Guide to convert BD 3D to 3D Left+Right Stereoscopic and Anaglyph

[r0lZ]

Hum, that's very strange. Seems related to a hardware problem with your BD drive. Perhaps it becomes too hot and closes itself? Encoding directly from the BD drive is not recommended, as it has to spin for a long time, and it may becomes very hot. Anyway, try to copy the BD to an ISO first, then mount the ISO and convert the movie from the mounted image. If it's a problem with your drive, that should work.

BTW, have you checked if the BD disc is still accessible in the drive when the problem occurs? You should be able to open the K:\BDMV\PLAYLIST\ folder in Explorer. If you can't, then that confirms the hardware problem.

Also, try with a BD that you have already successfully converted, just to be sure that it's not a new kind of copy protection.

[9Hawk9]

Thanks, but I think that's not an issue, beacuse I'm using iso files from a virtual disc, mounted with daemon tolls. Is it maybe, beacuse the playlist contains multiple m2ts files?

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by 9Hawk9

Is it maybe, beacuse the playlist contains multiple m2ts files?

Multiple M2TS can be a problem (especially when using DirectShowMVCSource instead of ssifSource2) but afaik, it happens at the beginning of the encoding, when all M2TS files must be opened at the same time. Avisynth may give up due to the unusually long startup delay. I don't think it should hang later.

Is it a message in the x264 log?

[9Hawk9]

Where can I find x264 log and is there any solution for that problem, or with multiple m2ts files wont work as it should be.

PS: Didn't mention that error accours between two encodes from the same BD, beacuse I allways make two, H-SBS and Anaglyph red/cyan encodes.

It looks like there is problem with multiple m2ts files, I just made one m2ts BD H-SBS encode and seems to be OK. Now I'm making an Anaglyph encode, will see....

Well, everyting is OK with one m2ts playlist in Anaglyph too, multiple m2ts playlist is still in error.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.

[tyee]

Does everyone know that you can use SSP's stereo transformation filter in mpc-hc to playback sbs and over/under after converting using r0lZ app. I added it under external filters and it just works, although I have to manually set in the output tab, resolution to 1920x1080 to get proper AR.

What player is everyone using?

[r0lZ]

Currently, I don't have a 3D graphic card in my laptop. I use my Samsung TV for playback. But I use sometimes The KMPlayer to show my SBS or T&B movies in anaglyph. It's handy to verify if the views are in the correct order, but a pain to watch a long movie!

A friend lend me a portable PC with a Nvidia 3D graphics card, and I've tried to get PowerDVD working in 3D, but w/o luck. The KMPlayer is not an option either, as it doesn't handle the hardware. I've had to install the Nvidia stereo player. It works, but it is very basic.

I would prefer MPC-HC, good to play MKV files with chapters. Can you explain with more details how you did it?

[Sharc]

Originally Posted by tyee

What player is everyone using?

- Stereoscopic player (not free)
- Bino (free)
- you may want to try out this (I didn't try myself):
http://www.oaultimate.com/computers/playing-3d-sbs-videos-as-3d-anaglyph.html
http://www.oaultimate.com/computers/alternative-way-play-stereoscopic-3d-on-mpc-and-gom.html

[tyee]

Forgive me but I think I don't need SP to play over/under or sbs. As long as your TV or Projector has the ability to play these just load the video in mpc-hc and start playback, then switch your TV or Projector into that mode and it should work. The only thing I can think of that requires SP is if you have to convert the format you have into another one. My projector plays sbs and o/u so I don't need to convert anything. This is assuming you have converted a Blu-ray into sbs or o/u with your app, which is great btw! Please correct me if I'm wrong here. I was nearly going to purchase SP until I thought about this. For ssif playback direct from a Blu-ray, then yes you would need SP but not for sbs or o/u, yes??

Update - confirmed, I disabled the SP transformation filter and I still get 3D.

I just added the stereoscopic transformation filter in mpc-hc under external filters and it showed up. Select it and set it's options if required. I don't know why there is no 5 min. time limit like the SP itself, strange!

[Sharc]

Agree, if you are lucky to have an advanced 3D playback infrastructure.
I use Stereoscopic Player (SP) to convert on the fly Blu-Ray ssif into a 3D format which fits to my 'outdated' 2-D projector for example.
BD3D2MK3D comes handy for converting 3D Blu-ray sources to Anaglyphs on DVD5 (using tsMuxer for authoring rather than mkv), which playback well on my 'outdated' 2D-Standalone + LCD TV.

[tyee]

Right. I understand

I'm doing some tests and comparing sbs to o/u and I'm tending to like o/u better for the 3D wow effect. It seems definitely sharper and that helps the effects. What do others think?

[r0lZ]

Personally, I prefer SBS, at least when played on my Samsung TV, as with T&B, I have noticed sometimes flickering sharp horizontal lines. (I have never seen flickering vertical or horizontal lines in SBS mode.) However, that may be a problem with my TV.

