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Old 21st January 2004, 12:57   #161  |  Link
satori
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karl_lillevold:

Thank you very much for your tutorial.Now I replaced every tools are latest.It is work now.
But another problem is mka input plugin of foobar2000 does not play this .mka files.It can play mpc or another directshow players.
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Old 21st January 2004, 13:23   #162  |  Link
hellfred
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mkv with vorbis audio

@jcsston: I am just curiouse. Will you add vorbis as possible audio codec for your Matroska output plugin. (mkv and mka?)
I do am content with having HE AAC as audio codec (), but up to now i was little bit sad that, though producer supports the nice and open audio codec vorbis, it can only be used for audio-only encodes.
I thought that might be a problem with the container rm because of unsolved problems muxing rv40 video and vorbis audio.
So i hoped to avoid this trouble by using your output-plugin.
But it does not work.
Do you planed to add vorbis, is there a limitation in producer that prefents the use of vorbis together with video or did i just make a mistake?

VideoVorbis.rpjf:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<job xmlns="http://ns.real.com/tools/job.2.0"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://ns.real.com/tools/job.2.0 http://ns.real.com/tools/job.2.0.xsd">
<disableLoadManagement type="bool">false</disableLoadManagement>
<enableTwoPass type="bool">true</enableTwoPass>
<clipInfo>
<entry>
<name>Allow Recording</name>
<value type="bool">true</value>
</entry>
<entry>
<name>Generated By</name>
<value type="string">Helix DNA(TM) Producer 10.0 for Windows, Build 10.0.0.74</value>
</entry>
</clipInfo>
<input xsi:type="avFileInput">
<filename type="string">RahXephon.avi</filename>
<name type="string">home_video_test</name>
</input>
<parOutputs>
<output>
<destinations>
<destination xsi:type="fileDestination">
<filename type="string">RahXephon_vorbis.mkv</filename>
<name type="string">home_video_test</name>
<pluginName type="string">rn-file-mkv</pluginName>
</destination>
</destinations>
<mediaProfile>
<audioMode type="string">music</audioMode>
<disableAudio type="bool">false</disableAudio>
<disableVideo type="bool">false</disableVideo>
<outputHeight type="uint">0</outputHeight>
<outputWidth type="uint">0</outputWidth>
<resizeQuality type="string">high</resizeQuality>
<videoMode type="string">normal</videoMode>
<audienceRefs>
<audienceRef>VorbisTest</audienceRef>
</audienceRefs>
</mediaProfile>
</output>
</parOutputs>
<audiences>
<audience>
<avgBitrate type="uint">450000</avgBitrate>
<maxBitrate type="uint">1500000</maxBitrate>
<name type="string">VorbisTest</name>
<streams>
<stream xsi:type="videoStream">
<codecName type="string">rv10</codecName>
<enableLossProtection type="bool">false</enableLossProtection>
<encodingComplexity type="string">high</encodingComplexity>
<encodingType type="string">vbrBitrate</encodingType>
<maxFrameRate type="double">30.000000</maxFrameRate>
<maxKeyFrameInterval type="double">10.000000</maxKeyFrameInterval>
<maxStartupLatency type="double">60.000000</maxStartupLatency>
<pluginName type="string">rn-videocodec-realvideo</pluginName>
<quality type="uint">30</quality>
</stream>
<stream xsi:type="audioStream">
<codecFlavor type="uint">7</codecFlavor>
<codecName type="string">vorbis</codecName>
<pluginName type="string">rn-audiocodec-vorbis</pluginName>
<streamContext type="bag">
<audioMode type="string">music</audioMode>
<presentationType type="string">audio-video</presentationType>
</streamContext>
</stream>
<stream xsi:type="audioStream">
<codecFlavor type="uint">7</codecFlavor>
<pluginName type="string">rn-audiocodec-vorbis</pluginName>
<codecName type="string">vorbis</codecName>
<streamContext type="bag">
<audioMode type="string">music</audioMode>
<presentationType type="string">audio-only</presentationType>
</streamContext>
</stream>
</streams>
</audience>
</audiences>
</job>

producer.exe -j VideoVorbis.rpjf -lc "e,i,w,d" >out.txt

...

