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Old 18th April 2018, 17:23   #50261  |  Link
tzr916
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Upgraded to GTX1060 6GB advice please

My content is mostly 720p tv channels, a few 1080p channels, and a few 480p channels. Using JriverMC for comcast cablecard tuners, with GTX1060 6GB, passing signal through a Denon 4k receiver to a Sony 4k HDR Tv. I do NOT have any need for 3D or HDR. With the GT640, I just used basic settings like output @1080p with cubic scaling. Now that I have the GTX1060 6GB, looking for help/advice.

1. madVR sees the AVR fine. I manually added the Tv as display device, but it has no identification tab. Is that ok?

2. I have tried the latest nvidia drivers, but run into bad frame dropping and strange exclusive mode issues. So far, I have gone back to 388.59 to get the frame dropping stabilized, have not tested exclusive mode yet. Is anyone able to run the newer drivers (with JRiverMC)?

3. I already bumped chroma/image upscaling to Lanzcos which looks really good to me. Wondering if I can push that some more? Any suggestions?

4. Right now, I let my tv (Sony XBR-Z9D) upscale 1080p to 4k looks pretty darn good. Can the GTX1060 handle bumping output to 4k? Can I leave the desktop at 1080p and make madvr switch to 4k only when playing video? If I do that, does the JriverMC theater view GUI show up in 1080p or 4k? Exactly what madvr settings need to be changed/added to make that happen? Is it worth it? Should I just leave it at 1080p and focus on scaling/processing?
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Last edited by tzr916; 18th April 2018 at 17:28.
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Old 19th April 2018, 00:19   #50262  |  Link
Warner306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzr916 View Post
My content is mostly 720p tv channels, a few 1080p channels, and a few 480p channels. Using JriverMC for comcast cablecard tuners, with GTX1060 6GB, passing signal through a Denon 4k receiver to a Sony 4k HDR Tv. I do NOT have any need for 3D or HDR. With the GT640, I just used basic settings like output @1080p with cubic scaling. Now that I have the GTX1060 6GB, looking for help/advice.

1. madVR sees the AVR fine. I manually added the Tv as display device, but it has no identification tab. Is that ok?

2. I have tried the latest nvidia drivers, but run into bad frame dropping and strange exclusive mode issues. So far, I have gone back to 388.59 to get the frame dropping stabilized, have not tested exclusive mode yet. Is anyone able to run the newer drivers (with JRiverMC)?

3. I already bumped chroma/image upscaling to Lanzcos which looks really good to me. Wondering if I can push that some more? Any suggestions?

4. Right now, I let my tv (Sony XBR-Z9D) upscale 1080p to 4k looks pretty darn good. Can the GTX1060 handle bumping output to 4k? Can I leave the desktop at 1080p and make madvr switch to 4k only when playing video? If I do that, does the JriverMC theater view GUI show up in 1080p or 4k? Exactly what madvr settings need to be changed/added to make that happen? Is it worth it? Should I just leave it at 1080p and focus on scaling/processing?
1. madVR sees the device it is connected to via HDMI or otherwise. If it's the receiver, then that's fine. The display is likely connected to the receiver.

2. Drivers are the biggest headache in HTPC use because HTPC issues are often overlooked by GPU manufacturers in favor of video game use. If you find a driver that works for you, stick with it, unless you also play video games. You don't need exclusive mode if it is giving you trouble. Windowed mode will offer you identical performance for madVR rendering.

3. With your graphics card, you could easily use NGU image doubling. Either NGU Anti-Alias or NGU Sharp are recommended depending on the quality of the content you are watching. NGU is the best family of image scalers in madVR.

4. madVR is a vastly superior upscaler to your TV. Any other scenario wastes the power of your graphics card. Set the following in display modes: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60. That way, all content with be upscaled to 4K UHD by madVR. That is the preferred set-up. It is also advisable to set your desktop to 3840 x 2160p.

If you want more set up information, try the link in my signature.
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Old 19th April 2018, 01:05   #50263  |  Link
tzr916
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Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
...Set the following in display modes: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60. That way, all content with be upscaled to 4K UHD by madVR. That is the preferred set-up. It is also advisable to set your desktop to 3840 x 2160p...
Excellent help, I will try this very soon! Small question-

If I set the desktop to 3840x2160p, do I really need to put those display modes into madVR? Wouldn't madVR just output/upscale everything to 2160p when the desktop is set to 3840x2160p?

