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Old 12th September 2019, 21:22   #57381  |  Link
el Filou
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The render queue is very big (1 full second of playback), maybe this is masking the latency of using system RAM as a crutch and the rendering jitter that would result from that (that 120 ms max render time stat is frightening).
Present queue should in theory not be influenced by the rendering load, it's just there to compensate random delays that could occur at the critical time when frames need to be displayed. So you're saying if you lower it to 6 or 4, playback is less smooth?
The fact you said playback would initially turn into a slideshow with high bitrates scenes would point to decoding as the bottleneck, so in theory just upping the decoding queue should be the only thing needed. Did you try with a big decoding queue but a normal rendering/presenting?

I have given up trying to understand how the older Radeons like yours or mine work with madVR, I have seen all kinds of weird behaviour with it, sometimes bringing up the UI or pausing or seeking back completely screws up rendering times on my desktop until I pause or seek again. Sometimes it drops a frame even though the GPU is only at 60-65% reported load. I have tried all combination of Radeon control panel and madVR settings to no avail.
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Old 12th September 2019, 21:44   #57382  |  Link
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Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
The render queue is very big (1 full second of playback), maybe this is masking the latency of using system RAM as a crutch and the rendering jitter that would result from that (that 120 ms max render time stat is frightening).
Present queue should in theory not be influenced by the rendering load, it's just there to compensate random delays that could occur at the critical time when frames need to be displayed. So you're saying if you lower it to 6 or 4, playback is less smooth?
The fact you said playback would initially turn into a slideshow with high bitrates scenes would point to decoding as the bottleneck, so in theory just upping the decoding queue should be the only thing needed. Did you try with a big decoding queue but a normal rendering/presenting?

I have given up trying to understand how the older Radeons like yours or mine work with madVR, I have seen all kinds of weird behaviour with it, sometimes bringing up the UI or pausing or seeking back completely screws up rendering times on my desktop until I pause or seek again. Sometimes it drops a frame even though the GPU is only at 60-65% reported load. I have tried all combination of Radeon control panel and madVR settings to no avail.
it's probably just downclocking and then dropping, then upclock

locking powerstate in afterburner works for that.
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Old 12th September 2019, 23:44   #57383  |  Link
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If it's decided that Envy should use an Nvidia Gpu,

They might as well release Madvr as a PC KIT, some sort of HDMI pcie input card,you can stamp these out by the thousands.

Then have a PAID Madvr software version on desktop, compatible with ALL GPUS, Why make it a standalone device, it sounds like a good idea if you got a completely different hardware branch, But if it's gonna be Nvidia GPU, Madvr is already right here working all dandy like. ..

Keep it simple..

Turn the PC into a receiver.. that's fine.. and we won't require a second $2000 for a Specialized device, which does the same thing, but is less versatile.

The majority of people don't even have a living room anymore, they just sit in their rooms with a tv hooked up to PC>

The living room is dead, <let's build more living room devices ?>
Except you can't. Because your nifty little capture card won't be HDCP compliant like the Envy. Which is the whole point to be able to plug any consumer device into it. Can you jump through some hoops to strip HDCP from your sources? Maybe. Keeping 4K HDR? Again, maybe. But thus is the problem. Envy is a *LICENSED* HDCP compliant product.
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Old 13th September 2019, 00:36   #57384  |  Link
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou View Post
The render queue is very big (1 full second of playback), maybe this is masking the latency of using system RAM as a crutch and the rendering jitter that would result from that (that 120 ms max render time stat is frightening).
Present queue should in theory not be influenced by the rendering load, it's just there to compensate random delays that could occur at the critical time when frames need to be displayed. So you're saying if you lower it to 6 or 4, playback is less smooth?
The fact you said playback would initially turn into a slideshow with high bitrates scenes would point to decoding as the bottleneck, so in theory just upping the decoding queue should be the only thing needed. Did you try with a big decoding queue but a normal rendering/presenting?

