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Old 23rd July 2019, 17:45   #56921  |  Link
el Filou
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If you log with a monitoring tool (I've read madVR doesn't like GPU-Z and the like but I've personally never witnessed any difference in performance when it's running) and multiply the GPU clock by the load percentage, then divide that number by the max boost clock (which can usually be found in reviews, or just max out your madVR settings to find it), you can get an estimation of the relative work that is needed from the GPU for a certain madVR config.
It's not a 100% accurate evaluation but it's closer than "this GPU can probably do X scaling algo at Y source and Z output resolution"
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Old 23rd July 2019, 17:49   #56922  |  Link
HillieSan
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
benchmark by doing as many frames as possible is not reliable test too each shader has an overhead of about 0.30 ms so a high end card would loose more performance to that then a try level card.
I don’t understand your logic. The performance of the NGU algorithm translates to a benchmark of many frames as possible for certain “ideal” settings. I can imagine that an expensive graphics card may not be the winner. Let the tool determine the best cards for the NGU algorithm (=madvr) and settings. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 18:44   #56923  |  Link
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the 2 finalsteps currently take about 2 ms.
to make math simple if you manage to reach 250 FPS with the giving setting you are currently loosing 50% of the performance to the finalsteps this is not an accurate representation of the card.
that a problem in game benchmarking too but it is far far less of an issue there we have way more steps then the finalsteps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
If you log with a monitoring tool (I've read madVR doesn't like GPU-Z and the like but I've personally never witnessed any difference in performance when it's running) and multiply the GPU clock by the load percentage, then divide that number by the max boost clock (which can usually be found in reviews, or just max out your madVR settings to find it), you can get an estimation of the relative work that is needed from the GPU for a certain madVR config.
It's not a 100% accurate evaluation but it's closer than "this GPU can probably do X scaling algo at Y source and Z output resolution"
if my card jumps between 1000 and 700 mhz the load is going crazy i would get number apart by more then 100 % for the same load making the matrix pretty inaccurate at best.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 18:44   #56924  |  Link
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My GPU can't keep up with NGU doubling on low when playing low-resolution 50fps PAL content (Antiques Roadshow), but is fine playing basically all other content at even NGU high.

Is there a way to modify the upsampling algorithm when playing >=50fps content?
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Old 23rd July 2019, 18:50   #56925  |  Link
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check out the render profiles on page one 3rd post.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 19:28   #56926  |  Link
el Filou
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
if my card jumps between 1000 and 700 mhz the load is going crazy i would get number apart by more then 100 % for the same load making the matrix pretty inaccurate at best.
It keeps changing that much? That's interesting, on Adaptive mine always stabilizes after less than a minute on some clock/load combination, even with light stuff.
Maybe rendering and queue settings influence this.
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Old 24th July 2019, 04:26   #56927  |  Link
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Is there a madVR setting that increases playback FPS? When using LAV Filters Megamix mid-tier (NGU medium) preset, PotPlayer's OSD information displays this:

https://i.postimg.cc/Zb7hVpst/zuikaku-S9-YJb-KMTj-M.jpg

One line reads:

"Output: P010, 2048x1080(1.9:1/1.78:1), FPS: 23.976->59.94"

If I use another video renderer, e.g., EVR-CP, the FPS would read:

"23.976->23.976"

Just in case, madVR's OSD information displays this:

https://i.postimg.cc/Bs7mQM1f/zuikaku-c6-Xopp-Q0o2.jpg

If a madVR setting is increasing playback FPS, is that setting affected by the Windows version?

The reason I ask is using LAV Filters Megamix's mid-tier (NGU medium) preset on Windows 10 to watch anime gave me 60 FPS. I switched to Windows 8.1 for reasons, and the same preset gave me 30 FPS although now it is giving me 60 FPS, even though I made no changes.
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Old 24th July 2019, 06:13   #56928  |  Link
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Your refresh rate is 60Hz (you are asking your display to show 60fps), madVR in your particular case is blending frames AKA Smooth Motion (Seen enabled in your OSD)
If you are not blending frames this way say with another renderer, then you have judder as a result of having a 3:2 pulldown as frames are displayed in a 3-2 pattern.
Keep Smooth Motion on and enjoy, madVR is the best renderer available for your video content so stick with it.
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Old 24th July 2019, 08:00   #56929  |  Link
HillieSan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
the 2 finalsteps currently take about 2 ms.
to make math simple if you manage to reach 250 FPS with the giving setting you are currently loosing 50% of the performance to the finalsteps this is not an accurate representation of the card.
that a problem in game benchmarking too but it is far far less of an issue there we have way more steps then the finalsteps.