Diagnostic: Using VorbisTest Audience
Diagnostic: Using video codec: rv10 (322000 bps)
Warning: Unrecognized property analysisFile provided to the Vorbis Codec.
Diagnostic: Using audio codec: vorbis (128000 bps)
Info: Starting encoding pass
Diagnostic: Setting video packet size to 1352
Error: Invalid codec specified for the mkv file writer.
Info: Total | Audio | Video | Avg | Min | Avg |
Min | Pre- |Audience Name
Info: kbps | kbps | kbps | FPS | FPS | QI |
QI | roll |
Info: Total Bitrate = 0 kbps
Error: Encoding failed!
Done Errors: 2 Warnings: 2
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Old 21st January 2004, 19:43   #163  |  Link
karl_lillevold
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Using Producer to rip to iPod compatible M4A

Using Producer like satori first suggested in foobar, reminded me how I set up EAC to rip to AAC encoded with Nero... So with the latest mkvtoolnix and mp4creator60, it is now possible to set up foobar or EAC to rip to iPod compatible M4A using RealProducer 10 with RA10-AAC (Coding Technologies AAC). All you have to do is to set the CLI encoder up like this:

encoder: c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe
extension: m4a
parameters: /c d:\misc\producer_10\producer.exe -i %s -o %d.mka -ad c:\audio.rpad -dv && mkvextract tracks %d.mka 1:%d.aac && mp4creator60 -aac-profile=4 -optimize -create=%d.aac %d
(no line-breaks, add/edit full paths for each tool if they are not in your $PATH)

For this to work, you need jcsston's mkvwriter in Producer's tools directory. Without mkvwriter, one additional step from RM to MKA is needed.

You may also want to tag on at the end of the long line above:
&& tg.exe %d --artist "%a" --album "%g" --track "%n" --title "%t" --genre "%m" --year %y
if you would like tags in your M4A file..


for 192 kbps AAC, use audio.rpad like this:
Code:
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<audience>
  <avgBitrate type="uint">192000</avgBitrate>
  <maxBitrate type="uint">192000</maxBitrate>
  <streams>
    <audioStream>
      <pluginName type="string">rn-audiocodec-realaudio</pluginName>
      <codecName type="string">raac</codecName>
      <codecFlavor type="uint">4</codecFlavor>
      <streamContext type="bag">
        <presentationType type="string">audio-only</presentationType>
        <audioMode type="string">music</audioMode>
      </streamContext>
    </audioStream>
  </streams>
</audience>
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Last edited by karl_lillevold; 21st January 2004 at 19:48.
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Old 22nd January 2004, 10:41   #164  |  Link
satori
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@karl_lillevold
In this process.It made .mka .aac and.m4a files.
aac file shows AAC+SBR in foobar2000.But .m4a shows only AAC.
(I never checked by iTunes since I just uninstalled)
When AAC wrapped in mpeg4 container was SBR header losted?
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Old 22nd January 2004, 17:00   #165  |  Link
karl_lillevold
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re SBR info lost: Yes, the raw ADTS .AAC format does not have a flag to store whether or not there is SBR information in a stream. This is a well known problem, and most AAC decoders (CT, Core, 3ivx) handle this by decoding the first frame to figure it out. In some cases the wrong information will be shown (Core), but still decoded correctly. 3ivx on the other hand displays HE-AAC in any case.
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Old 22nd January 2004, 18:01   #166  |  Link
bond
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well sbr/he-aac in .aac should be whereever possible avoided

only because some (not all) decoders support a workaround for these crappy files, some people might already call mka/mp4/m4a files with he-aac/sbr but without the needed flag borked...


but i guess it would solve the problem if jcsston could add support for adding this flag to .mka already via commandline (as for example mkvmerge and avi-mux gui already offer)!
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Last edited by bond; 22nd January 2004 at 18:04.
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Old 22nd January 2004, 18:29   #167  |  Link
karl_lillevold
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
but i guess it would solve the problem if jcsston could add support for adding this flag to .mka already via commandline (as for example mkvmerge and avi-mux gui already offer)!
That flag already exists. The problem is the process above goes via aac to get to mp4. If there was a way to get directly from mka to mp4, without stopping by .aac, there would not be a problem. Perhaps such a method exists.?
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Old 22nd January 2004, 18:37   #168  |  Link
bond
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ah ic (stupid me )

but no, afaik no mp4 muxer supports flagging he-aac when muxing to mp4
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Old 22nd January 2004, 23:43   #169  |  Link
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Quote:
That flag already exists. The problem is the process above goes via aac to get to mp4. If there was a way to get directly from mka to mp4, without stopping by .aac, there would not be a problem. Perhaps such a method exists.?
What about GraphEdit?
he_aac_file.mka -> Matroska Splitter -> 3ivx Muxer -> he_aac_file.mp4
If the flag is set in the mka, it should be set in the mp4, too.
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Old 23rd January 2004, 23:44   #170  |  Link
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Re Graphedit w 3ivx MP4 muxer: In theory, yes. In practice, no, at least not on my system (latest versions of all filters). Resulting file plays twice the speed, and is full of noise. Also, for the command chain above, everything needed to be on the command line, to be able to run in CLI encoders (EAC, foobar2000).
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Old 24th January 2004, 00:40   #171  |  Link
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Quote:
In theory, yes. In practice, no, at least not on my system (latest versions of all filters). Resulting file plays twice the speed, and is full of noise. Also, for the command chain above, everything needed to be on the command line, to be able to run in CLI encoders (EAC, foobar2000).
Unfortunately you´re right I have exactly the same problem. But since he_aac.rm -> RealMedia Splitter -> 3ivx Muxer -> he_aac.mp4 works fine, the problem is most likely in matroska splitter.
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Old 24th January 2004, 01:05   #172  |  Link
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HDTV RV 10 clip ?