I have given up trying to understand how the older Radeons like yours or mine work with madVR, I have seen all kinds of weird behaviour with it, sometimes bringing up the UI or pausing or seeking back completely screws up rendering times on my desktop until I pause or seek again. Sometimes it drops a frame even though the GPU is only at 60-65% reported load. I have tried all combination of Radeon control panel and madVR settings to no avail.
I tried many many different queue sizes and combinations. CPU queue too high was no good, GPU queue low and CPU high was no good. It was a lot of trial and error and finally settled on the 48/24/8 queue sizes (render queue of 16 was best, but that totally messed up 720p and 1080p playback... 8 is okay for all)

I just checked with AIDA64... my RAM latency is around the 60 ns mark... that's really low isn't it? Does that help when it needs to bail out the VRAM? (WOW I did not notice the 120 ms max stat! yikes!)

As for weird things with pauses/seeks on our cards, I do notice it more with render queue at 8... I never had issues with it at 4. But that is the tradeoff for me to get zero dropped frames for the 4k HDR stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
it's probably just downclocking and then dropping, then upclock

locking powerstate in afterburner works for that.
No my card never down clocks.

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Old 13th September 2019, 02:21   #57385  |  Link
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Except you can't. Because your nifty little capture card won't be HDCP compliant like the Envy. Which is the whole point to be able to plug any consumer device into it. Can you jump through some hoops to strip HDCP from your sources? Maybe. Keeping 4K HDR? Again, maybe. But thus is the problem. Envy is a *LICENSED* HDCP compliant product.
I don't see any hurdles here, if the group is already confident in building a Completely seperate device that is hdcp compliant,

NOW, all they need to do is build HALF of it for the PC Kit.
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Old 13th September 2019, 02:27   #57386  |  Link
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We already have it. My 2070 sits just above the specs for the base Envy's GPU and obviously lower than the 2080ti. While it would be nice to be able to "madvr-ify" any source, I'm happy with my HTPC right now. What would be GREAT is if the pro version of madvr would include some of the tensor core algorithms he's currently developing. madshi said this is the reason he's been *HEAVILY* hinting that people looking at new cards should go RTX. This isn't to say the AMD cards won't benefit, but, if he really does make the tensor core stuff available to us HTPC users, very exciting times are coming.

Don't get me wrong, I've been contemplating a capture card myself for 4K HDR sources, but, 1) it won't be real time like the Envy, and 2) There's likely some limitations around audio capture which has nothing at all to do with madvr. Wouldn't be as nice as an Envy, but, still beneficial IMO.
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Old 13th September 2019, 15:59   #57387  |  Link
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What would be GREAT is if the pro version of madvr would include some of the tensor core algorithms he's currently developing. madshi said this is the reason he's been *HEAVILY* hinting that people looking at new cards should go RTX.
it shouldn't just be the "pro" version of madVR that gets the tensor core treatment.

anyways...
the "best" "pro" version should not cost more than 25-30 bucks for a Lifetime license.
otherwise he wont make much money with madVR, because people wont buy it or pirate/crack it.
(just my 2 cents)
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Old 13th September 2019, 16:28   #57388  |  Link
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So you're suggesting that all the work madshi has put in to this product is only worth "25-30 bucks for a lifetime license" to you? I would disagree with that assertion. Many of us have been asking for a donation link to give him far more than that to show our appreciation. He's consistently said wait for the pro version. If you're not willing to pay for a pro version, then the free version will always be available according to madshi.
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Old 13th September 2019, 17:17   #57389  |  Link
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Has madshi ever addressed whether the Pro version will lock current features behind a pay wall? Or will the Pro version just add as-yet-unreleased functionality? FWIW, I plan on buying the Pro version either way. Just curious...
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Old 13th September 2019, 18:10   #57390  |  Link
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No, he hasn't said ANYTHING about what a "pro" version would entail or how it would be different from the free version. Only that a pro version is planned "soon(ish)" <-- his word. I would very much be interested in a pro version myself, if only to support the man who has brought such an amazing video experience to us all.
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Old 13th September 2019, 18:40   #57391  |  Link
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No, he hasn't said ANYTHING about what a "pro" version would entail or how it would be different from the free version. Only that a pro version is planned "soon(ish)" <-- his word. I would very much be interested in a pro version myself, if only to support the man who has brought such an amazing video experience to us all.
While madshi his given generously, it's important to remember that madVR (and Envy) would not be what it is without the hugely supportive community here, with many users exhaustively testing every new feature, enabling madshi to refine madVR to what it is today.