if my card jumps between 1000 and 700 mhz the load is going crazy i would get number apart by more then 100 % for the same load making the matrix pretty inaccurate at best.
I see. I remember that on my RX480 madvr did it’s job fine when I keep the latency below 15 ms (not sure if it was exactly 15 ms). Any swing of the clock didn’t matter as long as it stays around 15 ms. Is this useful for a benchmark? I had to keep the error dithering simple (I think ordered setting) to allow NGU high for most movies. This helped to drop the latence under the 15 ms. This latence was my reference for performance tuning.

Last edited by HillieSan; 24th July 2019 at 08:34.
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Old 24th July 2019, 09:05   #56930  |  Link
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Like Nev said the benchmark runs the card at full speed so clock speeds won't be a concern. Mostly we just want to test/compare NGU and HDR algorithm performance.
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Old 24th July 2019, 10:27   #56931  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Your refresh rate is 60Hz (you are asking your display to show 60fps), madVR in your particular case is blending frames AKA Smooth Motion (Seen enabled in your OSD)
Or switch refresh rate of the display to 23p if that's possible and turn smooth motion off.
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Old 24th July 2019, 12:08   #56932  |  Link
Shiroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Your refresh rate is 60Hz (you are asking your display to show 60fps), madVR in your particular case is blending frames AKA Smooth Motion (Seen enabled in your OSD)
If you are not blending frames this way say with another renderer, then you have judder as a result of having a 3:2 pulldown as frames are displayed in a 3-2 pattern.
Keep Smooth Motion on and enjoy, madVR is the best renderer available for your video content so stick with it.

So that is why I had judder when using video renderers other than madVR. madVR also has a setting to change automatically display modes. Can that setting replace Smooth Motion, and is it better or worse than Smooth Motion, which is to ask does Smooth Motion have downsides?
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Old 24th July 2019, 12:20   #56933  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros View Post
Or switch refresh rate of the display to 23p if that's possible and turn smooth motion off.
That's If he can, quite a few screens only run at 50 and 60hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
So that is why I had judder when using video renderers other than madVR.
Mostly, yes. It can replace Smooth Motion as chros mentioned but recommended only if you get good results from it.
Some may prefer Smooth Motion instead, if your screen can change refresh and if you can set it up so you don't get any frame drops or repeats
over the course of a typically watched video then the benefits are in motion quality. Smooth Motion blends frames so you you may notice a slight loss of picture sharpness with it enabled.

Last edited by ryrynz; 24th July 2019 at 12:32.
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Old 24th July 2019, 14:47   #56934  |  Link
el Filou
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Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
https://i.postimg.cc/Bs7mQM1f/zuikaku-c6-Xopp-Q0o2.jpg
The reason I ask is using LAV Filters Megamix's mid-tier (NGU medium) preset on Windows 10 to watch anime gave me 60 FPS. I switched to Windows 8.1 for reasons, and the same preset gave me 30 FPS although now it is giving me 60 FPS, even though I made no changes.
Is there a reason you're forcing NGU for 1080 source material on a 1080 display? Is the 'preset' you're talking about causing it to be forced on?
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Old 24th July 2019, 17:51   #56935  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
Is there a reason you're forcing NGU for 1080 source material on a 1080 display? Is the 'preset' you're talking about causing it to be forced on?
I have always used codec packs for their simplicity to achieve proper playback of and excellent picture quality when watching anime. I first used Kawaii Codec Pack, but I have since moved on to LAV Filters Megamix because the former is no longer maintained. I also prefer PotPlayer, which LAV Filters Megamix includes, to MPC-HC. During the installation process, one can select different presets based on their graphics card and the resolution of their display. I choose the preset closest to mine.

https://postimg.cc/qNYz8y85

https://postimg.cc/KKBvBVc1

I was using a 1600x900 monitor, but I have been using my 1920x1080 Smart TV since I switched to it recently for testing purposes.

