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Old 13th February 2019, 18:57   #54721  |  Link
iSeries
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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Yeah it does sort of get to be a chore, for example I thought I had everything setup with 385.28, I know from reading it has correct HDR metadata. I am playing 2160p to a 2160p screen, so only Chroma and I keep that to a minimum scaling since apparently its not that big a deal,

Took my Qs down as I noticed they were jumping about, all good rock solid, I have a 12bit RGB Custom resolution all good.

To last night watching a 4K rip and I was getting presentation errors, so that ruined that. Messed about today and I think its sorted again by using D3D11 Copy Back instead of Native....well till the next time, so yeah unsure if its due to the driver that I suddenly feel the need to use now I know metadata does not work correctly with as I was using 390.77, but always seems to be something.
Give 398.11 a try, working great for me, but anything prior to this version should also be passing HDR through fine (including 390.77)
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Old 13th February 2019, 19:02   #54722  |  Link
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Give 398.11 a try, working great for me, but anything prior to this version should also be passing HDR through fine (including 390.77)
Will do cheers
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Old 13th February 2019, 19:41   #54723  |  Link
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Originally Posted by madjock View Post
Took my Qs down as I noticed they were jumping about
What does that mean?
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Originally Posted by chros View Post
I got 41 seconds with my laptop and I used it for years!
My god...
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Old 13th February 2019, 19:52   #54724  |  Link
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Did someone try Madshi's latest build and has an Oled TV? I am not sure what optimal settings might be for an oled (700 nits) :\ lots of controls...
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Old 13th February 2019, 20:07   #54725  |  Link
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Are you talking about the very latest builds with updated live tonemapping? If you need to ask that question I think it's better to wait for the next release build, because the settings in the test builds keep changing frequently depending on the feedback of the testers.
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Old 13th February 2019, 20:11   #54726  |  Link
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Are you talking about the very latest builds with updated live tonemapping? If you need to ask that question I think it's better to wait for the next release build, because the settings in the test builds keep changing frequently depending on the feedback of the testers.
Yes...
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Old 13th February 2019, 20:33   #54727  |  Link
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If you outputting HDR to display you can safely disable all those new options (maybe with exemption of dynamic clipping), as they mostly beneficial for HDR->SDR conversion.
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Old 13th February 2019, 22:52   #54728  |  Link
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Originally Posted by Charky View Post
TBH, on my 55" LG OLED C8, at couch distance, i'm not sure I could tell the difference between a native 4K movie and an 1080p NGU upscaled one.
Take a 4K SDR video downscale it to 1080 and do a comparison.. Tell us if you can see any difference. What is "couche distance" though? LOL.

Some people that are buying TVs tell me that they're sitting 3+ meters away from 32" sets.. and I'm like 0_0 How do you enjoy watching something so small from so far away? It's basically torture.
It honestly makes me mad seeing more static wall than moving picture.
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Old 14th February 2019, 00:16   #54729  |  Link
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Take a 4K SDR video downscale it to 1080 and do a comparison.. Tell us if you can see any difference. What is "couche distance" though? LOL.

Some people that are buying TVs tell me that they're sitting 3+ meters away from 32" sets.. and I'm like 0_0 How do you enjoy watching something so small from so far away? It's basically torture.
It honestly makes me mad seeing more static wall than moving picture.
I watch my 50 inch set at 2.5-3 meters, I can just barely see the difference between 1080 and 4K.

Textures will look more detailed w/4k, but even then, unless I'm LOOKING FOR IT, not a huge difference.

Games are more obvious due to aliasing difference.


OLED will probably be obsolete in the TV space in ~3 years.. The Light modulation cell IPS/VA panels will replace them.

Hopefully we get 120hz blink motion blur reduction , maybe even 165hz if it's VA.

The only trouble is this will probably require a 2000nit backlight.. because the blur reduction cuts brightness in half.
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Old 14th February 2019, 07:29   #54730  |  Link
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I watch my 50 inch set at 2.5-3 meters, I can just barely see the difference between 1080 and 4K.
A lot of these films are 2k Upconverts as they have all jumped on the bandwagon.

You just need to look at 4K demos on Youtube to see how good things can look, films are by nature toned down a lot, but a good 4K film can make all the difference, having a 65" TV helps a lot as well I think.