Thank you.
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Old 19th April 2018, 01:30   #50264  |  Link
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If everything is being deinterlaced into 50p or 60p, then you may have trouble using more aggressive settings in madVR. I haven’t watched any interlaced sources in years, so I can’t remember how this is communicated in the msdVR OSD. Nor do I know if your local broadcasters broadcast in 1080i or 720p. The SD channels will most likely be interlaced.

Last edited by Warner306; 19th April 2018 at 16:26.
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Old 19th April 2018, 02:36   #50265  |  Link
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I don’t think you can output a TV channel at 24p because of the variable frame rate, so you might as well output everything at 60hz or 50hz if you’re in Europe. So leave display modes blank. Set the desktop to 3840 x 2160p 8bpc RGB Full. Set madVR to 8 bits. Set your display’s HDMI black level to full range to match the GPU.

It is also likely the 1080p channel is 1080i, the 720p channel is 720p and the 480p channel is 480i. The performance requirements placed on madVR will be very different depending on the channel, so it is good to make separate profiles under scaling for 1080p, 720p and SD. There are some suggested profiles in the link in my signature. Smooth motion might also be useful if you are outputting everything at 60hz.

The interlaced frame rates will double after deinterlacing, while the progressive frame rates will not. This difference in frame rates places different loads on madVR's rendering.

Last edited by Warner306; 19th April 2018 at 03:51.
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Old 19th April 2018, 04:14   #50266  |  Link
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1080 is usual interlanced as broadcast progressive is really rare.
and there is a big issue when you use nvidia for deinterlancing is is really really bad at it.

so think about YADIF in lavfilter for "better" quality.

NGU low to mid and super xbr will work fine at 60 fps with that card if the rest is default.
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Old 19th April 2018, 07:00   #50267  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Manni View Post
Quick update on nVidia drivers status:

If you’re not a gamer or want Asio4all, then 385.28 is the last fully working option.
Appreciate the time you put into this, thanks. Nvidia are pretty poor with their driver development, they seem to break levels and 12 bit settings fairly often.
I hope someone has given them a what's what in the forum over their constant poor coding performance.
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Old 19th April 2018, 10:39   #50268  |  Link
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Considering AMD drivers are far from perfect as well, both lack motivation to really put an effort into fixing theirs...
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:58   #50269  |  Link
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My experience with AMD drivers are good. They are pretty stable for a long time. I have experienced some minor issues/improvements in the past, but no show stoppers. AMD is doing a good job. Most issues I had with MadVR where fixed by an update of MadVR or Lav filter

I am quite happy with my RX 480. The only thing I am hoping for is that the performance of NGU will be improved for AMD.
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Old 19th April 2018, 13:50   #50270  |  Link
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I think you'd be waiting for newer architecture, my guess is if they could've eeked out some serious gains in that area it would've been done by now.
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Old 19th April 2018, 13:56   #50271  |  Link
xabregas
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So any news on fixing exclusive mode in windows 10. Or any windows 10 hidden setting that might be in the way of allowing madvr or any 3d app to control the Full Screen???

Exclusive mode for me is the only thing tha gives me the best PQ and performance.

Last edited by xabregas; 19th April 2018 at 13:59.
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Old 19th April 2018, 15:10   #50272  |  Link
tzr916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner306 View Post
....you might as well output everything at 60hz or 50hz if you’re in Europe. So leave display modes blank. Set the desktop to 3840 x 2160p 8bpc RGB Full. Set madVR to 8 bits. Set your display’s HDMI black level to full range to match the GPU.

