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Old 30th June 2013, 07:06   #19381  |  Link
nevcairiel
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My TV also loses some of its features when i run it in game mode, so i don't bother and let it run in Cinema mode instead, which means only 4:2:2 but instead i get its clear motion features, which do help a lot on 24p content.
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Old 30th June 2013, 07:55   #19382  |  Link
Andy o
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Originally Posted by truexfan81 View Post
yay, they are the same color on my video monitor
They are the same color on my Pioneer Kuro KRP-500 as well, but it's displaying 4:2:0.
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Old 30th June 2013, 08:40   #19383  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post
They are the same color on my Pioneer Kuro KRP-500 as well, but it's displaying 4:2:0.
Wow, I remembered problems resolving detail on the Kuros, but I didn't remember them downsampling chroma to 4:2:0. If it's really doing that, then it will be blurring both halves of the image rather than just the right hand side. (both are probably a dark purple rather than magenta-ish?)

For anyone else wanting to check that their display is not downsampling to 4:2:0, get up close and you should be able to see that the left half is actually made up of alternating red and blue lines.
4:2:2 blurs horizontally, so they should be unaffected. The checkerboard pattern on the right is affected with 4:2:2, but not 4:4:4, which is why it should appear darker if your set is processing chroma in 4:2:2.

A display downsampling chroma to 4:2:0 is a very rare case though - typically it will be 4:2:2 or 4:4:4.

It would be interesting to go back and have a look over one of those sets again today. I had one when they came out, but ended up returning it for a number of different reasons.
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Old 30th June 2013, 11:16   #19384  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Chroma is always scaled to the luma resolution, and then the image is scaled using your luma settings, so chroma performance shouldn't change no matter what resolution you are scaling the video to.

Downsampling 4K using Catmull-Rom, Linear Light scaling, and Anti-ringing may give the best quality, but it's very demanding.

What is GPU load like on your system if you disable linear light scaling and anti-ringing?
Good point.

Using Jinc3+AR chroma and only Catmull-Rom (no AR, LL, or 3DLUT) down-scaling I get a steady 75% GPU usage @1006MHz, 82% @836MHz.

Using Nearest Neighbor on GPU texture units for down-scaling I get 71% @1006MHz, and 77% @836MHz which should be a good approximation for native 2160p out. It is still not easy but there is more headroom.

Last edited by Asmodian; 30th June 2013 at 11:24.
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Old 1st July 2013, 12:56   #19385  |  Link
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What are the pros/cons of disabling "use inverse telecine" in the nvidia control panel? With madvr now having its own version of ivtc should i just leave the option unchecked?
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Old 1st July 2013, 12:56   #19386  |  Link
Moragg
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Hi madshi,

Just posting to say thanks, and a quick question:

GPU usage isn't going above 57% yet I still get dropped frames. This is Jinc3+AR+SmoothMotion

Upping it to Jinc8 AR uses the whole 100%, so why can't it use 100% at Jinc3 to not drop frames?

Just SM uses 35%, Just Jinc3+AR uses 41%, so surely my card should be able to do both together?

I have a 7870 Tahiti LE, stock clocks. CPU is a 1055T (hex core 2.8GHz) if that is causing a bottleneck.
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Old 1st July 2013, 13:19   #19387  |  Link
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Moragg, is that with Fullscreen exclusive mode?
Also try Bicubic 75 for Chroma, Jinc 3 3taps for Chroma can be a bit overkill.
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Old 1st July 2013, 13:31   #19388  |  Link
Moragg
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Moragg, is that with Fullscreen exclusive mode?
Also try Bicubic 75 for Chroma, Jinc 3 3taps for Chroma can be a bit overkill.
I turned fullscreen exclusive off since I didn't like it.

It may be overkill, but the vast majority of what I watch is anime and that works perfectly with my settings.

But with this video usage should go up to ~80% - it staying at 57% is the problem that is causing dropped frames. I just wondered if this was a madvr problem or physical limitation of my GPU (though madvr used 100% with Jinc8).
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Old 1st July 2013, 18:57   #19389  |  Link
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It may be overkill, but the vast majority of what I watch is anime and that works perfectly with my settings.
it's not an over kill i use an 6770 with jinc 3 ar /jinc 3 ar.

it doesn't make sense that animes work and "not anime" not madvr doesn't care about the content. maybe 60i content or 480p?

make a screen from the osd control + j and post it here.

your cpu is not the problem!
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Old 1st July 2013, 20:36   #19390  |  Link
Moragg
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post

it doesn't make sense that animes work and "not anime" not madvr doesn't care about the content. maybe 60i content or 480p?

your cpu is not the problem!
It's more that anime is "easier" to scale.

OSD is attached
Name:  Moraggtest.jpg
Views: 2056
Size:  181.1 KB
48fps 1080p, I know that should be hard to upscale to 1440p and smooth motion.

I wouldn't mind if my card was running 100%, but it doesn't even reach 60% and madvr's dropping frames instead of using the other 40%.
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Old 1st July 2013, 21:22   #19391  |  Link
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I had the same issue (dropped frames even though resources were free) and it turned out to be related to the CPU (decoding) queue. Try increasing it in madvr settings. Can't see your attachment since it's pending approval, but try keeping an eye on the queues and see if any drops to 0
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Old 1st July 2013, 22:13   #19392  |  Link
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Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
On a display which supports full chroma resolution, both halves of this image should be roughly the same magenta color.

On a display which only supports 4:2:2, the right half of the image will be a much darker color. The difference should be obvious, not subtle.