I recently added a 1060 3GB to a Dell XPS 410, which initially resulted in problems, hence "testing purposes." I don't get any frame drops during playback, except in rare cases when an English translation replaces Japanese text in a video. I can think of only two instances when this has happened, both in the same series. Otherwise, I get frame drops temporarily only when exiting/entering fullscreen and seeking.

Do you have a suggestion?

Last edited by Shiroe; 24th July 2019 at 17:56.
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Old 24th July 2019, 18:56   #56936  |  Link
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Since it includes madVR presets that force NGU without scaling it makes me think that pack should not be used.

My recommendation is to reset madVR to defaults, only change a setting if it looks better to you or at least you know why you are changing it.
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Old 24th July 2019, 19:33   #56937  |  Link
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I've said for nearly 2 decades... codec packs are terrible! Sure, one download and set-it-and-forget-it is appealing, but too many problems arise. I will say it is a good way to dip your toes into the pond, but once you actually take the plunge, a codec pack is never something to go back to.

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Old 24th July 2019, 21:48   #56938  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post
Since it includes madVR presets that force NGU without scaling it makes me think that pack should not be used.

My recommendation is to reset madVR to defaults, only change a setting if it looks better to you or at least you know why you are changing it.
By "scaling," do you mean using profiles to configure NGU based on the resolution and framerate of content? Since I got a GTX 1060 3GB, when I install LAV Filters Megamix, I create profiles for SD, HD, and FullHD content. I use high settings for SD and HD content, but for FullHD content, I use LAV Filters Megamix's mid-end preset's NGU defaults because I have not needed to change it; a drop in framerate is infinitesimally rare during playback.

I see a difference in picture quality between LAV Filters Megamix's low-end and mid-end presets, at least. The former uses Bicubic50/ Catmull-Rom for chroma upscaling and Lanczos 3 taps for image upscaling without anti-ringing filters while the latter uses NGU Sharp medium for chroma upscaling and image upscaling.

NGU Sharp can make anime look very good, but it sharpens too much sometimes, so I recently began testing NGU Anti-alias, which seems common among people who use madVR to watch anime. Generally, I like sharpened anime because my eyesight is poor; a clear video is less eye-strenuous. I am still experimenting.
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Old 24th July 2019, 21:53   #56939  |  Link
Shiroe
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Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
I've said for nearly 2 decades... codec packs are terrible! Sure, one download and set-it-and-forget-it is appealing, but too many problems arise. I will say it is a good way to dip your toes into the pond, but once you actually take the plunge, a codec pack is never something to go back to.

QB
I have not had problems using Kawaii Codec Pack or LAV Filters Megamix. I have had problems when installing and configuring PotPlayer, madVR, LAV Filters, and AssFilterMod on my own.
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Old 24th July 2019, 22:33   #56940  |  Link
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By "scaling," do you mean using profiles to configure NGU based on the resolution and framerate of content?
No, I use many resolution and framerate profiles myself. By scaling I mean changing the resolution, i.e. resizing. Setting the Image Upscaling option "activate doubling / quadrupling" to "always - supersampling" is a bad idea. If you want to do upscaling refinements at a higher resolution it can be useful but as a normal default it is bad. I always use 1.5x/3.0x myself.

I agree, NGU AA is great for anime and NGU Sharp often makes anime look a bit "off"... for lack of a better description. Something is wrong with the edges. I like NGU Sharp with some very high quality anime but most anime blurays look better with NGU AA.

This is with a 2080 Ti on a LG C9 OLED from pretty close to the screen, NGU Sharp looks fine if I am much further away.

I link my madVR settings because people do ask for them but I recommend setting up madVR yourself. Any settings pack is going to pick something for a bad reason, at least for your system.

The reason you need average rendering times <15ms is for 60 fps content, to figure out the number for any particular frame rate simply divide 1000 by the framerate and then subtract a couple of ms for overhead. 1000/60 = 16.67 ms. With 24 fps content you can get away with much stronger settings, even 35ms or more should be fine, 1000/24 = 41.67 ms. Profiles for different frame rates are important, this pack's presets do not include any?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroe View Post
I have not had problems using Kawaii Codec Pack or LAV Filters Megamix.
Now you have.
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