It is also likely the 1080p channel is 1080i, the 720p channel is 720p and the 480p channel is 480i. The performance requirements placed on madVR will be very different depending on the channel, so it is good to make separate profiles under scaling for 1080p, 720p and SD...
I'm in USA using Comcast cablecard. Looking at my tv channel frame rates using CTRL+J:
1080 @29.970
720 @59.940
480 @29.970

Not sure how to identify if it's interlaced or progressive?
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Old 19th April 2018, 15:38   #50273  |  Link
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Originally Posted by HillieSan View Post
My experience with AMD drivers are good. They are pretty stable for a long time. I have experienced some minor issues/improvements in the past, but no show stoppers. AMD is doing a good job. Most issues I had with MadVR where fixed by an update of MadVR or Lav filter

I am quite happy with my RX 480. The only thing I am hoping for is that the performance of NGU will be improved for AMD.
out of interest, are you outputting to a 4k HDR tv?
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Old 19th April 2018, 16:37   #50274  |  Link
Warner306
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Originally Posted by tzr916 View Post
I'm in USA using Comcast cablecard. Looking at my tv channel frame rates using CTRL+J:
1080 @29.970
720 @59.940
480 @29.970

Not sure how to identify if it's interlaced or progressive?
Sorry, I didn't read your initial message carefully enough, so my last two posts were not as clear as they needed to be.

The 1080 @ 29.97 is likely a 1080i60 broadcast. The interlaced field rate of 60i is equal to 29.97 fps. The interlaced field rate shows two half frames, which combine to make one full frame. madVR should deinterlace this by matching each half frame with a new frame to make it 59.94 fps progressive.

The 720 @ 59.94 is a 720p60 progressive broadcast. I thought madVR might read this as 29.97 fps, as it is 29.97 x 2. At any rate, no conversion is necessary because it is a progressive signal.

The 480 @ 29.97 is likely a 480i60 broadcast. The interlaced field rate is deinterlaced by matching each half frame with a new frame to make it 59.94 fps progressive.

For the interlaced channels, the OSD should report deinterlacing as "on" and show a movie frame interval of 16ms (which means it is outputting 59.94 fps) as well deinterlacing should show in the rendering section at the bottom.

huhn recommended using YADIF deinterlacing in LAV Video. I'm not sure if you have to disable deinterlacing in madVR. Deinterlacing can be done by the decoder, video renderer or display. LAV Filters is probably the best option here. With LAV doing the deinterlacing, madVR should report the frame rate as 59.94 fps.

In practice, the output frame rate will always be 60 fps, so this shouldn't impact your madVR performance too much from source to source. You still might benefit from creating separate profiles for your content.

Here are some profile rules if you want to use them. I wrote them in a way that accounts for non-standard resolutions.

Create these profiles under "scaling":

if (srcWidth > 1280) "1080p"
else if (srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight > 720) "1080p"

else if (srcWidth > 960) and (srcWidth <= 1280) "720p"
else if (srcWidth <= 960) and ((srcHeight > 540) and (srcHeight <= 720)) "720p"

else if (srcWidth <= 960) and (srcHeight <= 540) "SD"

Set the desktop to 3840 x 2160p, 8bpc, RGB Full. Set madVR to 8 bits. Set your display’s HDMI black level to full range to match the GPU. You could also try toggling smooth motion and see if you like it. As stated, NGU low to mid or super-xbr are good choices for scaling.

Last edited by Warner306; 19th April 2018 at 18:06.
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Old 19th April 2018, 18:29   #50275  |  Link
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out of interest, are you outputting to a 4k HDR tv?
Mclingo,

I know from here and on the dsplayer forum, you have had both color mapping and clipping issues, as I have (hdr and non-hdr).

After much hair pulling, I managed to get to the bottom of it on my set-up.

I always thought that the best setup was Madvr Full Range, GPU RGB full range and Tv set at full range.

However, on my Samsung 4k suhd ks8000 set, this resulted in the wrong color mapping and clipping in blacks and whites, for non-hdr, which was further amplified for hdr material especially,

On my set up, what fixed my issue was changing to the following settings -

MadVR - Full Range

GPU - Limited ycbcr 4.4.4 at 12 bit for 23.976 (custom mode, ycbcr 4.4.4 8bit at anything above 30hz) and NOT rgb full range.

TV - HDMI Black Level set to Low/Limited (I can only assume that, as with my Samsung set, once it is receiving ycbcr 4.4.4, the option to chose between Normal/Low or Full/Limited is disabled).

This may, or maynot on your set up help (along with one of my previous posts regarding disabling the windows color management system).

All the best,

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 19th April 2018 at 18:36.
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Old 19th April 2018, 19:52   #50276  |  Link
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Mclingo,

I know from here and on the dsplayer forum, you have had both color mapping and clipping issues, as I have (hdr and non-hdr).

