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Old 24th February 2019, 15:31   #54961  |  Link
huhn
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cropping doesn't change the AR.

so crop both sides will result in scaling if not you will not scale.
if you setup your player to deform your image it will "always" scale.

if your source file doesn't match your device AR use an profile.
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Old 24th February 2019, 15:38   #54962  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huhn View Post
cropping doesn't change the AR.

so crop both sides will result in scaling if not you will not scale.
if you setup your player to deform your image it will "always" scale.

if your source file doesn't match your device AR use an profile.
I'm not trying to match a target aspect ratio.

For example. If I got a 2.x : 1 movie. It's got both vertical and horizontal bars.

But the Vertical bars are only 2-3 pixels wide

I definitely want to crop the Normal Big Horizontal bars.

This allows for Pushing NGU Luma to Very High vs High. That's good. Render time 35ms

But now if the Detection works on the Vertical Bars again, it will add Lanczos Ontop of NGU VH, pushing render time to 40+ms.
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Old 24th February 2019, 15:58   #54963  |  Link
huhn
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try it out disabling scaling doesn't mean disabling cropping.
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:11   #54964  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
try it out disabling scaling doesn't mean disabling cropping.
Here's what happening

the 1080 is going to 816, Want

the 1920 is going to 1918, Do not Want, adds Lanczos ontop of NGU(vh)

The scaling option you recommended doesn't seem to impact this.

https://imgur.com/a/v2m18bc
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:18   #54965  |  Link
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There is an option to ignore small changes by X pixel, did you enable that?
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:30   #54966  |  Link
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
There is an option to ignore small changes by X pixel, did you enable that?
Are you refering to the first option on the zoom page, disable scaling if .... lines
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:37   #54967  |  Link
huhn
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Originally Posted by nevcairiel View Post
There is an option to ignore small changes by X pixel, did you enable that?
which clearly works if madVR isn't doing 2x scaling. i don't have a test file to see if madVR still doesn't do that after scaling.
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:39   #54968  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
which clearly works if madVR isn't doing 2x scaling. i don't have a test file to see if madVR still doesn't do that after scaling.
So, it's the 2x scaling causing the issue, and it SHOULD work if not for the NGU ? This isn't the result of the vertical cropping ?
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:44   #54969  |  Link
huhn
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i don't have a test file i don't know and i clearly don't know what madshi things about this or what supposed to happen in this case.

if our don't use an x2 scaling leaving the boarders is just pointless.
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:46   #54970  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
No, you still get your money's worth , it will just look slightly more blurry because interframes are blended.

It smooths out judder for people who are very bothered by judder.

I personally don't mind judder, because heck 24fps itself is almost a slideshow, why bother with judder removal.
Good to know.
My TV has judder problems by nature,so it's useful I guess.
Never done an A B,just use it since introduced and can't see anything wrong.I am used to the ''blur'' it seems and find it normal.
Thank you.
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Old 24th February 2019, 16:57   #54971  |  Link
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Originally Posted by huhn View Post
i don't have a test file i don't know and i clearly don't know what madshi things about this or what supposed to happen in this case.

if our don't use an x2 scaling leaving the boarders is just pointless.
Well, I'm sure some people are OK with vertical bars because they're usually small on wide screen movies.

Because if we're to assume NGU already produces the best image, Why would we want Another Scaling layer Lanczos ontop of that JUST to get rid of a 2 pixel vertical bar ?


That is to say, the bestest bacon of the madvr system is NGU, so we're moving all our eggs to optimize performance for this feature. The lanczos cutting 2pixel vertical bar is good, but it's like kale, yea it's healthy, but we showed up at the picnic for bacon. ?
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 24th February 2019 at 17:09.
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Old 24th February 2019, 18:27   #54972  |  Link
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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
No, you still get your money's worth , it will just look slightly more blurry because interframes are blended.

It smooths out judder for people who are very bothered by judder.

