower than DXVA2 copy-back and has no quality advantages, so you have no reason to use it really
If D3D11 native prevents hardware deinterlacing in madVR, isn't that a reason to use D3D11 copy-back?
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Old 21st February 2019, 18:43   #54946  |  Link
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dxva2 copyback is supposed to be faster.
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Old 21st February 2019, 18:45   #54947  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
dxva2 copyback is supposed to be faster.
Faster than D3D11 native and D3D11 copyback?
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Old 21st February 2019, 19:12   #54948  |  Link
huhn
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DXVA copyback is supposed to be a little bit faster than d3d11 copyback.

everything had been said: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=54943
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Old 21st February 2019, 20:26   #54949  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
DXVA copyback is supposed to be a little bit faster than d3d11 copyback.

everything had been said: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=54943
Thanks, huhn.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 01:58   #54950  |  Link
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I just noticed that the detect black bars functionality only seems to work on some titles. I can't seem to determine why it works on some but not others. For instance, take the Harry Potter blu-rays (remuxed to MKVs with MakeMKV). On the Sorcerer's Stone black bar detection and cropping works as expected. But on the Chamber of Secrets, it doesn't. Both are blu-ray rips, both are VC-1 encodes, and both are 2.39:1 format. Any ideas?

Edit: I was wrong. Automatic black bar detection IS working on all titles it seems. For instance if I go into full screen on my 21:9 monitor, black bars are cropped appropriately. What doesn't appear to be working consistently, is automatic cropping of black bars while MPC-HC is in windowed mode. So on Sorcerer's Stone, the black bars are cropped out of the window, but on the Chamber of Secrets, they are not. If I stretch the window so that it's very wide, then the black bars are cropped appropriately.

Last edited by FranknStein7; 22nd February 2019 at 02:23.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 03:44   #54951  |  Link
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I use black bar detection and think its a great thing as it lowers the rending times, however Ive had it trip up a number of titles and can go crazy at times...
e.g. On "oz the great and powerful" its a scope film but the start 15mins or so is B&W and meant to be 4.3, then when it changes colour the sides open to scope 2.35
If I dont have black bar detection ON, it works perfectly 4:3 > 2.35 in the right place.
if I have black bar detection turned on which i like to ue, on this title the start zooms up to 16:9 when it should be 4.3, then as it widens to scope after 15 mins the image jumps in and out, the zooming gets muddled and its a mess until the sides reach the scope borders.....

Black bar detection works great on most titles but not on anything that the ratios change. I have tried and tested every tick box but I just cant get it working acuratley on this title and some others that are similar. I have some other files that the ratios change 4.3, 1.66, 16.9, 1.85 and scope, on these that change often black bar detection gets muddled, again Ive tried making changes, read change every 45secs, 20secs etc etc, it still doesnt correct the zooming in and out.

Maybe there is a way that i dont know of to make black bar detection work for all unusual titles without jumping round.... For a film thats static its fantastic, maybe these other titles with mixed ratios it just cant cope...
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Old 22nd February 2019, 15:11   #54952  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Grimsdyke View Post
Here is the problem:
When I play a 4k-file that has no black bars and change something in MadVR like target nits, etc. I see an immediate effect !!
But on files with black bars nothing changes - no matter what setting I test !! The only setting that has an effect is (de-)activating "output video in HDR format".
@Madshi. Without the madvr osd I can at least set/change target nits. Most of other settings are still not working. Don't know if you could do anything about that. Thx

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Old 22nd February 2019, 18:14   #54953  |  Link
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I use black bar detection and think its a great thing as it lowers the rending times, however Ive had it trip up a number of titles and can go crazy at times...
e.g. On "oz the great and powerful" its a scope film but the start 15mins or so is B&W and meant to be 4.3, then when it changes colour the sides open to scope 2.35
If I dont have black bar detection ON, it works perfectly 4:3 > 2.35 in the right place.
if I have black bar detection turned on which i like to ue, on this title the start zooms up to 16:9 when it should be 4.3, then as it widens to scope after 15 mins the image jumps in and out, the zooming gets muddled and its a mess until the sides reach the scope borders.....