I would also be very interested in a pro version and quite happy to pay for it.
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Old 13th September 2019, 18:50   #57392  |  Link
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Yes, of course it's been a very large community effort to get madvr where it is today! Look at the dynamic tone mapping testing that's going on now. But for all the community effort that's gone into giving madshi feedback, ultimately until now it's only been him developing it. But the community....that's why he's insisting that there is always going to be a free version of madvr going forward. I can imagine the pro version to be more refined in what it offers and how it offers it. Closer (but not identical) to the Envy experience except on an HTPC. That's just my own guesswork. We shall see what his plans are. I'm ready to support it by buying a license for Pro.
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Old 13th September 2019, 22:03   #57393  |  Link
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So you're suggesting that all the work madshi has put in to this product is only worth "25-30 bucks for a lifetime license" to you? I would disagree with that assertion. Many of us have been asking for a donation link to give him far more than that to show our appreciation. He's consistently said wait for the pro version. If you're not willing to pay for a pro version, then the free version will always be available according to madshi.
i'm saying he has Envy as his premium product that came into being thanks to madVR.
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Old 13th September 2019, 22:10   #57394  |  Link
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Uh huh. And? That has nothing to do with offering a Pro version of madvr.
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Old 14th September 2019, 00:13   #57395  |  Link
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I would be more than happy to pay around 100€ for a madVR Pro version, its more than worth it ...
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Old 14th September 2019, 01:21   #57396  |  Link
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how could you judge the content of something you don't know.
you don't know what the "pro" version will bring.
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Old 14th September 2019, 01:43   #57397  |  Link
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Nope, we don't. I have enjoyed madvr for many years for free. Throwing some cash towards madshi by buying the pro version is reasonable to me, regardless of what it includes. For me it's about showing appreciation for a developer I respect. I have no doubt that the pro version will be worth it, no matter what he chooses to include. I've already been building a wish list of features and keep throwing hints at him about them. LOL But I have no expectation about what a pro version will or won't include.
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Old 14th September 2019, 02:45   #57398  |  Link
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... Throwing some cash towards madshi by buying the pro version is reasonable to me, regardless of what it includes. For me it's about showing appreciation for a developer I respect...
I fully agree.
Moreover, a paid version may also make it viable from a personal perspective to continue working on it for the next years.
Even knowing that a free version will exist, i will definitively buy the paid version when its available.
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Old 14th September 2019, 18:05   #57399  |  Link
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Finally got my Red Dragon RX 5700 XT and I am loving it! I realize it's anecdotal and there are a million variables, but I'm getting some incredible render times (~20ms for NGU High chroma and tone mapping, for example). I am SO glad I returned my reference 5700 and waited for the aftermarket 5700 XT. I am a little nervous with the recent talk of utilizing Tensor Cores, but who even knows if/when that will actually be relevant? I'll likely be a happy camper for the next couple years...
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Old 14th September 2019, 19:09   #57400  |  Link
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I don't think you AMD guys and gals have anything really to worry about. The Envy is based on the RTX cards and tensor cores, which MAY or may not trickle down into madvr at some point. However, given the freaking insane processing power of these new AMD cards, I think you're going to be able to drive awesome quality out of madvr either way. I wouldn't sweat it. And who knows what capabilities those cards could unlock going forward. I think the future looks good no matter which direction you go. The reviews you guys are giving for these new AMD cards is very positive. Much more so than any of the previous generation of cards. That's awesome!
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