I watched Hitmans Bodygaurd last night and a lot of it seems out of focus and thats supposed to be a nice looking 4K film ?. The reviews do not mention this, but somethings not right with it, so yeah a lot of stuff looks worse.

Last edited by madjock; 14th February 2019 at 07:33.
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Old 14th February 2019, 08:28   #54731  |  Link
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Originally Posted by ryrynz View Post
Take a 4K SDR video downscale it to 1080 and do a comparison.. Tell us if you can see any difference. What is "couche distance" though? LOL.

Some people that are buying TVs tell me that they're sitting 3+ meters away from 32" sets.. and I'm like 0_0 How do you enjoy watching something so small from so far away? It's basically torture.
It honestly makes me mad seeing more static wall than moving picture.
I'm not saying that 4K is useless or impossible to tell apart from 1080p in itself, I'm saying that upscaling tech has become so good that, at normal viewing distance (which for me is around 2,5 meters), on the same panel, it's become hard to tell apart native 4K content and upscaled 1080p content. Maybe I could on a VP, but mine is just 1080p

On my TV, I already tried comparing 1080p (upscaled with NGU Sharp) and 2160p bluray ISOs or remuxes of the same movie. As said by someone in a previous post, I only found minor differences when I looked for them on specific shots with sharp textures (and even then, only wheen rubbing my nose on the screen). In real life, moving content, it's almost impossible.

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Originally Posted by tp4tissue View Post
Games are more obvious due to aliasing difference.
I would have told you the same a week ago, but I'm not even sure of that anymore.

I bought Mass Effect Andromeda on PS4 Pro last week to see if it was as bad as everyone said it was (spoiler alert : it's actually a very good game). The game is badly optimized and the PS4 Pro struggles with a 4K output (which is, I believe, "only" 1800p upscaled to 2160p by the console), rendering the game at less than a constant 30fps and it was driving me mad to see the game stutter. So I tried setting the PS4 Pro to output 1080p and let my LG 55C8 do the upscaling, expecting at least a slightly blurry picture I could have lived with. I didn't even get that and honestly can't tell the difference between 1800p upscaled to 2160p by the console, or 1080p upscaled to 2160p by the TV. I didn't even notice an increase in input lag...

Last edited by Charky; 14th February 2019 at 09:31.
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Old 14th February 2019, 09:23   #54732  |  Link
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I was used to watching a 120" screen at 1.5-2m. Form that I realised it was viewing angle that mattered - not screen size. When watching something with a ton of resolution that's formatted for an IMAX screen (e.g. Dunkirk) I sit 0.7m away from a 65" OLED. That gives the same viewing angle as a real IMAX Laser theatre but with real black and a ton more contrast. When you sit in pitch black and have a velvet curtain laden bat cave for a projector after an adjustment period your brain is fooled into thinking it's a huge screen. My fetish for large viewing angles has always made me interested in MadVR's NGU Sharp - and I do love it up close. From 40 degree viewing angles though, it's not worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madjock View Post

I probably speak for a lot if us when I say I mess more with the settings than actually watching full movies all the time, part of the joys and woes of tweaking things I guess.
That's exactly what I was doing prior to the Popcorn Hour A100 and before that I had a Haupaggue Show Center. I got real fed up with it. I also have plenty of dedicated players (LG's own internal player, Shield, Apple TV, VTEN for 3D) so I've told myself if my HTPC messes up when watching a movie - rather than trying to fix it on the fly I'll flip to the dedicated player. That way you only lose at max 60 seconds and don't ruin the enjoyment of your movie/tv show. Then go and fix it the next day.
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:31   #54733  |  Link
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I was used to watching a 120" screen at 1.5-2m. Form that I realised it was viewing angle that mattered - not screen size. When watching something with a ton of resolution that's formatted for an IMAX screen (e.g. Dunkirk) I sit 0.7m away from a 65" OLED. That gives the same viewing angle as a real IMAX Laser theatre but with real black and a ton more contrast. When you sit in pitch black and have a velvet curtain laden bat cave for a projector after an adjustment period your brain is fooled into thinking it's a huge screen. My fetish for large viewing angles has always made me interested in MadVR's NGU Sharp - and I do love it up close. From 40 degree viewing angles though, it's not worth it.
Yeah you're not the only one, that's why VR movie watching is a thing nowadays...