Black bar detection works great on most titles but not on anything that the ratios change. I have tried and tested every tick box but I just cant get it working acuratley on this title and some others that are similar. I have some other files that the ratios change 4.3, 1.66, 16.9, 1.85 and scope, on these that change often black bar detection gets muddled, again Ive tried making changes, read change every 45secs, 20secs etc etc, it still doesnt correct the zooming in and out.

Maybe there is a way that i dont know of to make black bar detection work for all unusual titles without jumping round.... For a film thats static its fantastic, maybe these other titles with mixed ratios it just cant cope...
Where is Black bar detection enabled? What does it allow you to do ?

NM I found it..

It doesn't seem to be lowering rendering times.. How much should it lower rendering times ?

OKOKOK, on 2.39:1 film, I looked more closely.. ~ 0.4-0.6 ms, Is that the correct behavior everyone else is getting.

This is on 1060 @ 2088mhz, 9ghz memory
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 22nd February 2019 at 18:54.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 19:46   #54954  |  Link
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I am sorry, if this question may be out of place and/or too "n00b" to be allowed - just tell me if that is the case and I'll remove it. :-)

I have Asperger and get anxiety if things are not done in the same way each time and I am not at home, so I can't check this and therefore I am turning to this forum.

My HTPC is a Windows 7 Home Premium DELL desktop computer and the only programs I use on it are CCleaner, ReClock, MPC-HC with LAV Filters and madVR.

(Yes, I know about CCleaner, but only use the right click option on the Recycle Bin to empty it and never enter the program itself.)

When I want to watch something, I move it from either of the USB-hard drives connected to my router or from my NAS and place it on the Windows desktop of the HTPC. I then run CCleaner once, click the .mkv-file once and press Enter on the keyboard; ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR starts accordingly. When the program has come to it's end, ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR exits back to the Windows desktop, after which I drag the .mkv-file to the Recycle Bin, run CCleaner once from the right-click menu and then either shut the computer down, turn off the TV (to watch something later) or move a new .mkv-file to the desktop from either drive.

With this in mind, I have two questions for you, the people, more knowledgeable than I:

1. The last program I watched before I left home, I think I might have forgotten the .mkv-file on the desktop, ran CCleaner from the right-click menu of the, empty, Recycle Bin and then shut down the computer. If that is the case and the computer is - next time - not turned on in the same state that it always is: With and empty Windows desktop and I the proceed to remove the file, can this in any way affect the performance and - most importantly - the picture quality of - primarily - madVR (and/or ReClock and MPC-HC)?

2. Additional question - please put it to me as bluntly as you can: I am "overdoing it", aren't I?

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Old 22nd February 2019, 20:04   #54955  |  Link
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I am sorry, if this question may be out of place and/or too "n00b" to be allowed - just tell me if that is the case and I'll remove it. :-)

I have Asperger and get anxiety if things are not done in the same way each time and I am not at home, so I can't check this and therefore I am turning to this forum.

My HTPC is a Windows 7 Home Premium DELL desktop computer and the only programs I use on it are CCleaner, ReClock, MPC-HC with LAV Filters and madVR.

(Yes, I know about CCleaner, but only use the right click option on the Recycle Bin to empty it and never enter the program itself.)

When I want to watch something, I move it from either of the USB-hard drives connected to my router or from my NAS and place it on the Windows desktop of the HTPC. I then run CCleaner once, click the .mkv-file once and press Enter on the keyboard; ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR starts accordingly. When the program has come to it's end, ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR exits back to the Windows desktop, after which I drag the .mkv-file to the Recycle Bin, run CCleaner once from the right-click menu and then either shut the computer down, turn off the TV (to watch something later) or move a new .mkv-file to the desktop from either drive.

With this in mind, I have two questions for you, the people, more knowledgeable than I:

1. The last program I watched before I left home, I think I might have forgotten the .mkv-file on the desktop, ran CCleaner from the right-click menu of the, empty, Recycle Bin and then shut down the computer. If that is the case and the computer is - next time - not turned on in the same state that it always is: With and empty Windows desktop and I the proceed to remove the file, can this in any way affect the performance and - most importantly - the picture quality of - primarily - madVR (and/or ReClock and MPC-HC)?

2. Additional question - please put it to me as bluntly as you can: I am "overdoing it", aren't I?


It will definitely not affect picture quality.

The ccleaner also has no impact in your current use-process.