Theoretically, since the parallax works on the horizontal axis, it should be better to use T&B, as there is a greater X resolution, and therefore a more precise parallax. But IMO, that doesn't matter much. Most of the 3D effect is due to the brain, and if the parallax is sufficient, the effect is correct in the two modes. I have even seen 3D-DVDs (yes, they exist!) and the 3D effect was good, despite the 720x240 resolution. The picture was not very good, but it's another problem.

[Sharc]

Originally Posted by r0lZ

....I have noticed sometimes flickering sharp horizontal lines.....However, that may be a problem with my TV.

Could the flickering be due to the '--fake interlaced' setting for progressive encodes, triggering the deinterlacer in your TV? Just speculating......

[tyee]

@r0lZ
So when we use your app and get our sbs or o/u, what is the frame rate per eye? Is the projector/TV giving us 24Hz per eye??

Another thing I'm noticing is a 1 frame out of sync when encoding which of course throws the 3D out of sync. It is random meaning it may happen when I start an encode or it may not. It happens for both sbs or o/u. I usually start the encode then playback the first 30 seconds and see if it has this problem. If yes, I start over.

I haven't tried DirectShowMVCSource yet only ssifsource2. I get 100% cpu and 48fps using x264 crf 20 veryfast preset.

BTW, for years I, not being a programmer was looking for a gui creator that was easy. I finally found it! This is the most awesome app I've ever used, well, close! It allows anyone to make a gui for a command line app by copy/paste then changing the items for your specific solution. Check it out here. I made my own x264 gui by not controlling only x264.exe but controlling a batch file with everything inside it including noise reducers, sharpeners, etc. Works awesome. Free of course. I should probably start a new thread on it but mention it here because of tcl you mentioned.

http://tinytools.objective-view.de/Tools/FroG

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by Sharc

Could the flickering be due to the '--fake interlaced' setting for progressive encodes, triggering the deinterlacer in your TV? Just speculating......

Perhaps, but anyway, the problem is not visible in SBS, due to the higher vertical resolution.

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by tyee

@r0lZ
So when we use your app and get our sbs or o/u, what is the frame rate per eye? Is the projector/TV giving us 24Hz per eye??

I suppose it depends of the hardware. When I was trying to get the 3D working on my friend's computer, I had to change the screen refresh rate from 60Hz to 100Hz, as otherwise, it was too slow and I had choppy/flickering playback. With 100Hz, I suppose each eye can receive 50 images per second (excellent for PAL).
My TV is supposed to run at 300Hz and the 3D glasses are certified up to 300 Hz. 150Hz per eye is of course better to avoid any flickering effect, but honestly, I'm not sure my TV works really at 300Hz.

Of course, it's different if you use passive 3D glasses based on polarised light (with LG TVs for example), as in that case, all images are received by the two eyes (but the resolution has to be divided by 2 once again).

Originally Posted by tyee

Another thing I'm noticing is a 1 frame out of sync when encoding which of course throws the 3D out of sync. It is random meaning it may happen when I start an encode or it may not. It happens for both sbs or o/u. I usually start the encode then playback the first 30 seconds and see if it has this problem. If yes, I start over.

Well, I have had that problem only once, with a MPLS containing several M2TS. The problem started at the joint between 2 M2TS. I don't remember if I was using ssifsource2 or DSMVCsource. I've started over with the other method, and it worked fine. Anyway, it's a problem with the disc or ISO, or with the filter, but not with the GUI, so I can't do much.

Originally Posted by tyee

I haven't tried DirectShowMVCSource yet only ssifsource2. I get 100% cpu and 48fps using x264 crf 20 veryfast preset.

If you want to do other things when encoding, you can add "--threads 3" in the additional options, to restrict x264 to a specific number of cores. Of course, it takes more time to encode, but at least, your PC is still responding correctly. (I may add a GUI to select the number of threads in the next version...)

Originally Posted by tyee

http://tinytools.objective-view.de/Tools/FroG

Thanks for the link. I'll have a look. That can be handy do do simple GUIs. (For GUIs like BD3D2MK3D, it's probably not sufficient, because I have to launch several commands and analyse their outputs.)
[EDIT] I had a look at their homepage. Seems easy and clean. I remember the good old Amiga days, when I wrote also a similar tool to build simple GUIs by describing the elements in a text file. That was handy, but somewhat limited. Maybe this one is more powerful. Thanks anyway!

[tyee]

I tried the sbs and o/u comparison again and there is no contest on my projector (Benq W1070). The o/u is noticeably better with the higher horizontal resolution. I guess my projector has okay horizontal scaling for the sbs but very good vertical scaling for the o/u. In some of the skiing scenes (Art Of Flight 3D) I could nearly walk through my screen into that scene it was so clear and transparent. I'll have to run the original BR tonight and compare how close it is to the o/u.

I have only converted one disk so far with only one ssif file. For multi ssif files will eac3to combine them or will your app do it or I thought I read earlier in this thread there is another app that can do it?? Sometimes I want to do this manually.

[r0lZ]

I use eac3to to extract the audio and subpic streams from the MPLS, except when the MPLS is made of a single M2TS/SSIF file (because subtitle timings are sometimes damaged when there is a cut between two M2TS). In that case, the streams are extracted from the M2TS.
The video is encoded from the single or multiple M2TS/SSIF pair(s) anyway. (Look at the AVS script to see how I do it.)