Where can I download a well done RV10 encoded
HDTV movie clip ?

I want to compare there against some WMV9 clips.
Thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
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Old 24th January 2004, 03:28   #173  |  Link
bond
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hartiberlin,
didnt we already discuss how to correctly compare rv9/10 vs wmv9 vs mpeg-4 hdtv clips?
or was this with somone else?
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Old 25th January 2004, 05:24   #174  |  Link
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This is probably a dumb list of questions, but I am not knowledgable of the all specs between the compression technologies.

Is AAC better than RA8 for saving CD tracks? I get the impression it is. If so, what AAC compression level in RealPlayer 10 should I use to save CD tracks?

How does RV10 compare to DivX 5.1.1? Given the same source video file, do they compress to comparable size files? Does one format have advantage over another in regards to editing or streaming?
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Old 25th January 2004, 15:41   #175  |  Link
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Hi

AAC range is from 64 to 320kbps, RA8 (cook) is from 16 to 96kbps. AAC is surely better than cook for CD ripping, since you can choose 192kbps.

About RV10 vs DivX, it's all about taste. I encode mostly animes, and with RV10 I can get 60% smaller files without big quality loss.
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Old 25th January 2004, 16:13   #176  |  Link
bond
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sirber
AAC range is from 64 to 320kbps, RA8 (cook) is from 16 to 96kbps.
he-aac is also great for bitrates lower than 64kbps, in fact it was voted to bring much better quality on 64kbps than ra and wma

Quote:
AAC is surely better than cook for CD ripping, since you can choose 192kbps.
good aac codecs (like apples or nero) already bring as good as transparent quality at 128kbps
dunno about the quality real's aac codec brings...
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Old 25th January 2004, 16:36   #177  |  Link
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'Tiss true

Hey Sirber if you want to hear some comparisons of 2Ch HE and LC AAC encodes at low bitrates please check out Area 51 of my web site!

I will be adding Mp3pro, WMV9 and maybe some RA9/10 audio soon.

Cheers
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Old 25th January 2004, 16:43   #178  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally posted by bond
good aac codecs (like apples or nero) already bring as good as transparent quality at 128kbps. dunno about the quality real's aac codec brings...
We did not write our own AAC encoder. It is licensed from Coding Technologies (CT). Quality wise, it should be in the best company. I do not know the details of the various implementations, but it is my understanding Dolby, FhG, Apple, and CT share a large part of the LC AAC baseline implementations, but have each done their own individual listening based tuning.

CT invented "Plus" (HE), and the HE part of the AAC codec we license was implemented exclusively by CT, and should be the highest possible quality. CT's extensive audio experience is highly regarded. It would be interesting to have a listening test compare the LC AAC part of these codecs though, to see if the individual tuning has made a difference. It would also be nice to have the HE part compared, I think only CT and Nero have so far implemented HE...
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Old 25th January 2004, 16:53   #179  |  Link
bond
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Quote:
Originally posted by karl_lillevold
It would be interesting to have a listening test compare the LC AAC part of these codecs though, to see if the individual tuning has made a difference.
yep there are differences
check out rjamorims public listening tests:
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/aac128test/results.html

especially sorenson (fhg) vs. apple (dolby), nero is completely self made afaik

Quote:
It would also be nice to have the HE part compared, I think only CT and Nero have so far implemented HE...
Quote:
Originally posted by SeeMoreDigital
Hey Sirber if you want to hear some comparisons of 2Ch HE and LC AAC encodes at low bitrates please check out Area 51 of my web site!
I will be adding Mp3pro, WMV9 and maybe some RA9/10 audio soon.
low bitrate compares are also availble on rjamorims site:
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/64test/results.html

btw there is now a listening test about mp3 at 128kbps running, would be great if you guys join it
http://www.rjamorim.com/test/mp3-128/presentation.html

the more people participate the better the results!
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MPEG-4 ASP FAQ | AVC/H.264 FAQ | AAC FAQ | MP4 FAQ | MP4Menu stores DVD Menus in MP4 (guide)
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Last edited by bond; 25th January 2004 at 16:58.
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Old 25th January 2004, 17:03   #180  |  Link
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Re: rjamorims public listening tests: I know about those, and have taken part in most of them (well, at least one clip each). The Coding Technologies AAC codec has not been included in any of them yet, and the 64 kbps test includes only Nero-HE, even though HE was invented by CT. Perhaps as more "HE" implementations become available, there will be a separate HE test.
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