Theoretically if you wanted everything to remain identically in place, you would have to re-image the entire drive every time you used the computer.

EVEN THEN, because of wear leveling on the ssd nand, the data will never be copied to the exact same place after imaging.

There are analog elements to the entire computing process which one can not bring ORDER to.

The very nature of Perception is a simplification/ modeling process, an approximation of what is.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 20:17   #54956  |  Link
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Originally Posted by SirSwede View Post
I am sorry, if this question may be out of place and/or too "n00b" to be allowed - just tell me if that is the case and I'll remove it. :-)

I have Asperger and get anxiety if things are not done in the same way each time and I am not at home, so I can't check this and therefore I am turning to this forum.

My HTPC is a Windows 7 Home Premium DELL desktop computer and the only programs I use on it are CCleaner, ReClock, MPC-HC with LAV Filters and madVR.

(Yes, I know about CCleaner, but only use the right click option on the Recycle Bin to empty it and never enter the program itself.)

When I want to watch something, I move it from either of the USB-hard drives connected to my router or from my NAS and place it on the Windows desktop of the HTPC. I then run CCleaner once, click the .mkv-file once and press Enter on the keyboard; ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR starts accordingly. When the program has come to it's end, ReClock, MPC-HC and madVR exits back to the Windows desktop, after which I drag the .mkv-file to the Recycle Bin, run CCleaner once from the right-click menu and then either shut the computer down, turn off the TV (to watch something later) or move a new .mkv-file to the desktop from either drive.


Why donít you just run the movie directly from the nas or external harddrive? Seems senseless to move files everytime. Defeats the purpose of having external storage. Also, why donít you just empty the recycle bin using rightmouse button on it. No need for ccleaner for just emptying the recyclebin.
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Old 22nd February 2019, 20:51   #54957  |  Link
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Why donít you just run the movie directly from the nas or external harddrive? Seems senseless to move files everytime. Defeats the purpose of having external storage. Also, why donít you just empty the recycle bin using rightmouse button on it. No need for ccleaner for just emptying the recyclebin.
Two reasons:

1. I had the HTPC before I had any kind of external storage, so that would move me away from how I've always done it (the Asperger comes into play there)

2. In my head, that would be slower, no? Wouldn't the render and present times increase, running it not directly from the same hard drive where madVR is installed?
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Old 22nd February 2019, 22:17   #54958  |  Link
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Press Shift+Delete to bypass recycle bin.

Location of a file does not have any effect on the performance of madvr.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 00:28   #54959  |  Link
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Press Shift+Delete to bypass recycle bin.

Location of a file does not have any effect on the performance of madvr.
It does on very low spec machines. I've got a netbook that chokes if playing files over wifi, as the transfer and cpu overhead of the wireless eats into the rendertime. And some wireless cards also greatly increase dpc latency which can cause render time spikes as well.
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Old 23rd February 2019, 01:31   #54960  |  Link
huhn
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this has nothing todo with madVr if the file doesn't get there in time.

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Originally Posted by 70MM View Post
I use black bar detection and think its a great thing as it lowers the rending times, however Ive had it trip up a number of titles and can go crazy at times...
e.g. On "oz the great and powerful" its a scope film but the start 15mins or so is B&W and meant to be 4.3, then when it changes colour the sides open to scope 2.35
If I dont have black bar detection ON, it works perfectly 4:3 > 2.35 in the right place.
if I have black bar detection turned on which i like to ue, on this title the start zooms up to 16:9 when it should be 4.3, then as it widens to scope after 15 mins the image jumps in and out, the zooming gets muddled and its a mess until the sides reach the scope borders.....

Black bar detection works great on most titles but not on anything that the ratios change. I have tried and tested every tick box but I just cant get it working acuratley on this title and some others that are similar. I have some other files that the ratios change 4.3, 1.66, 16.9, 1.85 and scope, on these that change often black bar detection gets muddled, again Ive tried making changes, read change every 45secs, 20secs etc etc, it still doesnt correct the zooming in and out.

Maybe there is a way that i dont know of to make black bar detection work for all unusual titles without jumping round.... For a film thats static its fantastic, maybe these other titles with mixed ratios it just cant cope...
try the option: "if black bars change pick one zoom factor".

this feature will never be fool proofed.
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