[Sharc]

@r0lZ:
A very minor issue:
When one checks 'Resize 1080p to 720p' the Intro Clip still keeps '1080p' in the text.

[Nico8583]

I'm allways searching a software to encode BD50 3D to BD25 3D but I would like to test also BD3D2MK3D so I have many questions please
- What softwares do I need in addition of BD3D2MK3D ? FFDShow, Haali Media Splitter,... ?
- Is it better for you to use SBS or TB ? I have an active 3D TV Samsung, I have read TB is better for LG
- Is it better to use ssifSource2 or DirectShowMVCSource ?
- If I choose 3D subtitles, what is the best resize filter ? Time is not a problem for me
- Is it necessary to convert subtitles to 3D for SBS/TB ? Is it an option for subtitles 2D also ?
- How can I determine if left is first ?
- What is the best resize filter between x264 and AviSynth ? Again time is not a problem for me, I search the best time / quality report but + for quality
- BD compatible add --blu-ray option of x264 ?
- What is the bitrate minimum to get a very good quality for Half ? Same question for Full ?
I'm sorry for all these questions but thanks to help me

[r0lZ]

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- What softwares do I need in addition of BD3D2MK3D ? FFDShow, Haali Media Splitter,... ?

Honestly, I don't know I have both. It's a question for the authors of the filters.

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- Is it better for you to use SBS or TB ?

I have also a Samsung, and personally, I prefer SBS, as it tends to be less problematic with thin sharp horizontal lines.

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- Is it better to use ssifSource2 or DirectShowMVCSource ?

DirectShowMVCSource is more "powerful", as it can encode in a large variety of 3D formats, including anaglyph. But when there are many SSIF files referenced by the MPLS you want to encode, it may be slow to start and cause DirectShow timeout problems. In that case, I recommend using ssifSource2. Otherwise, they should be equivalent. (There is still an open question about a problem with missing frames in some cases, but I have not been able to reproduce it, so I can't say if a specific filter is the culprit.)

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- If I choose 3D subtitles, what is the best resize filter ?

I use the bilinear filter. It is fast and well suited to shrink the bitmap. Note also that usually, the subtitle width or height is divided exactly by 2 (and the other dimension is not resized). It's a very simple case to handle, and most, if not all resize methods should give an equivalent result. But I haven't tested all filters.

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- Is it necessary to convert subtitles to 3D for SBS/TB ? Is it an option for subtitles 2D also ?

2D subtitles can be used only with 3D aware programs or hardware, as they must be duplicated at display time. Unfortunately, the Samsung TVs cannot display the IDX/SUB subtitles. They can only display (badly) the text-based subtitles, like SRT. (It's why there is an option to hardcode the subtitles in the video.)
If you use an external player or multimedia hard disc to send the video to the TV, it must use 3D subtitles in bitmap format, as otherwise they will be placed on the whole screen, covering both images (in SBS mode) or only the bottom image (in TB mode).
So, the 2D bitmap subs can be useful only with software or hardware players running on the 3D display. Furthermore, they must be able to change the "depth" of the subtitles, as otherwise, the subs are displayed on the surface of the screen, often "inside" objects. That's really unpleasant.
BD2D2MK3D doesn't have an option to mux the 2D subs, but you can do it manually with MkvMerge if you wish. (The 2D subs are in the temp folder anyway.)

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- How can I determine if left is first ?

I have never seen a BD with right first, but they may exist. Currently, I trust eac3to. It displays the "left/right eye" string in the corresponding video stream.
If you're not sure, you can use a software player that can display 3D video in anaglyph and test with cheap anaglyph glasses. (I use The KMPlayer for that purpose.)

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- What is the best resize filter between x264 and AviSynth ?

I don't know. Usually, I use bilinear (for the same reason than for the subtitles), or lanczos (for its quality). I don't know if the x264 or AVS filters are better or more rapid, but usually, I prefer to use the AVS filters, to leave more CPU power for x264.

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- BD compatible add --blu-ray option of x264 ?

It adds several otions, but I'm not sure they are correct. See here, here and here. (I still need to study the different cases, and adapt the parameters accordingly.) Anyway, IMO, that option doesn't make much sense. I've added it at the request of a user, but who want to convert a BD to SBS or TB to burn another BD? IMO, it is better to copy the original.

Originally Posted by Nico8583

- What is the bitrate minimum to get a very good quality for Half ? Same question for Full ?

I use the bitrate modes (and mainly the 2-pass mode) ONLY when the size of the output file matters (for example, to put the encoded movie on a DVD). IMO, it doesn't make sense to use the bitrate modes if you are interested in quality only. A very complex movie may require a high bitrate, and a simple and clean cartoon can be encoded with very high quality at a relatively low bitrate. IMO, the CRF mode is the best one to ensure that the quality will be good, regardless of the complexity of the movie and of the half/full 3D mode. It is made for that purpose, and I recommend to use it. (Note that when you change the preset, say from medium to slower, the quality doesn't change much in CRF mode. It's the output size that changes. In the other hand, changing the preset in 2-pass or ABR mode doesn't change the size, but affects the quality.)