After much hair pulling, I managed to get to the bottom of it on my set-up.

I always thought that the best setup was Madvr Full Range, GPU RGB full range and Tv set at full range.

However, on my Samsung 4k suhd ks8000 set, this resulted in the wrong color mapping and clipping in blacks and whites, for non-hdr, which was further amplified for hdr material especially,

On my set up, what fixed my issue was changing to the following settings -

MadVR - Full Range

GPU - Limited ycbcr 4.4.4 at 12 bit for 23.976 (custom mode, ycbcr 4.4.4 8bit at anything above 30hz) and NOT rgb full range.

TV - HDMI Black Level set to Low/Limited (I can only assume that, as with my Samsung set, once it is receiving ycbcr 4.4.4, the option to chose between Normal/Low or Full/Limited is disabled).

This may, or maynot on your set up help (along with one of my previous posts regarding disabling the windows color management system).

All the best,

K
And BTW, before anyone gets all elitist on my backside (which, I am ashamed to say, is prevalent is this forum), I was the product/firmware tester for the Tomacro limHD200i when we were trying to figure out how the hell to get MKV's to play on a hardware device, and I cracked it....Madshi was on that forum back in 2007....

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-net...r-h-264-a.html.......me? Oldpainless68.

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 19th April 2018 at 19:55.
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Old 19th April 2018, 21:50   #50277  |  Link
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what's your point?
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Old 19th April 2018, 21:56   #50278  |  Link
oldpainlesskodi
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what's your point?
Sorry, not sure if that was aimed at me, but if so

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NewGlitter...use-mobile.mp4


In the way back time machine, I sold all my VHS tapes and went Laser disk with a Pioneer CLD-D925, and had an issue about how to get true AC3, and by going on a forum. I learnt I needed an RF Demodulater...

Forums are there to share experiences, and learn - the moment anyone is slapped down (or worse, treated with disdain) by someone that consider's they know everything, it all falls apart.

I love what Madshi has done for the AV community that care about PQ quality - he has done (along with Nev) some amazing work - if everyone knew all the answer's, do you think MadVr or Lav filters would have been coded?

Anyways, onward and upwards.

K

Last edited by oldpainlesskodi; 19th April 2018 at 22:19.
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Old 19th April 2018, 23:46   #50279  |  Link
mclingo
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Originally Posted by oldpainlesskodi View Post
Mclingo,

I know from here and on the dsplayer forum, you have had both color mapping and clipping issues, as I have (hdr and non-hdr).

After much hair pulling, I managed to get to the bottom of it on my set-up.

I always thought that the best setup was Madvr Full Range, GPU RGB full range and Tv set at full range.

However, on my Samsung 4k suhd ks8000 set, this resulted in the wrong color mapping and clipping in blacks and whites, for non-hdr, which was further amplified for hdr material especially,

On my set up, what fixed my issue was changing to the following settings -

MadVR - Full Range

GPU - Limited ycbcr 4.4.4 at 12 bit for 23.976 (custom mode, ycbcr 4.4.4 8bit at anything above 30hz) and NOT rgb full range.

TV - HDMI Black Level set to Low/Limited (I can only assume that, as with my Samsung set, once it is receiving ycbcr 4.4.4, the option to chose between Normal/Low or Full/Limited is disabled).

This may, or maynot on your set up help (along with one of my previous posts regarding disabling the windows color management system).

All the best,

K
thanks for the update but I fixed mine the other day by installing an older driver, then dropping back to a newer one, 18.2.2, i'm staying on this driver for now as my PC is just for movies and internet as I'm never chasing newer drivers for gaming etc.

As it currently stands everything works as expected with no need for custom res or funky setups, however i'm currently in 4:2:0. Ill be going back to 444 permanently when I'm fully happy my system is stable.

The reason Im not using 18.3x drivers is that they cause my PC to hang intermittently and randomly.

ive not noticed any clipping in HDR though, my only issue was the blown out reds.
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Old 20th April 2018, 00:04   #50280  |  Link
HillieSan
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out of interest, are you outputting to a 4k HDR tv?

yes I am, to a Samsung 49KS7000 and a JVC X5000 4K projector. I use HDR only for HDR movies.

Last edited by HillieSan; 20th April 2018 at 08:31.
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