This pattern will only work when it is shown at 100% size on a 1:1 mapped display. Click the image for a full 1920x1080 pattern.
Well that did the trick! Thanks. I have done other tests that suggested it was not 4:4:4, but this test is very conclusive! The right side of the image is clearly darker, no if's and's or but's! Now I know 100% for sure, even though I was 99% sure before

The only other question I have about the test is... does the rectangular pixels affect the result?

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Old 1st July 2013, 22:48   #19393  |  Link
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Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
What are the pros/cons of disabling "use inverse telecine" in the nvidia control panel? With madvr now having its own version of ivtc should i just leave the option unchecked?
Leave it checked. The pro is that the nvidia one works automatically. The con is that if you are using madvr to change display modes (1080p23 for example), madvr won't know that ivtc is being done and will choose the wrong refresh rate.

Now, the madvr one works well with the display mode switching, but you have to manually enable it. Also, if you are using an intel atom or similiar, you will have issues with 1080i since madvr's ivtc runs on the cpu.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 00:08   #19394  |  Link
Moragg
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Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
I had the same issue (dropped frames even though resources were free) and it turned out to be related to the CPU (decoding) queue. Try increasing it in madvr settings. Can't see your attachment since it's pending approval, but try keeping an eye on the queues and see if any drops to 0
Okay, setting CPU queue to 128 helped - at one point the queue fell to 40/128
All the points were playback would "hang" had this problem (though none that badly).

However, smooth motion doesn't make any difference to the CPU queue - I can scale up slightly from the original without issue but after a point I start dropping frames - this time with GPU running at 45%.

Running a low bitrate anime through with smooth motion Jinc3+AR:

1x speed: stable 23% GPU usage
2x speed: stable 47% GPU usage
4x speed: no dropped/delayed frames, but extremely unstable, peaking at 95%.

The problem video Jinc3+AR, 1x speed:
Original Size: extremely unstable between 2% and 37%, doesn't go anywhere in between.
Slightly larger: stable 39%
Larger: stable up to 44%
Even larger: frame drops, but still stable up to 56% (increases with size).

I'm very as to the problem.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 00:20   #19395  |  Link
6233638
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Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
Well that did the trick! Thanks. I have done other tests that suggested it was not 4:4:4, but this test is very conclusive! The right side of the image is clearly darker, no if's and's or but's! Now I know 100% for sure, even though I was 99% sure before
I'm not sure if that was a typo, but if the right side is darker, then it's 4:2:2

Here's a couple of quick photos from my Sony TV for reference. (note: the camera colors are wrong, the pattern appears darker on my screen than it looks here)

PC/Game mode. (4:4:4)


And Cinema mode. (4:2:2)


I threw the lens out of focus so you're only looking at the color and not the pixels.
When you are looking at the pattern normally, there is a slight difference between both halves in PC/Game mode (4:4:4) but that is to be expected.
The difference with 4:2:2 chroma should be an obvious one, as the photos illustrate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
The only other question I have about the test is... does the rectangular pixels affect the result?
It shouldn't make a difference. Chroma resolution is related to image processing, not the pixel structure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Moragg View Post
Okay, setting CPU queue to 128 helped - at one point the queue fell to 40/128
All the points were playback would "hang" had this problem (though none that badly).
Are you using software decoding, or hardware decoding? If you're using hardware decoding, what are you using?

Is deinterlacing active?
Are these 10-bit files? (requires software decoding, and some systems have difficulty with them apparently)

Last edited by 6233638; 2nd July 2013 at 00:27.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 00:25   #19396  |  Link
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Leave it checked. The pro is that the nvidia one works automatically. The con is that if you are using madvr to change display modes (1080p23 for example), madvr won't know that ivtc is being done and will choose the wrong refresh rate.

Now, the madvr one works well with the display mode switching, but you have to manually enable it. Also, if you are using an intel atom or similiar, you will have issues with 1080i since madvr's ivtc runs on the cpu.
I do use madvr to auto switch display modes. Should i still leave ivtc checked in the nvidia control panel then? I have an i7 cpu so cpu power is not an issue.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 00:44   #19397  |  Link
dansrfe
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Is it normal for madVR to only detect one of my two connected and identical make/model monitors? I only see one device in madVR's device list...

Last edited by dansrfe; 2nd July 2013 at 01:36.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 01:52   #19398  |  Link
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Link on first page downloads .86.4. I was able to get .86.6 from the old versions link.
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Old 2nd July 2013, 02:06   #19399  |  Link
pie1394
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Originally Posted by Moragg View Post
It's more that anime is "easier" to scale.

OSD is attached
Attachment 13566
48fps 1080p, I know that should be hard to upscale to 1440p and smooth motion.

I wouldn't mind if my card was running 100%, but it doesn't even reach 60% and madvr's dropping frames instead of using the other 40%.
What is your flush setting? If you turn off all of them, what rendering time does it show? With 120Hz output mode, it is obviously that the rendering time needs be less than 8.333 ms -- usually much safe with the value near 5 ~ 6ms.

How about the case with 60Hz output mode?
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Old 2nd July 2013, 02:59   #19400  |  Link
mindbomb
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Originally Posted by njfoses View Post
I do use madvr to auto switch display modes. Should i still leave ivtc checked in the nvidia control panel then? I have an i7 cpu so cpu power is not an issue.
if you are gonna be using madVR's ivtc, i think it is irrelevant whether you check it or not. Remember, the hotkey to enable it is ctrl+alt+shift+T, and it doesn't work with dxva native afaik.
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