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Old 13th August 2013, 19:49   #19841  |  Link
Skankee
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@6233638:

At 4:2:0 the lines in the left are still visible, but it looks much brighter than the middle+right


http://s14.directupload.net/images/130813/3oys7o9q.jpg

http://s7.directupload.net/images/130813/d2ej3diz.jpg

http://s14.directupload.net/images/130813/27ckeana.jpg

edit: i use my (cheap) LG LCD TV for this test, so not only Kuros are affected.

Last edited by Skankee; 13th August 2013 at 19:55.
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Old 13th August 2013, 22:40   #19842  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skankee View Post
At 4:2:0 the lines in the left are still visible, but it looks much brighter than the middle+right
Thank you for testing this - I think this is what you should expect. (I was rushed earlier)

Seeing your photographs gave me an idea though. Does this work for you?

EDIT: Updated the pattern.

Updated Pattern to test for 4:2:0 here: https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...ostcount=25082



Hopefully this pattern will work to easily identify what your display is using for chroma processing.

4:4:4 and 4:2:2 should be obvious, and it seems that the image should just appear to be a solid color with 4:2:0 processing.
4:4:4 example, 4:2:2 example.

EDIT: 720p friendly pattern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Pattern
Large
Small

Ideally the text will disappear if the chroma is being downsampled.

A 4:4:4 display will show both "4:2:2" and "4:4:4"
A 4:2:2 display should only show "4:2:2"
A 4:2:0 display should not show any text.

There may be a faint outline visible, but the text should be distinct against the background. (4:4:4 example, 4:2:2 example)
I suppose I could also add 4:2:0 text, but that seems redundant.

Last edited by 6233638; 10th May 2016 at 15:54. Reason: Updated with a new pattern
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Old 13th August 2013, 23:09   #19843  |  Link
sebas_led
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Hi Madshi:

First thanks for MadVR, it's really cool.
Second, there is a chance to have MadVR as processing filter?
I want to upscale and frame rate adjust some streams. The output could be sent to a file, to a virtual camera device or to BlackMagic card.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 14th August 2013, 01:29   #19844  |  Link
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hi.
i read somewhere on this topic some problem with madVR and ati graphics drivers. this has been fixed? i want buy a laptop with i5 480m + hd5650m but after i read those comments about ati drivers i got scared.

and if that driver issue is already fixed the hd5650m is a good gpu for madVR or is better to buy a laptop with nvidia gpu so i can have CUDA?

have some urgency because i will buy a laptop in next days.

thanks

Last edited by psousa; 14th August 2013 at 05:00.
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Old 14th August 2013, 03:51   #19845  |  Link
Skankee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post


Hopefully this pattern will work to easily identify what your display is using for chroma processing.

4:4:4 and 4:2:2 should be obvious, and it seems that the image should just appear to be a solid color with 4:2:0 processing.

Both test-pattern works as intended. I like the idea that only the letters are changing their colour in the new version.

(the image looks so blue because my camera messed it up...)




(your old version: http://s1.directupload.net/images/130814/tz7cn3be.png )
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Old 14th August 2013, 05:49   #19846  |  Link
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Excellent work 6233638... Now I know for sure my LG is outputting in 4:2:2

Now with that knowledge, is there any settings in madVR that I need to set to make my image quality as high as possible?

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Old 14th August 2013, 06:32   #19847  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psousa View Post
i want buy a laptop with i5 480m + hd5650m but after i read those comments about ati drivers i got scared.
I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 14th August 2013, 07:23   #19848  |  Link
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one very stupid question, madshi. I have a 1366x768 monitor, and a fullhd tv. If i play fullhd movie (cpu decode), the cpu usage when i connect to fullhd tv will be lower than when i connect to the monitor, right? because i think cpu doesn't need to downscale image. thanks!
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Old 14th August 2013, 08:04   #19849  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBhd View Post
Excellent work 6233638... Now I know for sure my LG is outputting in 4:2:2

Now with that knowledge, is there any settings in madVR that I need to set to make my image quality as high as possible?
There aren't really any changes you need to make as far as quality is concerned, but if your display is only showing 4:2:2 chroma, then you can gain some performance by lowering the chroma scaling algorithm in madVR.

While displays may handle chroma slightly differently, on my Sony LCD Jinc 3 AR and Lanczos 3 AR look identical when it's in a mode that processes in 4:2:2 - and Bicubic 75 AR is likely going to look the same as well.

You can still tell the difference between them and anything worse (e.g. Bilinear, SoftCubic) but the differences between chroma scaling algorithms are far smaller if your display is not showing 4:4:4.

Here's some testing I did on this a while ago: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=17361
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Old 14th August 2013, 12:56   #19850  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.
hi.
thanks for the reply. the problems with ATI in your experience is with madVR in special or in general?

i had some laptops and lot of desktop ati/amd gpu and never had much problem with drivers. i ask this because the laptop i will buy is used and can have a good deal with that laptop.

im try to find laptops with similar performance nvidia gpu and the prices are much higher
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Old 14th August 2013, 13:31   #19851  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
Does this work for you?
not workee as intended anymore here, you broke my bubble

I see 4:2:2 on HDMI if I don't enable PIP:

but if I do(with a HD TV channel), I get this:

It's a 2013 sammy TV and if others can confirm that this test pattern work as it's supposed to then I'm more or less SOL with J3AR chroma..

Enabling its game mode doesn't change anything and this new test pattern doesn't really match my experience as I don't see why they'd process SD DVB-T in 4:2:2 and HD DVB-T in 4:2:0...Maybe because its onboard processor can't handle that much data, though.