That said, I'm no ophthalmologist (or your mother ), but I'm not sure watching a panel this big so close for long periods of time is very good for your eyes (and it's certainly not what most of us would call normal viewing distance )
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Old 14th February 2019, 10:54   #54734  |  Link
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I'm not saying that 4K is useless or impossible to tell apart from 1080p in itself, I'm saying that upscaling tech has become so good that, at normal viewing distance (which for me is around 2,5 meters), on the same panel, it's become hard to tell apart native 4K content and upscaled 1080p content. Maybe I could on a VP, but mine is just 1080p
Interesting, my 55" TV is also 1080p + bt.709 and I *see* the difference between standard 1080p bluray and 4k hdr bluray (by madvr test pixelshader + ssim2d luma downscaling) from ~3 meters. Whether it's due to the deliberately destroyed FullHD bluray or not, I don't know. And this was the only (!) reason that I replaced my laptop (with an htpc).
And I have to say that previously it didn't worth for me to watch 4k hdr content with hdr2sdr 3dlut or the latest release v92.17 pixelshader: the image was not on pair with fullhd bluray.
But now, if I can, I always choose 4k hdr or 4k over fullhd content.
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Old 14th February 2019, 11:08   #54735  |  Link
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Interesting, my 55" TV is also 1080p + bt.709 and I *see* the difference between standard 1080p bluray and 4k hdr bluray (by madvr test pixelshader + ssim2d luma downscaling) from ~3 meters. Whether it's due to the deliberately destroyed FullHD bluray or not, I don't know. And this was the only (!) reason that I replaced my laptop (with an htpc).
And I have to say that previously it didn't worth for me to watch 4k hdr content with hdr2sdr 3dlut or the latest release v92.17 pixelshader: the image was not on pair with fullhd bluray.
But now, if I can, I always choose 4k hdr or 4k over fullhd content.
Well, I'm not surprised, it seems widely accepted on this forum and elsewhere that a properly downscaled UHD source will look better than the same in FHD only.

TBH I've never really looked into this because, as of recently, I didn't have the horsepower in my HTPC to properly play and downscale UHD sources.
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Old 14th February 2019, 19:30   #54736  |  Link
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I'm sure you're aware that there are a lot of charts and online calculators for viewing distance and angular resolution. I like this because it takes into account the visual acuity:

http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDens2In.html

In my case with a 65'' screen at 1.5 m I can definitely see the difference between 4k and upscaled 1080p. But yeah, the content matters, I've been watching 4k transfers of old movies and the only benefit seems to be limited to the film grain.
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Old 14th February 2019, 20:06   #54737  |  Link
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On a 55"4K OLED , 2.5M distance with just 4K res and no HDR , for me it is very noticable. Much more detail and drawing distance , add HDR in the mix and my experience is usually jaw-dropping , especially if it's not a 2k upscale UHD disc/content

It's of course very important to have the right MadVR settings (see Asmodian's High Settings and tune down where necessary, till you hit 20-30ms with smooth playback)

I finally got Tonemapping working yesterday on 'just a GTX1060' and ca't wait to push it further with a RTX2070 in 6 weeks

Try opening scene of Blue Planet II (the wave scene, starts after a min or 2)

After getting my new GPU I will get my hands dirty with a DisplayPro colorimeter and the several cailbration software that I've collecting ... can't wait !

This is very much like the 'upgraderitus with audio' , a 100x more complicated, but luckily much cheaper ;-)
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Old 14th February 2019, 23:31   #54738  |  Link
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Which deinterlacing algorithm is better to use for DVD and SD? LAV -> Yadif (25/30) or madVR (ivtc) -> "force film mode"?

Last edited by DMU; 14th February 2019 at 23:36.
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Old 14th February 2019, 23:52   #54739  |  Link
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Depends: Is it PAL or NTSC (and if NTSC: is it really interlaced or telecined)?
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Old 15th February 2019, 00:16   #54740  |  Link
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Depends: Is it PAL or NTSC (and if NTSC: is it really interlaced or telecined)?
If not difficult, can you explain to me for all cases? Thank.
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