I personally don't mind judder, because heck 24fps itself is almost a slideshow, why bother with judder removal.
Judder is the worst motion I can imagine. I had it before modern 120Hz, 144Hz, 240Hz displays. 24fps isn't a slideshow. 60Hz displays are - resulting in pulldown. I tried madVR SM once. It appeared to still have judder just at a faster rate but I might have not optimized everything for it perfectly. I prefer 240Hz with modern interpolation algo. Smooth as butter including slow pans and no visible wrong guesses. Motion handling as good as gets for the time being...
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Old 24th February 2019, 19:02   #54973  |  Link
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Just tested some more movies. Surprisingly QUITE MANY will cause the blackbar detection to crop 1920 down to 1919 or 1918 which causes the subsequent 2nd phase upscaling to kick in.. After NGU already upscales..

Darn tootn'

NGU (High) -> Lanczos AR

the disable scaling option doesn't work.
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Last edited by tp4tissue; 24th February 2019 at 19:20.
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Old 25th February 2019, 18:31   #54974  |  Link
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Hey,

Has anyone else experienced problems with MPC-HC crashing when moving it to another screen? (using madvr to playback output)
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Old 25th February 2019, 19:37   #54975  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Just tested some more movies. Surprisingly QUITE MANY will cause the blackbar detection to crop 1920 down to 1919 or 1918
the disable scaling option doesn't work.
Yes, a configurable option like "crop black bars of at least <x> lines" would be useful for 1920-wide sources, ideally with different settings for vertical and horizontal.
I'd even say the setting would be best if it could be specified as a ‰age of the picture dimensions instead of number of lines, that way you could just get rid of the "disable scaling if image changes by <x> lines only" (although I doubt UHD sources still have small vertical black bars, but you never know).
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Old 25th February 2019, 21:58   #54976  |  Link
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I think pixel lines would still be best for the option, I would even like it if was the same "disable scaling if image size changes by only" option but applied to post doubling scaling as well. It could also be relative to the screen itself, the number of extra black lines allowed on the display before scaling activates, and do the check at each instance of image scaling (e.g. before lanczos scaling after doubling). Anamorphic is a little more complicated but I would prefer to not check this until after fixing the aspect ratio.
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Old 26th February 2019, 02:37   #54977  |  Link
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I think pixel lines would still be best for the option, I would even like it if was the same "disable scaling if image size changes by only" option but applied to post doubling scaling as well. It could also be relative to the screen itself, the number of extra black lines allowed on the display before scaling activates, and do the check at each instance of image scaling (e.g. before lanczos scaling after doubling). Anamorphic is a little more complicated but I would prefer to not check this until after fixing the aspect ratio.
Checking too many times is bad, because it doesn't seem to be a 100% reliable process. It may crop by an extra pixel or 2.

So, I think disabling Vertical check is best, because with horizontal we almost always have room to safely crop, whereas with vertical it could be risky.

I tried another file today, the detection cropped 3840x2160 to 3878, but because it was not doing NGU double, the Ignore scaling function did work in this case.

It's the 1920x1080 crops which cause issues when ngu to 3840.
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Old 26th February 2019, 04:06   #54978  |  Link
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It's not "because it was not doing NGU double", it's simply because it didn't have to scale at all as instructed by the setting in question. It compared 3838 or 3828 or whatever (3878 was a typo, right?) to 3840 and sees it's less than the max number of lines under which it can avoid scaling and doesn't scale.
When it compares 1918 after crop to 3840, it concludes "well this image needs to change more than 50 lines after cropping so let's scale"
Using a doubler in your upscaling then just makes the problem worse, but NGU is not the root cause.
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Old 26th February 2019, 05:09   #54979  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
It's not "because it was not doing NGU double", it's simply because it didn't have to scale at all as instructed by the setting in question. It compared 3838 or 3828 or whatever (3878 was a typo, right?) to 3840 and sees it's less than the max number of lines under which it can avoid scaling and doesn't scale.
When it compares 1918 after crop to 3840, it concludes "well this image needs to change more than 50 lines after cropping so let's scale"
Using a doubler in your upscaling then just makes the problem worse, but NGU is not the root cause.

I'm not actually sure if it's just ngu, i haven't tested that.

But I think it's prolly just coming up short after cropping to 1918 or 1919, after doubling, short of 3840.

But with 3840x2160, I have a file, it'd crop to 3839, detection works here, even though chroma is also NGU.

So I guess it all comes down to whether there is a second round of scaling. the first round is detected properly
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Old 26th February 2019, 08:49   #54980  |  Link
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Anyone compared a Geforce 2060 to a 1080 with madVR?
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