I'll try the other HDMI inputs

Last edited by leeperry; 14th August 2013 at 13:37.
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Old 14th August 2013, 13:37   #19852  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6233638 View Post
There aren't really any changes you need to make as far as quality is concerned, but if your display is only showing 4:2:2 chroma, then you can gain some performance by lowering the chroma scaling algorithm in madVR.

While displays may handle chroma slightly differently, on my Sony LCD Jinc 3 AR and Lanczos 3 AR look identical when it's in a mode that processes in 4:2:2 - and Bicubic 75 AR is likely going to look the same as well.

You can still tell the difference between them and anything worse (e.g. Bilinear, SoftCubic) but the differences between chroma scaling algorithms are far smaller if your display is not showing 4:4:4.

Here's some testing I did on this a while ago: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...ostcount=17361
Thanks... my 5770 seems to handle anything I throw at it for the resolutions I run (1024x768p72, 1024x768p60) and that is with Jinc 3 AR, Jinc 3 AR and Catmull-Rom AR LL so I don't need to gain any performance.

Thanks, your insights and testing are always top shelf stuff

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Old 14th August 2013, 13:58   #19853  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leeperry View Post
not workee as intended anymore here, you broke my bubble

I see 4:2:2 on HDMI if I don't enable PIP:

but if I do(with a HD TV channel), I get this:

It's a 2013 sammy TV and if others can confirm that this test pattern work as it's supposed to then I'm more or less SOL with J3AR chroma..

Enabling its game mode doesn't change anything and this new test pattern doesn't really match my experience as I don't see why they'd process SD DVB-T in 4:2:2 and HD DVB-T in 4:2:0...Maybe because its onboard processor can't handle that much data, though.

I'll try the other HDMI inputs
My 2007 LG 720p (1024x768 rectangular pixels) still ouputs 4:2:2 even with PIP active (OTA HDTV channel in the PIP)... so not sure what your Sammy is doing

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Old 14th August 2013, 14:00   #19854  |  Link
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Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.
Considering how nVidia drivers have been behaving lately, that might not necessarily be true anymore. To be honest, my AMD based htpc runs without any worries with the stock drivers, while my current PC with an nVidia gpu often suffers driver crashes. And then there is that story with 320.18 driver causing blank screens or burning GPUs, and it's not the first time this happens.

For AMD, I'd say the biggest problem is to find a driver version that works for your setup, and it's not necessarily the newest one. So in my experience, it's pretty comparable to nVidia, I'm still using the 306.97 drivers for more stability.
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Old 14th August 2013, 14:10   #19855  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dansrfe View Post
I'd highly recommend not getting an ATI card in your laptop since you're buying a new one anyways. What you've read about ATI's driver's not being as stable as NVidia's is true based on personal experience.

I have a laptop with an ATI Mobility GPU 4570 from 2009 and built a desktop with an nvidia card and the difference in driver stability is clear.

Just my 2 cents.
I disagree. I have two Toshiba APU laptops that work great with madVR (using the latest Toshiba-supplied drivers) and I have two HTPC systems currently using HD6570 and HD7750 and they are both flawless with the Onkyo/LG combo (HDMI).

The late 12 series and the newer 13 series drivers on AMD are rock-solid with madVR.
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Old 14th August 2013, 14:44   #19856  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Soukyuu View Post
Considering how nVidia drivers have been behaving lately, that might not necessarily be true anymore. To be honest, my AMD based htpc runs without any worries with the stock drivers, while my current PC with an nVidia gpu often suffers driver crashes. And then there is that story with 320.18 driver causing blank screens or burning GPUs, and it's not the first time this happens.
Plus the fact that a bug was introduced in an nVidia driver about 4 years ago that is yet to be fixed, which causes some Source games to crash randomly when using DX10 cards.
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Old 14th August 2013, 14:52   #19857  |  Link
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Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. In my personal experience, AMD/ATI has caused more issues with their drivers then NVIDIA, especially for HTPC usage. But then i also usually run recent hardware, which drivers are usually more optimized for. My HTPC has been running just perfectly with NVIDIA, while i had some minor issues with an AMD card i used for a few month, until NVIDIA released a new generation.

But does that prove that NVIDIA drivers are better? Probably not. All i know is that the HW decoder in AMDs cards is inferior to NVIDIA (both in speed and features, eg. even in latest generations a driver had to disable 4K decoding on AMD because it was broken), but if that matters for you is only something you can decide.
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Old 14th August 2013, 15:30   #19858  |  Link
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Anecdotal evidence doesn't prove anything. In my personal experience, AMD/ATI has caused more issues with their drivers then NVIDIA, especially for HTPC usage. But then i also usually run recent hardware, which drivers are usually more optimized for. My HTPC has been running just perfectly with NVIDIA, while i had some minor issues with an AMD card i used for a few month, until NVIDIA released a new generation.

But does that prove that NVIDIA drivers are better? Probably not. All i know is that the HW decoder in AMDs cards is inferior to NVIDIA (both in speed and features, eg. even in latest generations a driver had to disable 4K decoding on AMD because it was broken), but if that matters for you is only something you can decide.
Agreed. I haven't had any driver-related issues with my HTPC as far as I know, which uses nVidia. I just have a grudge against nVidia for that 4-year-and-counting bug.
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Old 14th August 2013, 18:22   #19859  |  Link
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what i really want know is if CUDA from nvidia make lot of diference with madVR. the hd5650m have a decent performance for a laptop gpu (6700 points in 3dmark06),will not be good enought for madVR?

btw i only see 1080p movies and 720p series on a panasonic 46G20. as far i understand madVR will upscale the 720p series to 1080p right?
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Old 14th August 2013, 19:55   #19860  |  Link
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Hi madshi!
I just watched a movie a few minutes with OSD on and found several times where for about 30 sec the max rendering time was about half the average rendering time. Never seen this before as far as I can remember. Is that normal or is it maybe a bug?
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